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Shadowbane 2.0

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7 minutes ago, mythx said:

Well if u have 1 group of skilled players - they had a serious advantage in the old outdated SB game - when the group was coordinated. However the main difference about an actually skilled player and @VIKINGNAIL. I can go so far and say ignore e-sport on a pc - ignore twitch-reflex skills in fps games, and how many hours u have spent in league since season 1 related to click a mouse button, and how good u can time your hot keys to land powers is not a real sport to me. ^_^

You don't have to accept esports as a real sport, they still require a lot of skill. 

If you know NHL ice hockey, @VIKINGNAIL. Rick Nash from New York Rangers - he don`t tweet or write how skilled he is in ice hockey, nor do S. Crosby from Pengs - the media always focus on all that stuff related to stats, goals, assist, accuracy in that sport. They know they are good quality players in NHL - and most who play hockey in that skill level competition or are lucky enough to be drafted by NHL orgs at 17 years old or younger kids are all highly world skilled - world talented players in that sport.

And it matter less how good u are when a new mmo like this got a healthy population, because your 10 guys, or 5 now obviously in CF - since that is the current group size limit are world champs in an arena event in the same game like SB or now CF - they will get rolled fast with a much larger numbers in chaotic battles without allies. 

Yea and it would be cool if the game had a high skill-ceiling and didn't have a low skill-ceiling and didn't become about sheer numbers.

- It`s as @PaleOne mentioned your 10 guys early in year 2003 was a non factor, buddy. Because allies meant something in an open world sandbox pvp world and in a siege game - (the total amount of friendly/allied players matters.)  And that`s the charm of mmo`s like SB, Darkfall, and now in CF soon new chapters. All players are playing no matter how good they are skill wise, and related to game knowledge and your mechanical skill level hence remove the skill progression in next tests - so all players can get access to end game skills and powers which will result in a better quality product in pvp, ACE.

My guild didn't consist of 10 guys, this is just another narrative that people run with for no reason.  They see "dominated 10vs10 fight nights" and assume that it was a 10 man guild.  If all we did was run over every single group we came across in the open world, and sat there as the tip of the spear for the nation dominating the server where anyone relevant in mmorpg pvp history at the time decided to roll, what more can be said?  You see the problem here is that some of the people glorifying shadowbane, are actively playing in CF right now, you see their videos and their streams, and you see them struggle with even basic coordination.  Then they talk about how skillful and tactical shadowbane was and you have to wonder what their threshold for skillful is.  If someone's deepest level of coordination is "go in, retreat, focus this player" then they aren't very skilled.  Compare that to someone who is doing something like a run boost for their teammate mid round in a pro CS match.  Night and day level of coordination, precision, communication, and overall skill.   

And most of those high end skill wise players especially challenger players and e-sport players - they don`t have time to play mmo`s at all, because league take all their spare time. If you`ve couple of months break in that game without being updated to the latest in-game patch - u will feel like a nub again even though you`ve over 5k hours in that game. And most of the skilled players in league are aware about this or at least have played some rank games. :) 

This is actually untrue, they play other games to relax, because the main games they play have become like jobs to them.  This is why you will see players like c9 shroud (pro cs player) playing pubg. 

 

 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It`s not untrue - league is a job for them - QTPie play (7-8) hours a day in league on twitch, of course, he can play other games. I`m just saying those who are or was in an e-sport org. use mainly their time dedicated to that game, because of `competition`.. 

 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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13 minutes ago, mythx said:

It`s not untrue - league is a job for them - QTPie play in (7-8) hours a day, of course he can play other games. I`m just saying those who are or was in an e-sport org. use mainly their time dedicated to that game, because `competition`. 

 

Ok yes most people spend more time working their job than playing other games, but their job is their job, and playing games for fun is different.  And? 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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14 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

I'm still waiting to find out which guild VN ran with in SB (assuming he actually played) and on which servers.

He said he ran with Nurfed as a part of rolling 30's.

 

I don't remember him.

I do remember you, Herog and a few others

( If I only had all my old corpse screenshots)


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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16 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

He said he ran with Nurfed as a part of rolling 30's.

 

I don't remember him.

I do remember you, Herog and a few others

( If I only had all my old corpse screenshots)

I think the fascinating thing about these types of situations is that I've never hid that, but if I don't answer some random when he asks it again for the millionth time he gets to run with this crazy narrative that I'm dodging.  And I just find it so hilarious how people would rather be governed by their biases than to actually inform themselves.

It's also fascinating when it comes to the concept of skill-ceilings because you can tell which players are careful about knowing what they are talking about and trying to develop an expertise on something, and which just have this very impulsive perception of the world and don't bother to do their research. 

This literally never translates well into any competitive game as top players always know to do their research (when the time is right) and impulsively riding assumptions is the quickest way to get beaten.

I also find it fascinating that in your case for example, you claim you went off to avoid the real pvp server at launch, so that you could go fight 60 vs 300 or whatever, and then you had to get corrected that that force of 300 you claimed, was never higher than 100.

I think instead of taking a step back and thinking "whoa how is it that i distorted a number to 300 when it was less than 100" you just kind of went "oh well whatever" and moved on.

Top pvpers strive for perfection, precision, and dominance.  I think this is why the lackadaisical approach of people that stayed within the realm of a very tiny game is so concerning.  Yet somehow people think they are hardcore pvpers when they exhibit none of the actual qualities of top pvpers. 

I just hope that crowfall manages to give the very best pvpers a campaign to play on, and that not everything is continually softened for pseudo-tryhard playstyles.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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8 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

He said he ran with Nurfed as a part of rolling 30's.

 

I don't remember him.

I do remember you, Herog and a few others

( If I only had all my old corpse screenshots)

I vaguely remember Nurfed...more for a couple if memory serves where the BF/Husband passed away. Not much else frankly. I certainly remember you, Ren, Bonedancer, Angus, Tkiam, Kirel, Gobs... those were fun times...  Given Vikingnail's posts...I think it's clear he only played on Scorn...and therefore knows little to nothing of what Shadowbane truly became. More's the pity.

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I think it's also important to note that while some people try to preach the greatness of the political and social elements of SB, those that thrive in those situations are the ones that can objectively approach events with a cold and calculated point of view.

People that are prone to let bias govern their perception too much, or just flat out imagine narratives must be how they HOPE they are instead of how they actually are, do not have the skillset of the puppetmasters that excel in social and political elements within games.

An example and funny anecdote, was when I kept calling facerip my good friend and guildmate on the forum, and that ended with him getting pked by a group of winterblades because they had been triggered so hard by me that they were desperately searching for me through any perceived associations they thought I had fostered in game. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I`m done debating this @VN in this topic. 

And.. My point is skill level require in-game knowledge and a huge amount of time dedicated for a game u like to compete in. You can`t have the exact same template skill set in CF to get a fair duel, because u will always have Rng stats on weapons and armor, crits and procs in % - and random stats is opposite of a skilled competition like league. I know league have crit % damage items too, but I know it`s much better to rely on pure dps items and armor piercing, and cooldown reduction, attack speed, at least in rank play sessions. 

I`ve watched Shroud a little in Player unknowns battlegrounds, but the BR game has too much Rng with their loot system, an mmo like CF has way too much Rng - so hard to get a equally challenged competition, but CF is not designed for an elo/rank system at all, it`s a large scale open world combat system.

Crowfall will never be that, it`ll be a great game for unexpected or planed huge epic battles - fun, cautious pvp centric open world pvp focused game based on all the differences you`ve in an mmo. And T. Blair carrot has similar pattern like the old sci-fi EvE online space game - and young boys/girls follow the skill progression like a good tasty carrot/apple if u like, because it`s fun to unlock new powers in CF and explore it. 

- And it`s a fun game to play with friends due to the large scale, and fun is important aspect even though it can be rough for some new guilds who are not experienced with open world sandbox environment. So for those it`s an almost new experience for sure and hopefully they enjoy the experience.  

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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4 minutes ago, mythx said:

I`m done debating this @VN in this topic. 

And.. My point is skill level require in-game knowledge and a huge amount of time dedicated for a game u like to compete in. You can`t have the exact same template skill set in CF to get a fair duel, because u will always have Rng stats on weapons and armor, crits and procs in % - and random stats is opposite of a skilled competition like league. I know league have crit % damage items too, but I know it`s much better to rely on pure dps items and armor piercing, and cooldown reduction, attack speed, at least in rank play sessions. 

I`ve watched Shroud a little in Player unknowns battlegrounds, but the BR game has too much Rng with their loot system, an mmo like CF has way too much Rng - so hard to get a equally challenged competition, but CF is not designed for an elo/rank system at all, it`s a large scale open world combat system.

Crowfall will never be that, it`ll be a great game for unexpected or planed huge epic battles - fun, cautious pvp centric open world pvp focused game based on all the differences you`ve in an mmo. And T. Blair carrot has similar pattern like the old sci-fi EvE online space game - and young boys/girls follow the skill progression like a good tasty carrot/apple if u like, because it`s fun to unlock new powers in CF and explore it. 

- And it`s a fun game to play with friends due to the large scale, and fun is important aspect even though it can be rough for some new guilds who are not experienced with open world sandbox environment. So for those it`s an almost new experience for sure and hopefully they enjoy the experience.  

Game knowledge is not a skill, application of knowledge is a skill, and the existence of RNG is not a reason to lower a skill-ceiling. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I`m bored. :) A lot of random elements in pvp consider crits/procs require less skills, but if u pvp me in league @VN in bot lane on a bot lane champ - u will always have counter picks, meta to consider in such a duel. But if we are both playing for example Tristana champ in 1 lane - u will see player skill to that particular champ with your knowledge in that champ and experience - how many games u have with Trist etc will be cruicial for u in that duel.

I had 25/2/7 on twitch in a normal draft mode in league match yesterday, or 18/3/12 on tristana earlier today in normal draft mode 5v5 competition, but I moslty play for fun in that game even though I`ve probably 100 + games with Tristana champ.

 

 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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People enjoy different aspects, skill can be measured in different ratio's. The so called best players usually do not excel in other areas, many high ranked 3's often got their sh!t pushed in when they went to 5's and so on. I've watched the best 8 mans in DAoC completely fail at siege and yet in open field they would dominate 10X their numbers. The debate is moot because different aspects require a different set of skills which are no less or more skillful than another area except in your own head. It come down to what X player enjoys, if thats sieging then they strive to be the best at those tactics which are usually completely different then tactics used in an arena or open field environment which in turn are also a different set of skills from one another. 

Debating such a thing is 100% pointless because it's all based on perspective and not reality. 

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3 hours ago, PaleOne said:

I'm a big fan Col John Boyd, Miyamoto Musashi, Heinz Gunderian and Erwin Rommel..

If you look at the people I mentioned, there's a clear theme. :)

Guderian's Panzer Leader is great, as are the books I have on Musashi and Rommel. I've never read Boyd, but I'll add him to my to-do list. If I were expanding beyond my previously aforementioned theme, Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars and Xenophon's March of the Ten Thousand would've definitely made the cut - and if I were delving into non-first hand accounts/personal authorship, Tecumseh would have absolutely made the cut, as would the great Genghis Khan and Shingen Takeda.

We might have to swap some good reads in another forum.


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55 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I think the fascinating thing about these types of situations is that I've never hid that, but if I don't answer some random when he asks it again for the millionth time he gets to run with this crazy narrative that I'm dodging.  And I just find it so hilarious how people would rather be governed by their biases than to actually inform themselves.

Honestly, Nurfed was such a non-factor in the days of early SB, I thought your post on it from two years ago in the "has never been beaten" thread was pure sarcasm.

How many trees did you guys burn down after the breakup of your R30 overlords?

Edited by vandarr

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4 minutes ago, vandarr said:

Honestly, Nurfed was such a non-factor in the days of early SB, I thought your post on it from two years ago in the "has never been beaten" thread was pure sarcasm.

How many trees did you guys burn down after the breakup of your R30 overlords?

Beat literally everyone, called non-factor.  Ok

Thanks for making my point though.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 minutes ago, vandarr said:

If you look at the people I mentioned, there's a clear theme. :)

Guderian's Panzer Leader is great, as are the books I have on Musashi and Rommel. I've never read Boyd, but I'll add him to my to-do list. If I were expanding beyond my previously aforementioned theme, Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars and Xenophon's March of the Ten Thousand would've definitely made the cut - and if I were delving into non-first hand accounts/personal authorship, Tecumseh would have absolutely made the cut, as would the great Genghis Khan and Shingen Takeda.

We might have to swap some good reads in another forum.

Shhhh. Send me your recommendations in a PM, I will reply with my own :)?


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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28 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Game knowledge is not a skill, application of knowledge is a skill, and the existence of RNG is not a reason to lower a skill-ceiling. 

Learning the game is a skill, however.


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Just now, vandarr said:

Learning the game is a skill, however.

Some might value it as a skill, if it is hard for them to learn games.  It's actually relatively easy though. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Beat literally everyone, called non-factor.  Ok

Thanks for my point though.

You beat all 50k people subscribed in the first month?


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Just now, vandarr said:

You beat all 50k people subscribed in the first month?

You mean the 50k that were subscribed after most left a few months later into the game since the first month was free? 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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