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On the Horizon: Combat disciplines - Official discussion thread

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1 hour ago, helix said:

@thomasblair How fast (hypothetically speaking) do you think disciplines will decay? Will disciplines drop on death?

 

Once you equip them into the vessel they are consumed and permanently part of the vessel. Which means their max lifespan is the lifetime of the vessel and their min lifespan is being overwritten by a different discipline.

Only way to lose them would be to lose the vessel.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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I noticed that you didn't list runes for stats (like in ShadowBane you get the +40 int for casters). Will that be coming soon?

Will the power/damage/effect level of the rune vary with the archetype applying it? In ShadowBane a warrior could take Master of Staves and when they used the staff powers (loved the Power Block ones) when attacking they did more damage and cost less to use then if you applied the same rune to a caster character. I guess the thinking is that a warrior will always be more skill with that weapon so the rune works better for them than others.

Also, if a legionnaire takes archery can he then stay in the back, do damage to raise his Soul Power for his C ability (AoE heal)?

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Im really excited for this but it really reinforces how much I wish you had not moved from individual characters to account wide crows. I really don't like that I can have 10+ accounts and still not be able to try everything to its top potential. It was a stretch before, but 4 VIP accounts 10 accounts with 1 vip could just about cover everything. Ohh, that is unless you also want to craft/harvest.

I really wish we just had x character slots that could each train individual universal skills. And you can't really use the argument that you shouldn't be able to do everything. Because you are able, its just behind a ridiculous pay wall of needing what? 20+ accounts? With 13 AT 3x promotion classes and how many variations of discs, there are hundreds of possible characters to play. This is amazing. Don't ask me to spend thousands of dollars to do it.

The game should be either,

 

Buy to play, subscription based, or pay to play (paying to access more in game).

 

Right now it really feels like its all 3


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2 hours ago, Dakyn said:

I noticed that you didn't list runes for stats (like in ShadowBane you get the +40 int for casters). Will that be coming soon?

Will the power/damage/effect level of the rune vary with the archetype applying it? In ShadowBane a warrior could take Master of Staves and when they used the staff powers (loved the Power Block ones) when attacking they did more damage and cost less to use then if you applied the same rune to a caster character. I guess the thinking is that a warrior will always be more skill with that weapon so the rune works better for them than others.

Also, if a legionnaire takes archery can he then stay in the back, do damage to raise his Soul Power for his C ability (AoE heal)?

If you wanted to pump up Intelligence you would train up the Intelligence line in the Vessel skill tree, then craft a vessel with a focus on intelligence.

You'd get the base intelligence of the vessel (determined by vessel quality) the increased intelligence from the crafting components, and the bonus intelligence from your passive skill training. 


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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It is not as if some of us were entirely unaware of the customization potential the Discipline system held, but I think it's fair to say that seeing these details laid out in black and white has crystalized what was previously more of a nebulous hope or imagining. The fact that many of us forsee potential balance issues, only illustrates the likely depth and wealth of customization this will enable. It is a large task that the dev team has ahead of itself, to fully realize what this system could offer, and I hope for all of our sakes they pull it off!

Now I get to spend the next several months imagining what Disciplines and Weapons Druids might get access to...(shields!)

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Those memories of Shadowbane, running in the land at specific times to get the right NPC poping and get the kill, hoping to get it before another group ran into it.

And when you had it, quickly recalling before a Thief come and steal you or a group kill your carrier :wub:

Damn, can't wait to see it ingame, since some of those major will be tied to Thralls, i'm quite sure those Thralls are gonna be massively POI of themselves :)

And for balance, i'll wait until all the archetype/disciplines/promotions class are in to even bother about it.


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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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12 hours ago, ren said:

How will promotion classes compare with disciplines?  Are promotions even still part of the system?  I notice that the current Templar skill tree doesn't have the rudimentary promotion class trees, which may not be a big deal.  Or maybe it is a big deal...

As this system started to open up, it became pretty apparent that we could get a LOT more depth out of it than we expected.  Blair asked me "so what do we save for promotion classes?" and my marching orders were: nothing.  Make Disciplines as cool as we can, let's get them in and see how it changes the game experience.  My expectation, honestly, is that it's going to add a massive new element of mental exploration and theory crafting, and the payoff is going to be huge.  The current iteration combines elements of multi-classing and "feats", if you are familiar with AD&D design, two features that I find very engaging.  

After it's working, we'll adjust the plan for promotion classes accordingly.  My reasoning is that I feel like the lack of character differentiation (making meaningful choices that guide how your play your character and how effective they can be), is currently the most critical thing missing from our play experience.  Promotion classes, by design, are an advanced game mechanic -- the point is to provide additional specialization and customization for advanced players.  That does nothing to help the feeling that 'I am the same as everyone else' at the beginning and middle of your game experience.  Right now, I care a LOT more about solving that issue than I do about promotion classes.  

I'm sure we can come up with more cool stuff later for promotion classes.  It could be as simply as unlocking a few additional archetype powers, attr/skill max increases, or even adding more discipline slots... frankly, after we get this system in, we'll see where THIS design is lacking and that will probably influence what we do with Promotions.

Todd

ACE

 


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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17 hours ago, Jah said:

You need special Thralls to make the Disciplines. That could create hotspots in exactly the same way, even if you have to do some crafting after you hunt the Thrall.

I hope so, anyway. Discipline hunting was great fun in SB.

This is correct.

Todd

ACE

 


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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Just now, jtoddcoleman said:

As this system started to open up, it became pretty apparent that we could get a LOT more depth out of it than we expected.  Blair asked me "so what do we save for promotion classes?" and my marching orders were: nothing.  Make Disciplines as cool as we can, let's get them in and see how it changes the game experience.  My expectation, honestly, is that it's going to add a massive new element of mental exploration and theory crafting, and the payoff is going to be huge.  The current iteration combines elements of multi-classing and "feats", if you are familiar with AD&D design, two features that I find very engaging.  

After it's working, we'll adjust the plan for promotion classes accordingly.  My reasoning is that I feel like the lack of character differentiation (making meaningful choices that guide how your play your character and how effective they can be), is currently the most critical thing missing from our play experience.  Promotion classes, by design, are an advanced game mechanic -- the point is to provide additional specialization and customization for advanced players.  That does nothing to help the feeling that 'I am the same as everyone else' at the beginning and middle of your game experience.  Right now, I care a LOT more about solving that issue than I do about promotion classes.  

I'm sure we can come up with more cool stuff later for promotion classes.  It could be as simply as unlocking a few additional archetype powers, attr/skill max increases, or even adding more discipline slots... frankly, after we get this system in, we'll see where THIS design is lacking and that will probably influence what we do with Promotions.

Todd

ACE

 

 

 

Without Promotion classes, or with a limited Promotion skilltree. How do you plan on keeping players engaged over a long period of time, especially those that usually only play 1-2 Classes. If people are able to craft most of the desired Disciplines already in their first campaign and ultimately have a decked out Archetype, is there any replayability left on the table except stat-padding and min/max'ing in the skilltree? What happens when you reach the end of the skilltree on your desired Archetype?

 

I think these are legitimate questions regarding the longevity of the game, and the progression of classes.

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3 minutes ago, zinnie said:

I think these are legitimate questions regarding the longevity of the game, and the progression of classes.

 

Of course they are legitimate questions!  Absolutely. but they are also secondary concerns, our focus right now needs to making the base game as solid as possible, right?  Once we have a solid base to work from, we can always add mechanics to increase longevity and retention.  

(and fwiw, the sheer depth of the character advancement system with classes/traits/disciplines/etc in SB allowed allowed for a HUGE degree of experimentation, which itself became a big driver of replayability.  You'd build a character and be pretty happy with him -- until you saw a combination someone else did, and it made you think that maybe your current guy would be just a little bit cooler if you have taken X instead of Y...)

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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42 minutes ago, jtoddcoleman said:

My reasoning is that I feel like the lack of character differentiation (making meaningful choices that guide how your play your character and how effective they can be), is currently the most critical thing missing from our play experience.  

 

 

Your recognition of this is going to make @coolwaters so happy


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1 minute ago, coolster50 said:

@jtoddcoleman How do Disciplines interact with advantages and disadvantages? I thought they would've been next on the chopping block after the implementation of vessels.

...they should be a subset of the functionality that we are building to support Disciplines.  Once disciplines are in, we'll need to take a pass over that GDD (and the A/D list) to see what changes will be required.  but I don't expect that system to be as strongly impacted as Promotions will likely be.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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22 minutes ago, jtoddcoleman said:

 

(and fwiw, the sheer depth of the character advancement system with classes/traits/disciplines/etc in SB allowed allowed for a HUGE degree of experimentation, which itself became a big driver of replayability.  You'd build a character and be pretty happy with him -- until you saw a combination someone else did, and it made you think that maybe your current guy would be just a little bit cooler if you have taken X instead of Y...)

 

 

This is true but it was also much quicker to build things. I think the passive training system is going to be extremely prohibitive on this end because of the insane amount of hours/days/months/years it actually takes to train things.


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13 minutes ago, Phylor the Jester said:

 

This is true but it was also much quicker to build things. I think the passive training system is going to be extremely prohibitive on this end because of the insane amount of hours/days/months/years it actually takes to train things.

But we are talking about vessels, not crows. So yes, you cannot just jump to another AT, but you can change your AT build relatively quickly.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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