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facerip

Shadowbane 2.0

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9 minutes ago, APE said:

 

Yes some have been overly critical, but at least they know what they have issue with and list it out. I see Devs responding to both positive/negative feedback, although those without patience need to relax. Overall, I see more focus on specific mechanics, powers, numbers, etc that they bring across clearly that devs could potentially work with. No real "combat sucks" in comparison to early on nor "raise/lower the skill ceiling."

While you might not be the largest "complainer" you view does come off as critical/negative towards ACE and those supporting their work/effort. My interpretation of what you've said is ACE is creating a sub par, low skill game that won't manage to pull in quality PVPers and potentially suffer because of this. Even somewhat passively say they are doing this intentionally which to me is disrespectful. I see little constructiveness in this continued stance and the flow of combative discussions you have with folks (which are two way).

I see a lot of "I know what is best" "Ace isn't doing it right or should do it this way" "You're all wrong" that really doesn't add a lot. Not saying I'm much help myself, but I do find your self indulgent comments to not have any worth in terms of making CF a better product.

Really just confused how after 2+ years, you continue to believe they will somehow see things as you do. The further development gets along, the less likely this will happen. With soft launch supposedly happening relatively soon, the chances of them making enough changes to up the skill ceiling to your standards is slim to none. They have way too much too pump out as it is.

Unfortunately you are not seeing the whole picture.  I also think this is again, your bias at play.  To some people I defend ACE too hard (Like telling people they need to chill out because it is a pre-alpha and ACE isn't necessarily testing systems for direct implementation into the game as is, moreso just testing the basic mechanics of how the systems run.  I don't think I've ever said crowfall is doomed, I've pointed out mistakes ACE may be making, and I don't insult the developers themselves as people.  After 2 years they've made many changes they needed to make, that I was first to call them out on, and their game is not done yet, they have time to make many more.  We are still getting big changes, like recently with archetype decoupling.  I also think that again, you have not been reading the actual words I am typing.  It is easy for them to make the changes I've listed.  Their game is designed to scale friendly fire immunities as is.  They can change abilities to have less area of attack, these are not hard changes. 

 

WoW might be the standard for you, not for me. WoW is a great product and I enjoyed Vanilla, beyond that, I'd much prefer to play several other MMOs, but alas none really do it for me. I hope CF sets its own standard, instead of trying to live up to a game that caters to a completely different style of play.

WoW is the industry standard, every developer who knows anything about mmorpgs would have at least gone into WoW to figure out how it works, why it works the way it does, and what is good and bad about it. 

Both games are invalid to me and neither is a standard I want ACE aiming for. 

ACE isn't aiming for any specific game, but they can learn and take the good and bad from many types of games and genres, which they do, but they aren't perfect, and if making amazing games was easy everyone would do it.

 

Proper physics/collision should keep players from standing on top of one another. Be it a Zerg Ball is on top of one player or spread out across an area thanks to collision or FF, performance is going to suffer. Don't know how much optimization can happen with this engine, but if they don't figure it out, FF isn't going to save the day. Again, no game has every done it that well and I highly doubt CF/Unity will be different. However, as long as it is playable, having lower FPS at times shouldn't cause the game to suffer too much.

There is no one thing that will "save the day" but there are multiple things that can help contribute to better performance, figuring out a way to give players some spacing does that, and FF naturally creates that kind of behavior. 

It is bias as it is what I know. If I had seen you comment about specifics, I wouldn't repeat myself.

Well I just sincerely ask that you read the words for what they mean instead of letting bias alter your perception of what is being said.

 

This would be closer to specifics, but still don't know how ACE can take that and translate into CF's design. I'd like to see real combos and more complex powers but I don't believe it is realistic at this point nor do I want to waste time trying to convince them my way is what people want. Even if they did copy much of what WoW or other games have, I still don't see it ever being a high skill ceiling product. WoW isn't, so copying wouldn't make CF either.

IMO, one should be able to master and excel at CF and still feel accomplished if they do playing something like WoW. Considering all the unknown non-convenience outside the box components that might be needed to excel (beyond hitting 12345 and hiding behind pillars), doing well in CF should be just as rewarding if not more so.

I'd have no problem with GW2 combat in CF but it doesn't fit imo nor do I see this team going that direction.

The combat is already shifting towards GW2 combat and unfortunately, like gw2 combat, it is shifting away from manual aim, well it has manual aim but the aiming is so easy and lenient that it isn't skillful in any way.

 

 

They've made changes, but not many "vastly" different when it comes to combat. They tried something and it flopped so they went the safer route. Still don't believe the engine/tech and or the team are able to provide what you are looking for.

As for FF, I don't see the issue. It is extremely easy for them to flip in on and off for any band/ruleset. To me this is a non issue and people arguing about it seriously are wasting their time.

It is an issue because some of us that have seen certain things get a sense they are drifting away from hardcore rulesets, for their most hardcore band.  Because it is so easy for them to flip on it is something they should definitely try before launch, but we don't even know if we are going to get that.  And we have a group of very active testers that are terrified of the idea and begging for it to stay group immunity (and even for them to increase group sizes) because they don't have the coordination to handle full FF. 

 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I actually feel like they should just go ahead and make it just like Shadowbane. I hate to say this, but I like tab targeting more than "action combat". It feels like the game is an odd amalgamation of Shadowbane and limited tray skill "action combat". The "skill based action combat" system just feels like a mess where you have to move your mouse around like a madman. I've been playing a lot of Shadowbane(Magicbane) lately and I think it's a really great system. I enjoy that system more than the current crowfall one :(. Even the weapon powers was an awesome, original and inuitive mechanic. Being able to use as many skills as you have and hotkey anything. The only thing I would change is the click to movement mechanic.


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i stopped at R30's

they left SB before it got good. They had the beta advantage them left when the general populace started handing them their asses about 3 months in live.

 

yawn


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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46 minutes ago, hillbilly said:

i stopped at R30's

they left SB before it got good. They had the beta advantage them left when the general populace started handing them their asses about 3 months in live.

 

yawn

This is not what actually happened.  This is a narrative people want to tell themselves but the reality of it is most of r30s quit the game after a couple of months because it ran poorly, was buggy, there were other more fun games out there, and it was simply an unstable product.  (service getting hacked etc)

It's really funny and sad at the same time that people brag about beating r30s after all of the best players were gone.  It's like conquering a town that has been abandoned.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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*pats VIKINKNAIL's head*

suuuure...okay yer right :rolleyes:

 


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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VIKINGNAIL you keep saying that SB had worse performance then other games with same number of people.  I dont know where you get your info from but I was in 50 v 50 in DAOC (a comparable game and i had 5 fps)  same come handled 300 to 400 in a siege in SB with around 25 fps.  Also because you compare it to WOW the 100 V 100 BG they made with a better comp got less then 20 fps until people started dying or move off to the side.

You also keep pushing for wow combat now i like a little more movement but changing it to wow does not increase the skill cap.  You say to not discount wow pvp While it was a pve game they just threw in pvp for some fun it has taken over and changed along the way.  WOW pvp in running around insta casting almost everything with small cc all over so you can cast or melee something but doesnt mean that the game takes more skill then one that has more restricted movement less cc and most casts just different.  SB combat too a lot less skill yes but the Char took it all trying to min max the stats which isnt the same and you can just copy what other people did but there was enough skill in fighting to make it fun.  

P.S.  So the R30s left after beta (because of lag/bugs) is that what you were saying?  There were some on launch but was a fun lvling process compared to other games and there some major bugs (one that wouldn't let me log in for a month or so) switched to DAOC came back and started playing again and had far less bugs and lag.   And so your pov would be small sieges and mostly in beta.

  

Edited by Voluse
the font was in bold for some reason and too large.

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8 minutes ago, Voluse said:

VIKINGNAIL you keep saying that SB had worse performance then other games with same number of people.  I dont know where you get your info from but I was in 50 v 50 in DAOC (a comparable game and i had 5 fps)  same come handled 300 to 400 in a siege in SB with around 25 fps.  Also because you compare it to WOW the 100 V 100 BG they made with a better comp got less then 20 fps until people started dying or move off to the side.

You also keep pushing for wow combat now i like a little more movement but changing it to wow does not increase the skill cap.  You say to not discount wow pvp While it was a pve game they just threw in pvp for some fun it has taken over and changed along the way.  WOW pvp in running around insta casting almost everything with small cc all over so you can cast or melee something but doesnt mean that the game takes more skill then one that has more restricted movement less cc and most casts just different.  SB combat too a lot less skill yes but the Char took it all trying to min max the stats which isnt the same and you can just copy what other people did but there was enough skill in fighting to make it fun.  

P.S.  So the R30s left after beta (because of lag/bugs) is that what you were saying?  There were some on launch but was a fun lvling process compared to other games and there some major bugs (one that wouldn't let me log in for a month or so) switched to DAOC came back and started playing again and had far less bugs and lag.   And so your pov would be small sieges and mostly in beta.

  

I'm sorry but SB didn't have 300 - 400 player sieges with 25fps, at least not during live. 

Also it is absolutely false that wintergrasp had 20fps, I got stable 100+ in wintergrasp with 120vs120, the only times it had larger FPS drops were when you would play it uncapped on populated battlegrounds and end up with like 500 players, in those times you would see performance issues. 

I don't know how anyone could look back at SB objectively and say it had better performance than DAOC. 

But then again when people are biased for something they will often remember it inaccurately. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Sorry you the one being bias or anti SB at this stage.   But hey im a SB fanboi to you even if i give accurate numbers your going to make stuff up.  You know wintergrasp isnt a battleground right its an actual zone you go to that is all pvp?  Battlegrounds you que for and go into which they only had one large one 100 v 100  that is more recent then wintergrasp.  

and i dont know what server you were on at launch of SB but we had one on morning called Denied that got to 1K population at the early stages of the game (now i know they were alot of alts and stuff but to say they couldnt field 300+ by them selves is just being unreasonable).  

 

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Vikingnail..

 

Did you play SB Beta? Because I don't remember you unless you had a different character name then.

The Rolling 30's were remnants of the Burning Legion from Beta. I was an officer and "The tip of that spear" ( Ever heard of Almecka?)

When the Game launched, our guild left to fight without the rest of the Burning legion. To stand on our own without our friends from SiN- Darkhand- Lotd etc.

of course our main rivals in beta, the entire CoS alliance viewed us as their rivals and no the rest of them and came to Treachery to take us on.

Our 60 person guild against a 300 person alliance.

 

Our guild disentegrated in Darkfall mostly to too many blubies we picked up in Wow, I left and joined LotD.

 

LotD is probably more responsible for the fall of the rolling 30's than anyone else.


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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1 hour ago, Voluse said:

Sorry you the one being bias or anti SB at this stage.   But hey im a SB fanboi to you even if i give accurate numbers your going to make stuff up.  You know wintergrasp isnt a battleground right its an actual zone you go to that is all pvp?  Battlegrounds you que for and go into which they only had one large one 100 v 100  that is more recent then wintergrasp.  

and i dont know what server you were on at launch of SB but we had one on morning called Denied that got to 1K population at the early stages of the game (now i know they were alot of alts and stuff but to say they couldnt field 300+ by them selves is just being unreasonable).  

 

Your numbers aren't accurate though.  SB was a slide show with even 100 players total anywhere remotely close to each other at launch.  Oddly enough this was a step back from their final builds of beta, which could support 100 with much less lag and performance issues. 

You know that when wintergrasp went live you had to queue into it or you would get kicked out of the zone right?  You obviously don't have much experience with it. 

You also understand that a guild having a memberbase doesn't mean concurrent players logged in during a battle right?

14 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

Vikingnail..

 

Did you play SB Beta? Because I don't remember you unless you had a different character name then.

The Rolling 30's were remnants of the Burning Legion from Beta. I was an officer and "The tip of that spear" ( Ever heard of Almecka?)

When the Game launched, our guild left to fight without the rest of the Burning legion. To stand on our own without our friends from SiN- Darkhand- Lotd etc.

of course our main rivals in beta, the entire CoS alliance viewed us as their rivals and no the rest of them and came to Treachery to take us on.

Our 60 person guild against a 300 person alliance.

 

Our guild disentegrated in Darkfall mostly to too many blubies we picked up in Wow, I left and joined LotD.

 

LotD is probably more responsible for the fall of the rolling 30's than anyone else.

This is simply incorrect.  Nurfed was the best guild in r30s.  CoS went to treachery because they were rightfully afraid of r30s and primarily our guild because they got stomped in every single battle against us. 

Everyone was invited to play on scorn, many ran away after failures in beta, not surprising. 

If you want to give LotD credit for the fall of r30s that's fine, but let's be real, LAPD took down a shell of r30s, with most of the best players and guilds already gone to other servers or quitting the game because the game wasn't release material. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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7 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Your numbers aren't accurate though.  SB was a slide show with even 100 players total anywhere remotely close to each other at launch.  Oddly enough this was a step back from their final builds of beta, which could support 100 with much less lag and performance issues. 

You know that when wintergrasp went live you had to queue into it or you would get kicked out of the zone right?  You obviously don't have much experience with it. 

You also understand that a guild having a memberbase doesn't mean concurrent players logged in during a battle right?

This is simply incorrect.  Nurfed was the best guild in r30s.  CoS went to treachery because they were rightfully afraid of r30s and primarily our guild because they got stomped in every single battle against us. 

Everyone was invited to play on scorn, many ran away after failures in beta, not surprising. 

If you want to give LotD credit for the fall of r30s that's fine, but let's be real, LAPD took down a shell of r30s, with most of the best players and guilds already gone to other servers or quitting the game because the game wasn't release material. 

I don't remember Nurfed in Beta.

The Burning Legion consisted primarily of SiN- DarkHand- Redemption.    CoS was our primary rival.

BoneDancer himself promoted me to officer in those days. I don't remember you.

Who was Nurfed?

and the reason R 30's ruled scron is no one of consequence went there but Rolling 30's. It wasn't till you split up and LAPD was formed that anyone good was up against you.


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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Just now, PaleOne said:

I don't remember Nurfed in Beta.

The Burning Legion consisted primarily of SiN- DarkHand- Redemption.    CoS was our primary rival.

BoneDancer himself promoted me to officer in those days. I don't remember you.

Who was Nurfed?

and the reason R 30's ruled scron is no one of consequence went there but Rolling 30's. It wasn't till you split up and LAPD was formed that anyone good was up against you.

Yea, you don't remember the guild that literally won every single 10vs10 fight night. And went undefeated vs everyone.  That's... convenient. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Just now, VIKINGNAIL said:

Yea, you don't remember the guild that literally won every single 10vs10 fight night. And went undefeated vs everyone.  That's... convenient. 

Who cares about duels and "fight nights?"

Its a siege game. There was 10 of you? Then you were a non factor.


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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19 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Your numbers aren't accurate though.  SB was a slide show with even 100 players total anywhere remotely close to each other at launch.  Oddly enough this was a step back from their final builds of beta, which could support 100 with much less lag and performance issues.

Because you read my first post stating that it was laggy at launch but they fixed it. 

You know that when wintergrasp went live you had to queue into it or you would get kicked out of the zone right?  You obviously don't have much experience with it. 

Yea wintergrasp was horrible to play yes you queue for it during the pvp part doesnt make it not a zone which = not a battleground in wow.  The queue was for making it fair for making sides even and when you did go in if you didnt go to the small fights the game would almost halt but you can view it in what ever light you want. 

You also understand that a guild having a memberbase doesn't mean concurrent players logged in during a battle right?

Ohhh another of your great reading skills people keep complaining about when i said there were alot of alts.  But the only time you will get most of a guilds fighting force is a planed raid/siege. 

Just because you didnt play much after the game launched doesnt mean lots of people didnt.

 

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14 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

Who cares about duels and "fight nights?"

Its a siege game. There was 10 of you? Then you were a non factor.

You clearly weren't relevant at in beta or at launch if that's how you perceive things.  Considering the best guild (us) were able to defeat many times our number consistently. 

You also obviously don't understand that sieges are not where most pvp happens, roaming open world pvp is the thing that happens most frequently, and when it comes to sieges shadowbane failed so hard in the performance factor that it lost most of its playerbase within months.

It's honestly just laughable, playing aside all of the guilds you listed in r30s, they were just such awful pvpers in general.  I still remember darph's spastic calling on voice chat.  "OMG they are attacking here!"  Crickets chirping, meanwhile they were actually on the completely opposite side of the area.

"Go in!"  "Focus this person!"  That's about the level of skill in your typical sb guild.  Luckily for my guild, we all had competitive quake and rts backgrounds. Which of course is why we went through everyone like butter, even winning 10vs 150s like nothing.

But hey as someone that ran away from scorn I am sure you know a lot about what SB was like at launch. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You clearly weren't relevant at in beta or at launch if that's how you perceive things.  Considering the best guild (us) were able to defeat many times our number consistently. 

You also obviously don't understand that sieges are not where most pvp happens, roaming open world pvp is the thing that happens most frequently, and when it comes to sieges shadowbane failed so hard in the performance factor that it lost most of its playerbase within months.

It's honestly just laughable, playing aside all of the guilds you listed in r30s, they were just such awful pvpers in general.  I still remember darph's spastic calling on voice chat.  "OMG they are attacking here!"  Crickets chirping, meanwhile they were actually on the completely opposite side of the area.

"Go in!"  "Focus this person!"  That's about the level of skill in your typical sb guild.  Luckily for my guild, we all had competitive quake and rts backgrounds. Which of course is why we went through everyone like butter, even winning 10vs 150s like nothing.

But hey as someone that ran away from scorn I am sure you know a lot about what SB was like at launch. 

We didn't "run away" from Scorn. We didn't want to nutcup and depend upon allies. We stood on our own against the entire zerg of CoS.

You however had to depend on the R30's in order to feel secure.

No one here remembers you. That must really hurt your poor gamer ego, 


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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15 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

We didn't "run away" from Scorn. We didn't want to nutcup and depend upon allies. We stood on our own against the entire zerg of CoS.

You however had to depend on the R30's in order to feel secure.

No one here remembers you. That must really hurt your poor gamer ego, 

We didn't depend on r30s, we carried them, then we left, then they lost.  Weird how that works? 

If it makes you feel better I don't remember you, but I do remember there were so many people that were afraid to play on scorn.  You are on a long list. 

Honestly it's hilarious when people that claimed they played beta act like they don't remember my guild.  It just tells me they weren't aware of what was going on at the top of the food chain. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

We didn't depend on r30s, we carried them, then we left, then they lost.  Weird how that works? 

If it makes you feel better I don't remember you, but I do remember there were so many people that were afraid to play on scorn.  You are on a long list. 

Being part of the largest most experienced zerg on a server doesn't require bravery. Nice try.

 

And R30s lost when Lotd left because your 10 people were a non factor...


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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