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PVP vs PVE (EU?)


makkon
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PVE servers:

  • multiple (less competition)
  • has mobs (test skills, ultimates, leather and meat)
  • has the same resource nodes as PVP server

PVP servers:

  • splitted to faction
  • all servers without mobs
  • dangerous
  • long way get closer to enemy faction (=time lose)
  • same nodes as PVE

we get a problem:

summary pve servers have more ppl than pvp with 3-6 times (EU prime time)

is is pvp based project? we can't (and won't) test pvp coz 11 ppl online whole EU prime time. this is our time waste.

 

decrease servers amount for now and cut out 5+ rank nodes and mobs from PVE servers so ppl can get motivation to get in PVP zone.

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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I feel this is going to be the case even at launch granted not with pve servers but with all the region splits PLUS multiple campaigns, quite a few actually. But I agree to make only 1 NA server ffa and one faction, for now, work a bit more on performance and take off mobs from pve. Faction map almost always dead now FFA maybe has a few. Let's be real the only people in Singapore are NA or EU guys trying to get mats for free lol. The commute to get my crafting mats from enemy players is very high sometimes 30 mins to an hour before I even FIND someone to fight.

remove mobs from pve add em to pvp

I don't want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge. I want to play a GAME against PLAYERS, where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose. Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE. Even if i lose, the experience won't feel hollow. I don't want another worthless trophy.

PLAY TO CRUSH

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I understand that this is test and so on, but the longer the game is evolving, the further it is heading towards softcore grinding pve zerg-oriented RNG Korean game. All these spirit bank, crafting rng, minerals/gems, archetypes balance and pve servers features are speaking so loudly about this, that I really really really hope this is just for the test. But it sounds so naive...

Edited by sedside
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I think the main reason that they are using PvE servers right now is to make sure people have a safe place to craft in order for them to get better feedback on the crafting system. Especially, when they put in new recipes and crafting specialties. It takes a huge amount of time to even craft one vessel, so how are they supposed to know if the items that are giving vessels attributes work properly if the all crafters get ganked and their items stolen?

They have already tested pvp heavily in Hunger Dome and SP and continue to do so. However, I feel big world isn't about pvp but more about the campaign system, crafting, and harvesting feedback.

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38 minutes ago, krevra said:

I feel this is going to be the case even at launch granted not with pve servers but with all the region splits PLUS multiple campaigns, quite a few actually. But I agree to make only 1 NA server ffa and one faction, for now, work a bit more on performance and take off mobs from pve. Faction map almost always dead now FFA maybe has a few. Let's be real the only people in Singapore are NA or EU guys trying to get mats for free lol. The commute to get my crafting mats from enemy players is very high sometimes 30 mins to an hour before I even FIND someone to fight.

remove mobs from pve add em to pvp

I can get if it temp situation. But I think dev should never encourage and teach  players testers to such kind of gameplay.

Really, after bugfix and faction I can't find normal pvp (2v2, 3v3). 1v8 - yes, 1v6 or 2v9 - yes, sometimes. This is coz all solo/smallscale groups learning pve...

 

10 minutes ago, sluce said:

I think the main reason that they are using PvE servers right now is to make sure people have a safe place to craft in order for them to get better feedback on the crafting system. Especially, when they put in new recipes and crafting specialties. It takes a huge amount of time to even craft one vessel, so how are they supposed to know if the items that are giving vessels attributes work properly if the all crafters get ganked and their items stolen?

They have already tested pvp heavily in Hunger Dome and SP and continue to do so. However, I feel big world isn't about pvp but more about the campaign system, crafting, and harvesting feedback.


we have shared banks from any world place, we have possibility to get back to pve and craft.

I can undesrtand if there was no shared bank (I hate it even playing solo), but this way...

 

 

PS.

the second related problems:

  • wipes
  • long way to gathering

if devs want to test craft, so give us spare resources after wipe

if devs want to test gathering (drop, bugs etc) - increase gathering speed, tools decay etc. we are testing, I undesrtand it. but pvp is also testing. testing most of the main part of the game!

by default we (I think most of us) test pvp mechanics (skills, fps, latency, bugs, animations, balances and classes)

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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7 minutes ago, makkon said:

Really, after bugfix and faction I can't find normal pvp (2v2, 3v3). 1v8 - yes, 1v6 or 2v9 - yes, sometimes. This is coz all solo/smallscale groups learning pve...

Honestly, I know the feeling. After roaming around for awhile trying to find people to engage I get a bit board and log out. I think more people will start to pvp when we actually get some win conditions and a need to fight. (this being for the items in our embargo bank to export).

10 minutes ago, makkon said:

we have shared banks from any world place, we have possibility to get back to pve and craft.
 

I can undesrtand if there was no shared bank (I hate it even playing solo), but this way...

I think why the dev's made it like this is because when embargo banks get implemented, each type of campaign will have different import and export rules and exporting will only be done after the campaign ends with some guild/faction/person winning. However, because there is no win conditions yet they just wanted to start working out the bugs with transporting items between servers (which is wise do to some of the item loss bugs they were having). As we progress we should see more and more restrictions on this until it reaches there initial vision.

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7 hours ago, makkon said:

PVE servers:

  • multiple (less competition)
  • has mobs (test skills, ultimates, leather and meat)
  • has the same resource nodes as PVP server

PVP servers:

  • splitted to faction
  • all servers without mobs
  • dangerous
  • long way get closer to enemy faction (=time lose)
  • same nodes as PVE

What are you talking about? PvP and PvE have completely different resources. PvE only gets basic no-quality versions of ore, stone, and wood, and low quality (grey, white, sometimes green) cat and boar hides. PvP gets all the more advanced resources. If you want to craft anything better than grey quality, you need to get resources from PvP.

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7 hours ago, sedside said:

I understand that this is test and so on, but the longer the game is evolving, the further it is heading towards softcore grinding pve zerg-oriented RNG Korean game. All these spirit bank, crafting rng, minerals/gems, archetypes balance and pve servers features are speaking so loudly about this, that I really really really hope this is just for the test. But it sounds so naive...

The PvE server IS just for testing. As said its a way for those new to get gear and get familiar with the game before going to the PvP severs. Plus its a test bed, foundation for the EKs. There won't be "PvE" servers/CWs in the live game.

Edited by pang
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28 minutes ago, Avloren said:

What are you talking about? PvP and PvE have completely different ... [quality of resources]

^This.  However, there are a lot of factors decreasing PvP, incl the (re-)added resource types on PvE servers, the recent damage escalation, the wait for EK testing, the 3-way faction splits, etc ...

A few minor tweaks could increase participation & feedback in a lot of areas:

  •  Add all resource types and MOBs to all servers; double the quantity of nodes and quadruple the quantity of MOBs, if possible
  •  Strictly drop only grey on PvE, only higher quality on PvP
  •  Make the duration of crafting and harvesting potions unlimited on PvE
  •  Increase the HP of players to match the increased damage (temp fix, until defenses scale up)
  •  Keep the PvP maps small or increase the POI rewards
  •  Add test dummies to all servers

The goal is to increase both the PvE testbed (crafting grey & testing AT abilities on MOBs/dummies) and PvP (full gear on tough opponents).  We shouldn't assume that players aren't useful as testers in PvE, but we need to get them in & out of there asap so the whole testing process is fun. 

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5 hours ago, Avloren said:

What are you talking about? PvP and PvE have completely different resources. PvE only gets basic no-quality versions of ore, stone, and wood, and low quality (grey, white, sometimes green) cat and boar hides. PvP gets all the more advanced resources. If you want to craft anything better than grey quality, you need to get resources from PvP.

what are you talking about? pve servers have even rank7 nodes. didnt check out this weekend but previous yes. If they do not produce purpule - they still produce blue. I did it and I know what I am talking about

for example, I also found 12 gold nodes rank 5 in one place - just lol.

anyway 50 ppl in pve and 10 in pvp servers ruin my game 2 weekends already. this is why I post here. on it there are good reasons I listed above

disappointed

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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44 minutes ago, makkon said:

what are you talking about? pve servers have even rank7 nodes. didnt check out this weekend but previous yes. If they do not produce purpule - they still produce blue. I did it and I know what I am talking about

for example, I also found 12 gold nodes rank 5 in one place - just lol.

anyway 50 ppl in pve and 10 in pvp servers ruin my game 2 weekends already. this is why I post here. on it there are good reasons I listed above

disappointed

That was a pvp server. Scorn (faction pvp) and Corruption (ffa pvp) have rank 4+ nodes, including stuff like gold and iron. Sanctuary (pve) has only rank 1 nodes, and only slag as far as ore goes - no gold/iron/copper/etc. The maps haven't changed since last weekend, and there has never been gold on a pve server in Crowfall. This a core part of the game design: you gotta risk pvp to get the better resources. More risk, more reward.

You're right about pvp populations being low, so low that sometimes you can run around getting rare ores without even knowing it's a pvp server because there's no one to kill you. But resources aren't the reason why.

Edited by Avloren
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41 minutes ago, Avloren said:

That was a pvp server. Scorn (faction pvp) and Corruption (ffa pvp) have rank 4+ nodes, including stuff like gold and iron. Sanctuary (pve) has only rank 1 nodes, and only slag as far as ore goes - no gold/iron/copper/etc. The maps haven't changed since last weekend, and there has never been gold on a pve server in Crowfall. This a core part of the game design: you gotta risk pvp to get the better resources. More risk, more reward.

You're right about pvp populations being low, so low that sometimes you can run around getting rare ores without even knowing it's a pvp server because there's no one to kill you. But resources aren't the reason why.

they named as sanctuary pve. if there was pvp enabled - I don't know it, anyway I never found any enemy there but ppl running around and was green.

anyway the problem exists

too much servers for current population

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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19 minutes ago, makkon said:

they named as sanctuary pve. if there was pvp enabled - I don't know it, anyway I never found any enemy there but ppl running around and was green.

anyway the problem exists

too much servers for current population

Don't know what to tell you, that has to be a bug. If you see anything other than slag/cobblestone/knotwood on Sanctuary, screenshot it and submit it to the bug thread.

Possibly you ended up on the faction server somehow, it would have green players (your faction) and rank 7 nodes.

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1 hour ago, Avloren said:

Don't know what to tell you, that has to be a bug. If you see anything other than slag/cobblestone/knotwood on Sanctuary, screenshot it and submit it to the bug thread.

Possibly you ended up on the faction server somehow, it would have green players (your faction) and rank 7 nodes.

ok checked it now and it looks like there is no more nodes on pve servers

but it was there previous week, I am 100% sure. anyway mobs still only on pve. why implementing soul system (easy to abuse) and remove mobs from pvp - I dont get it.

soul system WILL be abused (pregeneration before going in pvp)

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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When have they ever said they are going to create "PvE" servers?

Also, my understanding is the current "game play" available to anyone, anywhere, at any time, is ALL a form of testing for various modules/functions of the game.

There will be different rule-sets by CW band.  This, however, isn't a "PvE server" mechanism.

 

 

Note:  It is my opinion there should be a LOT of Environment in the final Crowfall Game (not testing) . . . but of a very SPECIFIC and calibrated nature:  All "PvE Stuff" should very naturally be designed to require, at some point, to greater or lesser degree depending on the item/activity/scenario, time-sinking in one or more CWs where PvP lives.  I'll start with what it should not be:

It should not be typical PvE content designed as the core play material and grind.  It should not be dungeon bosses that drop superz-lootz.  It should not be farm mobz for money or chest drops that drop lootz or money, nor should it be quest chain after quest chain that rewards character advancement.

It SHOULD be:  Interest and time-sink activities that are directly tied to the CWs.  The ties can be the need for specific materials found there, the need to gather information of a particular kind, the need to advance a "Research Project" through the finding of an artifact/scroll/whatever (in the CW).  I'm a huge believer in the unknown (this is where the idea of "Research Projects" come in), and I put up an idea in another thread that relates to the good use of The Environment in support of the CF model:  

 

So, getting back to the buzz-word that feels entirely mis-representative to me:  "PvE Servers"?

We are going to have a game where different Bands of CWs will have (very adjustable) rule sets for PvP, such as (for instance) you can't attack a team-mate in one band, but that will be possible in another.

Where have they said they are going to create "PvE Servers" with PvE content so we can play the game in a mode where  character advancement and core game-play revolves around PvE grinding, dungeons, mob farming, and quest chaining?

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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Right now, theres no point in actually going into the PvP servers solo and just roam, as you'll never find lone crafters/harvesters. Most of the time its guilds in parties looking for PvP, which is fine, but I've ran around in previous tests for hours without finding anyone at all.

This is not gonna happen at launch, so we need to chill a bit before panicking. At launch the harder campaigns will have better resources and if Crafters want to craft the legendary stuff, they'll either have to trade with people doing these hard campaigns, or they'll have to join themselves.

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35 minutes ago, zinnie said:

Right now, theres no point in actually going into the PvP servers solo and just roam, as you'll never find lone crafters/harvesters. Most of the time its guilds in parties looking for PvP, which is fine, but I've ran around in previous tests for hours without finding anyone at all.

This is not gonna happen at launch, so we need to chill a bit before panicking. At launch the harder campaigns will have better resources and if Crafters want to craft the legendary stuff, they'll either have to trade with people doing these hard campaigns, or they'll have to join themselves.

this. I actually doesn't care about guild zergs (it hurt solo/small scale players, yes, but I can deal with it)

really hope current amount of servers will be reduced. I vote for

1 pvp ffa

1 pvp faction

1 pve server (without mobs)

first week east NA, second week EU. this will fix population problem

players can accustomed to such server gradation and we can see close to lauch alot of tears like: wtf there is my pve server? or ppl killing me, I can't craft full set.

pve and crowfall - fail

pvp and crowfall - true

pvp is  pain and suffering, they need to get used to advance

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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People moved to PvE servers for several reasons, one of them is that all monsters are there. Also, harvesting became too frustrating on PvP servers, it's slow, complicated because of endless need in tools/potions and buggy. What other motivation did we have? Chests. They are gone. POIs are meaningless. And, finally, already low pvp online is divided by 3 by faction system.

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