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Shadowbane 2.0

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sooooo twitch gaming is skill...but strategic knowledge based gaming is isnt....got it

go back to your PlayStation controller and stay away from PC games. that's the thinking that has dumb down rpg's and MMO's in recent years.


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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4 hours ago, hillbilly said:

sooooo twitch gaming is skill...but strategic knowledge based gaming is isnt....got it

go back to your PlayStation controller and stay away from PC games. that's the thinking that has dumb down rpg's and MMO's in recent years.

Not really sure anyone ever indicated this, but having both skills is much more skillful than having only one.

Also I am not really sure why anyone that values twitch skill would go to consoles over pc games. 

Also the thing that dumbed down MMOs is actually convenience-oriented and generally unskilled gamers expecting the challenges to come down to their level instead of them rising to the challenge.

This is actually the same mentality of those that can not embrace games that are both tactically and mechanically deep.  They don't want to have to be good mechanically or tactically so they expect the game to be dumbed down in whatever way helps them flourish. 

It gets even worse when people that THINK they are mechanically skilled, or tactically skilled, are actually not very good, but only want a game to be as deep as they can handle and not more. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Not really sure anyone ever indicated this, but having both skills is much more skillful than having only one.

Also I am not really sure why anyone that values twitch skill would go to consoles over pc games. 

Also the thing that dumbed down MMOs is actually convenience-oriented and generally unskilled gamers expecting the challenges to come down to their level instead of them rising to the challenge.

This is actually the same mentality of those that can not embrace games that are both tactically and mechanically deep.  They don't want to have to be good mechanically or tactically so they expect the game to be dumbed down in whatever way helps them flourish. 

It gets even worse when people that THINK they are mechanically skilled, or tactically skilled, are actually not very good, but only want a game to be as deep as they can handle and not more. 

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On 6/7/2017 at 3:27 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

How often did SB have 120+ vs 120+ battles?  Wintergrasp had them every other hour and each battlegroup was hosting its own wintergrasp, let alone multiple instances of it on populated battlegroups. 

I can't recall a single SB battle that was 120 vs 120, the highest I ever saw was 80 vs 140.

LMAO. You're such a neurotic newb scrub, who appears to be irreparably butt-hurt about the fact that he achieved no notoriety in SB. Seriously, it's like you have post-traumatic stress disorder from some failure(s) or shortcoming(s) related to Shadowbane. All of your posts about Shadowbane are the same, and the last time I checked this forum around 11 months ago you were spamming this forum with the same idiocy. Seriously, give it a break, get some therapy, or maybe just go to the beach. And get good.

The reason you "can't recall a single SB battle that was 120 vs. 120" was evidently because you never truly played on a competitive, heavily populated server. It's okay, though, as most players who quit within the first 6 months or so of the game's release were in the same boat (and it's clear to me that your alleged abundance of experience within the Shadowbane universe was limited to a few months on some server before tactics in the game were even remotely close to being fully developed). In all likelihood, you probably quit the game long before 100% of guilds were even using voice comm, and even before the common usage of spec groups. As for the 120 vs. 120 thing, in fact the vast majority of sieges on the Vengeance server, after all of the server migrations were completed,  far exceeded these arbitrarily determined magical numbers. After EB formed its second alliance, it was absolutely necessary for anyone who wanted to take a shot at them to bring more than those numbers to bane after bane. I bet even the majority of the PKI vs. EB et al. banes involved numbers like 150+ vs. 150+. This isn't an exaggeration either, and most people who played on the server were well aware of the numbers involved. One of the last banes my nation defended against (before CCRs forcibly "retired" the guild crest/guild name thereby causing us to temporarily switch servers), two separate multinational alliances (KGB/KoA/et al. + EB/TSL/ML/TP/et al.) tacitly cooperated to ensure that the numbers of the force holding the city and bane-stone against my nation exceeded 200, and that's likewise no exaggeration. Our force was considerably smaller because of our failure to build alliances with many of the recent migrant nations but I recall that my nation alone back then could still field 5.5-6 groups and this was even after my nation had just recently released 5-6 groups of sub-guilds b/c of ‘identity issues’ (directly prior to this, and for a brief period of time, my nation had formed a "Northern Federation" zerg that alone could field 120). The Vengeance server at its peak was getting 1500+ pop and experiencing all sorts of interesting server latency/outage issues.

Notwithstanding that, attaining such numbers was by no means “unusual” in the SB universe. Even on the Treachery server, a release server with relatively moderate/smaller population numbers, I’m sure there were at least a few banes during the earlier CoS wars where one or both of the alliances involved broke 100. At the very end of the server, when server population was at its very lowest, a “Chaotic Front” coalition nation was formed to fight the KGB/TSL/ML/et al. alliance and both sides regularly fielded 70+. Again, this was at a time when server pop was averaging 250-300, so you can imagine how easy it would be to double those numbers on both sides with the politicking involved in warfare on servers averaging 500 pop (the “moderate” size, at the time).

Long story short, your lack of experience and outright ignorance is telling; you don't know wtf you're talking about,


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Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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On 6/9/2017 at 9:59 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

My guild at the time of WoW launch, Talons of Chaos was filled with top tier SB names most would recognize from the glory days of Vengeance.  Eastre, Exarch, Rolp, Sabotage, Lotus, Kraxx, Dru2 and more that my aged brain forgets.  We played WoW for 6 weeks to two months and dominated any and all combat and it was a server so populated it had queues to log in that could stretch hours.  WoW PVP was boring, easy and pointless.   All the builds were the same, there was absolutely no consequences to to anything. 

 

 

When I got onto WoW the second time the PvP and GvG was so ridiculously easy, in BGs, Arenas, and otherwise, that it was almost hilarious. I think I also played at a time when Hunters were slightly OP and I swear that any half-decent Shadowbane rogue player (which ironically I wasn't one of) who understood even slightly the "kiting" concept could have dominated with the same character. I recall that it was similar to playing an SB Huntress but with pets that would root and stun for you and where you could run around and just mash buttons for critical hits. Then you add in the fact that the overwhelming majority of WoW players didn't even have a scintilla of understanding of how to react in PvP situations; not only were they passive but they were generally slow and couldn't even qualify as carebear zerg fodder in SB. Seriously, just imagine trying to command such players in a single siege, let alone a war that lasts more than a month.


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Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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On 6/9/2017 at 10:45 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

Do you perhaps have any articles that talk about your guild from that period?  I know there are many articles that talk about my guild in shadowbane from all the way back in 2003, so I am sure if you dominated in WoW there would be some articles about it from 2004/2005. 

ROFL! Really? Unless you're claiming to be some nobody scrub who tagged to one of the guilds from Scorn who were talked about in articles for a brief period regarding the havoc they wreaked during server hacking I have to call BS on the "I know there are many articles that talk about my guild in shadowbane from all the way back in 2003." I mean, c'mon kid, do you even understand the words that you are using here? I'm not one to throw around the "narcissist" label lightly as it's typically used by people who don't actually understand the technical definition, but the person who said that may have hit the nail on the head. Not only are you clearly self-obsessed with your purported on-line game glory, but you apparently lack the capacity to genuinely reflect on the substance of your boastful claims and are completely immune to the tinge of guilt or embarrassment that normal people feel when caught in an outright lie or when a glorifying fabrication is just completely wrong in its details with no connection to reality. Let's break it down for you so you truly understand what I mean here. You said that you "know" there are "many articles" that talk about "your guild" in Shadowbane from all the way back in 2003. Now, a normal person with just a scintilla of caution (and general self-awareness) would tend to avoid using such extreme verbiage because it can be so easily refuted or contradicted, at least in technical terms. More specifically, a normal veteran from Shadowbane would tend to stray from such verbiage simply because I honestly don't think there were any individual SB guilds that were ever talked about in many "articles" (meaning what normal people mean by "article" as opposed to a loose, 'democratic,' and all-inclusive definition of the term...)

 

But you said it, not I. Let's see the many articles!


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Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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MaT, he claims to have been in the R30s on Scorn, exactly as you indicated in the above. Per another post on these forums he made:

On 1/28/2016 at 4:07 PM, VIKINGNAIL said:

If you didn't play on scorn you weren't very relevant.


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11 hours ago, managainsttime said:

ROFL! Really? Unless you're claiming to be some nobody scrub who tagged to one of the guilds from Scorn who were talked about in articles for a brief period regarding the havoc they wreaked during server hacking I have to call BS on the "I know there are many articles that talk about my guild in shadowbane from all the way back in 2003." I mean, c'mon kid, do you even understand the words that you are using here? I'm not one to throw around the "narcissist" label lightly as it's typically used by people who don't actually understand the technical definition, but the person who said that may have hit the nail on the head. Not only are you clearly self-obsessed with your purported on-line game glory, but you apparently lack the capacity to genuinely reflect on the substance of your boastful claims and are completely immune to the tinge of guilt or embarrassment that normal people feel when caught in an outright lie or when a glorifying fabrication is just completely wrong in its details with no connection to reality. Let's break it down for you so you truly understand what I mean here. You said that you "know" there are "many articles" that talk about "your guild" in Shadowbane from all the way back in 2003. Now, a normal person with just a scintilla of caution (and general self-awareness) would tend to avoid using such extreme verbiage because it can be so easily refuted or contradicted, at least in technical terms. More specifically, a normal veteran from Shadowbane would tend to stray from such verbiage simply because I honestly don't think there were any individual SB guilds that were ever talked about in many "articles" (meaning what normal people mean by "article" as opposed to a loose, 'democratic,' and all-inclusive definition of the term...)

 

But you said it, not I. Let's see the many articles!

My guild won every single 10v10 fight night.  We were the tip of the spear in r30s. 

I am sorry that makes you feel insecure that my guild was not only famous in shadowbane when it was at its most populated, but also went on to become one of the most famous guilds of vanilla wow.

Meanwhile when I listen to you speak of WoW it really comes off as someone that never even stepped foot in arena.  Let alone achieved a high rank in it. 

Undefeated in shadowbane whether it was 10v10 or 10v100+.

2900+ rating in wow arena. 

Top 20 NA in sc2.

etc etc...

What competitive experience do you have?

I don't really like bragging but I just find it so bizarre with how big competitive gaming has become, there are still people stuck in shadowbane fantasy land where that game took skill, when in reality the skill-ceiling in shadowbane was quite low. 

Go try some real competitive games, achieve a high rank in them, it will give you better perspective on what skill is in game.  Please don't talk to me about skill in shadowbane when you are coordinating at a snail's pace, meanwhile people were sitting there in gw1 qknocking with razor's edge coordination and timing with one another.

I certainly don't want crowfall to be another low skill-ceiling game like shadowbane was.  To me it is a complete fail to have pvp games that don't require much skill, being the best at something like that means very little.  The game should have a high skill-ceiling, draw in a ton of talented pvpers, and then people can fight for pride and glory and know that they actually did something skillful.  Instead of playing on some emulator trying to convince themselves they did something skillful while there are people out there in other games exhibiting much greater feats.  I'd rather crowfall become THE pvp mmo, where everyone knows that if you want to prove something in that sphere it has to be done in crowfall.

I can't imagine anyone that is truly competitive actually wanting the game to not draw in the best mmo pvpers.  Though I do get the vibe from some people on these forums that they would rather just play another small pop game with the same people they've been playing with and against since 2003 and don't really want to see where they stand against better competition.

 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

What competitive experience do you have?

I don't really like bragging but I...

I'd assume you probably don't have much competitive experience yourself.  It's very possible you were part of a competitive guild. But that doesn't necessarily mean you were a "MLG" player. 

The biggest give that you probably haven't seen much if any competitive experience is  this sentence. 

1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Go try some real competitive games, achieve a high rank in them, it will give you better perspective on what skill is in game. 

This is a very silly statement. A decent amount of games in the competitive scene are very simple in design, and realistically don't require a great deal of skill to play or achieve a high rank in them.

But as for what skill in games actually is... It's just a simple mix of game knowledge, player apm, and team coordination. nothing more really. If you do well in one of those three you generally can achieve a high rank in a game.

If Crowfall wants to have an active pvp environment all it has to do is reward each of those three and it should draw in a decent crowd.

1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I can't imagine anyone that is truly competitive actually wanting the game to not draw in the best mmo pvpers. 

I wouldn't mind the game not drawing the best mmo pvpers... mostly because I have no clue what you mean by the statement. I mean vVv from GW2, TSM from LoL, and Drive from WoW could all come to the Crowfall... But that wouldn't translate into them suddenly being the best crowfall pvpers on day 1 simply by existing on the server. As they all lack at least one of the three parts of skill to the game...  Game knowledge. They wouldn't know that Myrm Taste for blood stacks off multiple types of bleed, nor that certain classes can achieve near unkillable levels of survival. They wouldn't know that duelist rapid shot is actually the most powerful ability in the game by far, but doesn't function. (with proper gear and training it deals almost 10k dmg if it functioned) And without that knowledge... Veteran groups would more then likely roll over them with better team comps , builds, and positioning learned from game knowledge.

Myself... I'd prefer people who just enjoy the game and are down to earth to be honest. The less uptight the better. 

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27 minutes ago, SirGeorge said:

 

I'd assume you probably don't have much competitive experience yourself.  It's very possible you were part of a competitive guild. But that doesn't necessarily mean you were a "MLG" player. 

The biggest give that you probably haven't seen much if any competitive experience is  this sentence. 

This is a very silly statement. A decent amount of games in the competitive scene are very simple in design, and realistically don't require a great deal of skill to play or achieve a high rank in them.

But as for what skill in games actually is... It's just a simple mix of game knowledge, player apm, and team coordination. nothing more really. If you do well in one of those three you generally can achieve a high rank in a game.

If Crowfall wants to have an active pvp environment all it has to do is reward each of those three and it should draw in a decent crowd.

I wouldn't mind the game not drawing the best mmo pvpers... mostly because I have no clue what you mean by the statement. I mean vVv from GW2, TSM from LoL, and Drive from WoW could all come to the Crowfall... But that wouldn't translate into them suddenly being the best crowfall pvpers on day 1 simply by existing on the server. As they all lack at least one of the three parts of skill to the game...  Game knowledge. They wouldn't know that Myrm Taste for blood stacks off multiple types of bleed, nor that certain classes can achieve near unkillable levels of survival. They wouldn't know that duelist rapid shot is actually the most powerful ability in the game by far, but doesn't function. (with proper gear and training it deals almost 10k dmg if it functioned) And without that knowledge... Veteran groups would more then likely roll over them with better team comps , builds, and positioning learned from game knowledge.

Myself... I'd prefer people who just enjoy the game and are down to earth to be honest. The less uptight the better. 

You seem to overvalue game knowledge.  It's pretty easy to learn how things interact in a game, decision making and mechanics are the real skill. 

Anyway it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't mind not drawing in the best mmo pvpers, but to me that simply isn't a competitive mentality.

The game is specifically designed so that multiple rulesets can attract pvpers of all shapes and sizes, there is no reason for them to soften the dregs bands for uncompetitive pvpers.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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17 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You seem to overvalue game knowledge.  It's pretty easy to learn how things interact in a game, decision making and mechanics are the real skill. 

Anyway it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't mind not drawing in the best mmo pvpers, but to me that simply isn't a competitive mentality.

The game is specifically designed so that multiple rulesets can attract pvpers of all shapes and sizes, there is no reason for them to soften the dregs bands for uncompetitive pvpers.

"Its seems you over value game knowledge." He then proceeds to list two parts of game knowledge it as the "real skill".

I mean... I get it your a forum... "Debate enthusiast".. lets say.

But whatever makes you happy you very silly individual. 

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38 minutes ago, SirGeorge said:

"Its seems you over value game knowledge." He then proceeds to list two parts of game knowledge it as the "real skill".

I mean... I get it your a forum... "Debate enthusiast".. lets say.

But whatever makes you happy you very silly individual. 

I don't think you understand what skill is. Skill is not the possession of knowledge, skill is the application of knowledge, and in games you need to apply knowledge that is much broader than any single specific game.  You can not be a top player without this ability. 

Mechanical skill  (aka your mechanics) is not "game knowledge" to a specific game, it is the ability to execute your commands efficiently.  Not everyone is capable of typing fast, or hitting keys in sequences quickly or cleanly, or aiming properly, etc etc.

Decision making is not a part of game knowledge, game knowledge is a part of decision making, but decision making is much more than that, it's about whether you can actually use things like game knowledge, as well as other types of knowledge that are much more universal than specific game knowledge, and apply it correctly. 

The type of game knowledge you overvalue is whether a staff hits for 8 damage or 9 damage.  The type of knowledge that is real skill in decision making is whether you can influence a player to miss opportunities or trick him into perceiving opportunities because you understand player behavior and how players react.  Playing the player is always much more valuable than learning specific game knowledge, that stuff is straightforward and easy to absorb. 

The fact that this even has to be explained just makes it kind of obvious that there may be a bit of inexperience here on your end.

And honestly to me that's what is scary.  I don't want crowfall to turn the inner bands into areas where inexperienced players feel safe, there are other bands for that, and frankly there seem to be a lot of inexperienced players trying to influence the game very aggressively. 

Anyway it is no accident that the people who don't understand skill, or try to downplay actual skill never end up at the top of any competitive game.  Someone with skill would know better than to downplay it, and obviously to get to the top they would have a pretty intimate understanding of what it takes to be skillful. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

The game should have a high skill-ceiling, draw in a ton of talented pvpers,

 I'd rather crowfall become THE pvp mmo, where everyone knows that if you want to prove something in that sphere it has to be done in crowfall.

I can't imagine anyone that is truly competitive actually wanting the game to not draw in the best mmo pvpers.

I agree that CF should be challenging, but I question why someone that plays "competitive" games would want to play CF in any form.

Lobby type competitive games provide a rather simple formula that has drawn a ton more players than any MMO has.

Regardless if skill translates across games/genres, the reason or drive for players is similar across MOBA, RTS, FPS, CCG, even MMO Arenas.

Pre-set team size, map, match time, gear (usually), team comp possibilities, etc. Along with having leaderboards, ranks, match making, tournaments and other easy to define quantifiers of who is who. Instant gratification for the most part.

Something "wild" like CF (as presented) is nothing like this despite ACE taking inspiration from this proven formula.

Your focus appears to be about making CF appeal to these folks, yet the core of what makes these games popular can't exist in CF. Superficially there are some similarities, but the formula just isn't there and no amount of increasing the "skill ceiling," mechanical requirements, or whatever aspect of combat will change this.

I'll go out on a limb and say that many play such games to prove something. Usually that is being the "best" relatively speaking. That is easy to see thanks to numbers, rows, and lists.

In CF, what will make for the "best?" Winning a campaign, battle, skirmish, burning down a stronghold, capturing the most land/POI, doing so on a specific ruleset? Doing any of this with a specific team size/comp?

I guarantee people will be bickering about such to prove who is better, but there is no single right answer.

Factor in that campaigns can be months, I just don't see how such unknown variables will appeal to the crowd I assume  you speak about that likes A + B = C.

You mention "best mmo pveprs" which I see having no reason to not give CF a try if they enjoy MMOs and PVP. As many of us do, new shiny, try, move on or not. CF shouldn't be any different. Being there isn't really a "PVP MMO" currently that fills the niche of CF, even without high skill ceiling combat, it should still be appealing to plenty. What are the alternatives? There are several similar products in the works, but overall none are promising what you seem to be seeking.

Overall, CF should fit a niche that doesn't exist and people that want it will play if it isn't horrible quality. Those from other genres are seeking a particular standard might not like it, but oh well. ACE has never promised or even alluded to what you continue to go on about so expecting things to go that way makes zero sense. Maybe you'll settle for whatever it ends up like, but honestly don't get why you wouldn't focus on something that actually provides a challenge. Unless you've reached the top of every single game/genre out there?

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41 minutes ago, APE said:

I agree that CF should be challenging, but I question why someone that plays "competitive" games would want to play CF in any form.

In its current iteration most would not want to, some of us still have hope, those of us old enough to remember how fun and interesting the social aspects of first generation mmorpgs were when blended with pvp politics.  (Shadowbane was not first generation)

Lobby type competitive games provide a rather simple formula that has drawn a ton more players than any MMO has.

Yes but while competitive players who are looking to make a career out of it might focus on these kinds of games, MMORPGs are like dessert, games they could potentially (and many already do) play for fun.

Regardless if skill translates across games/genres, the reason or drive for players is similar across MOBA, RTS, FPS, CCG, even MMO Arenas.

Pre-set team size, map, match time, gear (usually), team comp possibilities, etc. Along with having leaderboards, ranks, match making, tournaments and other easy to define quantifiers of who is who. Instant gratification for the most part.

Anything can be competitive, it is simply up to generating a reason for people to compete.  The ultimate competition in video games has involved the desire to be the best. 

Something "wild" like CF (as presented) is nothing like this despite ACE taking inspiration from this proven formula.

Your focus appears to be about making CF appeal to these folks, yet the core of what makes these games popular can't exist in CF. Superficially there are some similarities, but the formula just isn't there and no amount of increasing the "skill ceiling," mechanical requirements, or whatever aspect of combat will change this.

No, my focus is on making CF a game with a respectable skill-ceiling because any competitive pvper wants to do skillful things vs other skillful players.  As a PvP mmo with little PvE to offer crowfall will simply buckle if it has a low skill-ceiling.  Buckle being subjective, they could keep the game alive (they would apparently be financially fine with less than 50k active subs) but what would the reputation and meaning of the game be?  Another small pond with a low skill-ceiling?  How is that going to draw out the most interesting politics and stories?  If your game appeals to players that gravitate towards low skill-ceiling games you can be sure that the way they handle intrigue, politics, and the social elements will also be fairly inefficient and simple. 

I'll go out on a limb and say that many play such games to prove something. Usually that is being the "best" relatively speaking. That is easy to see thanks to numbers, rows, and lists.

In CF, what will make for the "best?" Winning a campaign, battle, skirmish, burning down a stronghold, capturing the most land/POI, doing so on a specific ruleset? Doing any of this with a specific team size/comp?

I guarantee people will be bickering about such to prove who is better, but there is no single right answer.

There is a right answer, it's what the most skillful players determine it is.  Generally how this works is SkillfulGroupA excels in one part of the game that interests them most.  NotSkillfulGroupB focuses on a part of the game that SkillfulGroupA thinks doesn't take much skill.  They argue, and then SkillfulGroupA beats NotSkillfulGroupB at their part of the game, while NotSkillfulGroupB can not return the favor.  Thus clearly defining the pecking order of who is better. 

Factor in that campaigns can be months, I just don't see how such unknown variables will appeal to the crowd I assume  you speak about that likes A + B = C.

You mention "best mmo pveprs" which I see having no reason to not give CF a try if they enjoy MMOs and PVP. As many of us do, new shiny, try, move on or not. CF shouldn't be any different. Being there isn't really a "PVP MMO" currently that fills the niche of CF, even without high skill ceiling combat, it should still be appealing to plenty. What are the alternatives? There are several similar products in the works, but overall none are promising what you seem to be seeking.

The best MMO PvPers, are used to a certain skill-ceiling, crowfall is currently well below that skill-ceiling.  Right now you have people that are trying to keep that skill-ceiling low because this is the level at which they can thrive, increase that skill-ceiling and they will end up being middling nobodies and they don't like that. 

 

Overall, CF should fit a niche that doesn't exist and people that want it will play if it isn't horrible quality. Those from other genres are seeking a particular standard might not like it, but oh well. ACE has never promised or even alluded to what you continue to go on about so expecting things to go that way makes zero sense. Maybe you'll settle for whatever it ends up like, but honestly don't get why you wouldn't focus on something that actually provides a challenge. Unless you've reached the top of every single game/genre out there?

ACE said they want a game where player skill matters.  Sure technically they never said how much they want it to matter, but when you use that in the context they did you are trying to market the game with a certain image. 

Unfortunately it is looking more and more like they are making a game that will be quite soft, and this also opens them up to losing to other games attempting to fill the PvP mmo void, like CU for example.

I have no desire to make crowfall an esport.  I do have a desire for it to have a skill-ceiling high enough to where good pvpers can feel good about accomplishing things in it.  It adds much more meaning to every accomplishment when it took skill to accomplish it.  Right now it isn't just that crowfall doesn't have a high skill-ceiling, it's that it is well below the average for mmorpgs, which is awful if you are trying to launch a pvp mmo, and other mmos that aren't nearly as pvp-centric still have more skillful pvp available. 

 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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12 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

My guild won every single 10v10 fight night.  We were the tip of the spear in r30s. 

I am sorry that makes you feel insecure that my guild was not only famous in shadowbane when it was at its most populated, but also went on to become one of the most famous guilds of vanilla wow.

Meanwhile when I listen to you speak of WoW it really comes off as someone that never even stepped foot in arena.  Let alone achieved a high rank in it. 

Undefeated in shadowbane whether it was 10v10 or 10v100+.

2900+ rating in wow arena. 

Top 20 NA in sc2.

etc etc...

What competitive experience do you have?

 

 

It's predictable that you would claim affinity with R30s as they were in fact one Shadowbane nation mentioned in "articles" but this was only for hacking the Scorn server, and not for any competitive endeavor. Moreover, R30s was a substantial nation composed of several guilds, several of whom continued to play Shadowbane. So which guild were you in and where are all of the "many articles" talking about your guild? There were hundreds of Shadowbane players tagged to the R30's nation in its heyday, most of whom were just fodder, so it would be laughable if you expect us to accept you as some "amazing Shadowbane player" based upon this tenuous affinity alone (which likely cannot be proven in your case anyway).

 

As for me, everyone who is anyone in the Shadowbane community knows of me and my numerous 'competitive' exploits whether we're talking PvP or just the political game, going back to 2003 on the Treachery and even the Vengeance servers. Actually, I'm familiar with just about every Shadowbane veteran player who has posted in this thread and just about all of them either know me directly from the past or at least recognize my name and know of my reputation. You spoke of allegedly winning some "10v10s" in 2003 which of course won't be substantiated (and hardly matters, as in 2003 SB PvP wasn't particularly competitive as many guilds did not even use TeamSpeak of Ventrilo), so feel free to pull up my profile from the Shadowbane Emulator forums at shadowbaneemulator.com and note my user title. Indeed, it says "10v10 Champion" for a reason, namely that my group won a competitive tournament that was even livestreamed, with most of the fight videos still available on YouTube. Additionally, I participated in every fight and didn't die a single death in the entire tournament. The difference between a 10v10 tournament involving the SBEMU community at its peak (which inherited the ubi community) and any 10v10 fights that would have taken place on a release server in 2003 is that in the former every guild involved used voice comm servers with fully decked out and finished spec groups with spec characters while in the latter there would be about a 75%+ chance that there would be players or even an entire group of players not using voice comm, that neither group involved would be spec groups, and that the groups involved would certainly include unfinished characters with lackluster gear. 

 

In short, you're a complete nobody scrub, who still does not have a clue as to what he's talking about, who allegedly was a 'competitive PvP'er' in an alleged guild that hasn't been identified during a time when the game didn't even have  truly competitive PvP as the overwhelming majority of the players were still complete nubs. Indeed, guilds like r30's and CoS and others who dominated release servers for a brief span of time did so because they were all beta guilds who learned the ropes of the game during the beta process and then they all spread out to different release servers respectively expressly because they didn't want to encounter any real PvP competition, but instead wanted to all be on separate servers where they would be the only organized beta guild contending against herds of inexperienced newbies to the game. Almost all of these guilds, R30's included, left the game at the precise point when their adversaries did finally start to learn siege craft, how to build toons, how to organize in a voice comm server, et cetera. The reason why your argument is entirely so hilarious to every Shadowbane veteran who has read it is because every single one of the premises supporting it is not just completely false but completely contradicted by the truth in every particular, as in the direct opposite of your representations is the truth. Notwithstanding all of that, you still haven't even identified your specific guild that you allege was so legendary in Shadowbane, nor have you shown us any of these alleged articles (that obviously do not exist). If you intend to reply "but I said r30's," many guilds were a part of R30's as well as many random nobody scrub players who weren't particularly good themselves but wanted to tag along with a winning nation. By the time of the migrations to Vengeance I'm pretty sure about 8 or 9/10ths of the former Scorn players could have claimed membership with R30's at one point. Thus far, you haven't substantiated any of your main claims and all you've demonstrated is your complete ignorance of the competitive PvP progression of the Shadowbane game and its player community. Moreover, not a single Shadowbane veteran player posting here knows you or remembers you; this is likely because you were in fact a nobody scrub who was never any good at the game.


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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I'm sorry that my guild was literally the best guild in r30s and dominated the game when it was actually populated.  Enjoy your emulator success.

You sound like you are really trying hard to convince yourself that you made a significant mark in SB.  I've never heard of you and I was in the best guild when the game was most populated, so I don't really take you seriously, sorry.

Luckily you will have a chance to prove just how much your sb emulator success helped you with how you perform in crowfall. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry that my guild was literally the best guild in r30s and dominated the game when it was actually populated.  Enjoy your emulator success.

 

You still haven't given us the name of this alleged guild, nor have you provided one of the "many articles" discussing the PvP exploits of your guild in particular. Surely if your guild was the "best guild" in the r30's nation, then some Shadowbane veterans would remember it. So, what were they called - and any evidence that they or even you existed would be appreciated as well.

And anything to do with the Emulator community is just the tip of the iceberg for me. My reputation from my release server let alone the subsequent servers I played on up until 2007 is more than sufficient to attest to my reputation.

Edited by managainsttime

4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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3 minutes ago, managainsttime said:

 

You still haven't given us the name of this alleged guild, nor have you provided one of the "many articles" discussing the PvP exploits of your guild in particular. Surely if your guild was the "best guild" in the r30's nation, then some Shadowbane veterans would remember it. So, what were they called - and any evidence that they or even you existed would be appreciated as well.

They do remember it, and I've mentioned it numerous times, good luck in crowfall.

To be honest, the fact that you can't even identify the guild tells me a lot about what your experience wit hthe game was when it was at it's most competitive and populated.  There is only one guild that won every 10v10 fight night in that period. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Just now, VIKINGNAIL said:

They do remember it, and I've mentioned it numerous times, good luck in crowfall.

 

For some reason you insist on dodging the question, and now want to exit the conversation. Curious, no?


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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