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Shadowbane 2.0

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2 hours ago, PaleOne said:

Being part of the largest most experienced zerg on a server doesn't require bravery. Nice try.

 

And R30s lost when Lotd left because your 10 people were a non factor...

I prefer what actually happened personally.  But you can enjoy your fantasy.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:18 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

This is not what actually happened.  This is a narrative people want to tell themselves but the reality of it is most of r30s quit the game after a couple of months because it ran poorly, was buggy, there were other more fun games out there, and it was simply an unstable product.  (service getting hacked etc)

It's really funny and sad at the same time that people brag about beating r30s after all of the best players were gone.  It's like conquering a town that has been abandoned.

You conveniently left out that the R30 players left after they were caught hacking and duping.

http://www.prx-guild.com/hallofshame/m/16323972/article/1703386

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/73309/lords-of-the-dead-pvp-guild

"We left because the service got hacked (by us) and it was unstable (after we hacked it) and other more fun games were out there (because we're carebears)."

At least, that's how I read what you wrote in the above.


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11 hours ago, vandarr said:

You conveniently left out that the R30 players left after they were caught hacking and duping.

http://www.prx-guild.com/hallofshame/m/16323972/article/1703386

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/73309/lords-of-the-dead-pvp-guild

"We left because the service got hacked (by us) and it was unstable (after we hacked it) and other more fun games were out there (because we're carebears)."

At least, that's how I read what you wrote in the above.

Well I've already mentioned that my guild specifically left r30 because we were tired of carrying them, once we had definitive proof of their cheating we cut ties.  If people want to pretend history was different and that they conquered r30s at their best, well that's fine, but they'd be wrong. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Well I've already mentioned that my guild specifically left r30 because we were tired of carrying them, once we had definitive proof of their cheating we cut ties.  If people want to pretend history was different and that they conquered r30s at their best, well that's fine, but they'd be wrong. 

If by "at their best" you mean "while they were gaining material and strategic advantages through cheating", then we can agree that R30's "at their best" was dominant.


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1 minute ago, vandarr said:

If by "at their best" you mean "while they were gaining material and strategic advantages through cheating", then we can agree that R30's "at their best" was dominant.

Nope, I mean when they had the best and undefeated pvp guild in their nation that was destroying everyone so no one could possibly compete in battle no matter where in the world it occurred.  But you can continue to push inaccurate narratives if you wish.  It won't change history though.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Nope, I mean when they had the best and undefeated pvp guild in their nation that was destroying everyone so no one could possibly compete in battle no matter where in the world it occurred.  But you can continue to push inaccurate narratives if you wish.  It won't change history though.

So you're stating that they were not cheating while you were in their nation?


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2 minutes ago, vandarr said:

So you're stating that they were not cheating while you were in their nation?

I'm stating that while my guild was in r30s they did not suffer defeat, we dominated every single battle and were like a black plague constantly moving across the server dominating every territory we touched. 

Once we left r30s eventually suffered defeat, and were not at their strongest when this occurred.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 6/27/2017 at 1:15 PM, PaleOne said:

Vikingnail..

 

Did you play SB Beta? Because I don't remember you unless you had a different character name then.

The Rolling 30's were remnants of the Burning Legion from Beta. I was an officer and "The tip of that spear" ( Ever heard of Almecka?)

When the Game launched, our guild left to fight without the rest of the Burning legion. To stand on our own without our friends from SiN- Darkhand- Lotd etc.

of course our main rivals in beta, the entire CoS alliance viewed us as their rivals and no the rest of them and came to Treachery to take us on.

Our 60 person guild against a 300 person alliance.

 

Our guild disentegrated in Darkfall mostly to too many blubies we picked up in Wow, I left and joined LotD.

 

LotD is probably more responsible for the fall of the rolling 30's than anyone else.

I don't think CoS ever had over 100 in it...even at its peak. I can remember more than one occasion when we had 8 and 9 group coordinated sieges....and maybe even a 10...but I don't think we ever got over that. 

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Just now, Gradishar said:

I don't think CoS ever had over 100 in it...even at its peak. I can remember more than one occasion when we had 8 and 9 group coordinated sieges....and maybe even a 10...but I don't think we ever got over that. 

I just remember mousing over both of our trees at our peak. I have no idea how many of those were alt acounts.


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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On 6/27/2017 at 11:32 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry but SB didn't have 300 - 400 player sieges with 25fps, at least not during live. 

Also it is absolutely false that wintergrasp had 20fps, I got stable 100+ in wintergrasp with 120vs120, the only times it had larger FPS drops were when you would play it uncapped on populated battlegrounds and end up with like 500 players, in those times you would see performance issues. 

I don't know how anyone could look back at SB objectively and say it had better performance than DAOC. 

But then again when people are biased for something they will often remember it inaccurately. 

The siege of Val'Haven at the end of Treachery was certainly this large and while it wasn't lag free...it was certainly playable. Later on, we had enormous fights (especially against CN) where we had hundreds engaged in combat. The R30s excuse of "the product was inferior and we went to better games" was a convenient excuse for "we're bored...we have nothing to prove...lets move on." I don't think the hacking was the issue. I don't believe reputation was the issue. Unfortunately, those who didn't stick around missed the true golden age of Shadowbane. The lore play servers added limitations which really pushed the envelope on party make up. True spec groups didn't exist until much later in SB's development. I look back at the videos of those initial CoS v. Burning Legion or CoS vs. Redemption fights...and quite frankly..they were a joke. [80% of CoS were on Elves for crying out loud!] Those that left the game having only played on those initial servers (Treachery, Mourning, Scorn, etc.)...missed A LOT about Shadowbane (ie...never engaged in a mine fight...never had Vorg gear...never played a Vamp Thief...never took down a R8...etc etc etc) and really never gave it a chance....all to their detriment. 

Edited by Gradishar

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12 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

The siege of Val'Haven at the end of Treachery was certainly this large and while it wasn't lag free...it was certainly playable. Later on, we had enormous fights (especially against CN) where we had hundreds engaged in combat. The R30s excuse of "the product was inferior and we went to better games" was a convenient excuse for "we're bored...we have nothing to prove...lets move on." I don't think the hacking was the issue. I don't believe reputation was the issue. Unfortunately, those who didn't stick around missed the true golden age of Shadowbane. The lore play servers added limitations which really pushed the envelope on party make up. True spec groups didn't exist until much later in SB's development. I look back at the videos of those initial CoS v. Burning Legion or CoS vs. Redemption fights...and quite frankly..they were a joke. [80% of CoS were on Elves for crying out loud!] Those that left the game having only played on those initial servers (Treachery, Mourning, Scorn, etc.)...missed A LOT about Shadowbane (ie...never engaged in a mine fight...never had Vorg gear...never played a Vamp Thief...never took down a R8...etc etc etc) and really never gave it a chance....all to their detriment. 

I'm sorry but the product WAS inferior and there WERE better games out there. 

Why would hardcore pvpers want to stick around in a game with a really low skill-ceiling and terrible performance and optimization? 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry but the product WAS inferior and there WERE better games out there. 

Why would hardcore pvpers want to stick around in a game with a really low skill-ceiling and terrible performance and optimization? 

Because no other game allowed "hardcore pvpers" to shape their world like Shadowbane. No other game gave "hardcore pvpers" true consequences to their pvp. Yes... if you wanted controlled arena fights and the ability to crow about the size of your e-peen...then yes...there were lots of better options out there. If you wanted to take away something someone else spent weeks and months (if not years) building...then Shadowbane was the only game in town. [That "hardcore" nature of SB was one of its financial downfalls. When guilds lost a city they'd spent months creating...they often just cancelled their subscriptions. DAoC sure as hell had nothing like that.]

Edited by Gradishar

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6 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry but the product WAS inferior and there WERE better games out there. 

Why would hardcore pvpers want to stick around in a game with a really low skill-ceiling and terrible performance and optimization? 

Curiously what was better at that time?

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6 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

Because no other game allowed "hardcore pvpers" to shape their world like Shadowbane. No other game gave "hardcore pvpers" true consequences to their pvp. Yes... if you wanted controlled arena fights and the ability to crow about the size of your e-peen...then yes...there were lots of better options out there. If you wanted to take away something someone else spent weeks and months (if not years) building...then Shadowbane was the only game in town. [That "hardcore" nature of SB was one of its financial downfalls. When guilds lost a city they'd spent months creating...they often just cancelled their subscriptions. DAoC sure as hell had nothing like that.]

You're talking about pixels and imagined worth here.  What hardcore pvpers care about is testing their skill and proving superiority over other highly skilled players. The politics and the kicking over castles is great and all, but if the skill-ceiling is low it is ultimately insignificant.

3 minutes ago, dolmar said:

Curiously what was better at that time?

Tons of things were better, WoW was entering testing, DAoC was big and had much more skilled guilds coordinating for group pvp, Counter-strike was on the rise and esports in general was on the rise.

Hardcore PvPers were looking for good competition, not a game that ran poorly, had a tiny playerbase and had a low skill-ceiling.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You're talking about pixels and imagined worth here.  What hardcore pvpers care about is testing their skill and proving superiority over other highly skilled players. 

Tons of things were better, WoW was entering testing, DAoC was big and had much more skilled guilds coordinating for group pvp, Counter-strike was on the rise and esports in general was on the rise.

Hardcore PvPers were looking for good competition, not a game that ran poorly, had a tiny playerbase and had a low skill-ceiling.

WoW , Daoc , and , counter strike was not full loot hard core pvp it was arena style combat.

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10 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

Because no other game allowed "hardcore pvpers" to shape their world like Shadowbane. No other game gave "hardcore pvpers" true consequences to their pvp. Yes... if you wanted controlled arena fights and the ability to crow about the size of your e-peen...then yes...there were lots of better options out there. If you wanted to take away something someone else spent weeks and months (if not years) building...then Shadowbane was the only game in town. [That "hardcore" nature of SB was one of its financial downfalls. When guilds lost a city they'd spent months creating...they often just cancelled their subscriptions. DAoC sure as hell had nothing like that.]

And for the record...I hold the same degree of contempt for the CoS folks who left the game before it matured as I do for the R30s/Burning Legion who left much too early. The game during the Corruption days...the Vindication days...the Saedron days...all had a level of game play vastly superior to Treachery and Scorn. There is no question that R30s and CoS had an enormous advantage on the new player base...and as the general player base's knowledge matured...and as the gap closed between the beta testers and the new players...the "l33t" player often found that there were green pastures elsewhere. 

Edited by Gradishar

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1 minute ago, dolmar said:

WoW , Daoc , and , counter strike was not full loot hard core pvp it was arena style combat.

WoW did not have arenas until TBC.  And again, you are associating imagined worth to pixels where I am looking at skill-ceiling and competing  vs other skillful players.  What's more hardcore, destroying a base for a game with a tiny playerbase and a low skill-ceiling, or beating out a team in cal-i after months of hardwork and matches to get to the playoffs?

Just now, Gradishar said:

And for the record...I hold the same degree of contempt for the CoS folks who left the game before it matured as I do for the R30s/Burning Legion who left much too early. The game Corruption days...the Vindication days...the Saedron days...all had a level of game play vastly superior to Treachery and Scorn. There is no question that R30s and CoS had an enormous advantage on the new player base...and as the general player base's knowledge matured...and as the gap closed between the beta testers and the new players...the "l33t" player often found that there were green pastures elsewhere. 

This is a tad disingenuous, shadowbane had such poor optimization and performance at launch, and so many issues, with hacking, low-skill-ceiling, etc that most of the good players left long before any gap was closed. 

I know people like to imagine a narrative where the gap was closed and then they left, but it's just not how shadowbane launch played out.  The game was objectively horrible for a launch-state game. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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14 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You're talking about pixels and imagined worth here.  What hardcore pvpers care about is testing their skill and proving superiority over other highly skilled players. The politics and the kicking over castles is great and all, but if the skill-ceiling is low it is ultimately insignificant.

Tons of things were better, WoW was entering testing, DAoC was big and had much more skilled guilds coordinating for group pvp, Counter-strike was on the rise and esports in general was on the rise.

Hardcore PvPers were looking for good competition, not a game that ran poorly, had a tiny playerbase and had a low skill-ceiling.

You're right of course. The "hardcore pvper" your talking about is actually only interested in FPS games where time investment, organization, leadership, group tactics  and logistics are irrelevant. If his twitch skills cannot be showcased...it's not worth his time. Those "hardcore gamers" did flee SB early for greener pastures and I'm sure will likely do the same with Crowfall.

Edited by Gradishar

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