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makkon

PVP vs PVE (EU?)

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1 hour ago, zinnie said:

 

EK's?

The EKs aren't going to be 100% stand alone.  Meaning, meaningful game progression is tied to CW participation in some form or other, including the economy (buying goods from Advertursome CW Warriors and Export Goods).  They are private instances for indivdual "homes", not "PvE Servers" as we typically understand that phrase, yes?

They are irrevocably tied to the CWs and the goods / materials that can only be found in the CWs.  Meaning, the Home dynamic of the EKs is, by design, working properly with the CWs.  Sort of like how an Engine partners with a Transmission for the intended result.

Unless you've heard otherwise and the EKs are going to be revamped to include all the forms of resource and building materials found in CWs, then modified so that the gate to those items is through quests and NPC only challenges.

Edited by Bramble
Concept

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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1 hour ago, sedside said:

People moved to PvE servers for several reasons, one of them is that all monsters are there. Also, harvesting became too frustrating on PvP servers, it's slow, complicated because of endless need in tools/potions and buggy. What other motivation did we have? Chests. They are gone. POIs are meaningless. And, finally, already low pvp online is divided by 3 by faction system.

None of this complaint makes any sense to me at this point in the game DEVELOPMENT . . . and TESTING.

Keep your Eyes on the Ball:  If people wanted to TEST the mechanics / dynamics of crafting and gathering code, and they went to "PvE Servers" so they could push that around some without being leg-kicked every 10 seconds, that's good stuff.  The feedback given so far allows ACE to judge their crafting/gathering dynamics whilst under PvP pressure, and now without.

Because they are TESTING those aspects of the game under development.

In like manner, anyone who wants to run around shooting everyone else in the face, and that's all they want to do in Testing . . . go shoot people in the face as a TESTER.

Additionally, if in testing we are seeing too FEW people shooting others in the face thus impacting TESTING . . . then I'm going to trust ACE to see that and schedule additional TESTING SESSIONS as required, orchestrated for PVP activity only, to cover that base.

ACE should, under no circumstances, alter TESTING environments for the sole purpose of catering to players who want to simply play the game ahead of time, only in the manner they want everyone else to play the game when the game is available to play, instead of buckling up as TESTERS.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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2 hours ago, makkon said:

this. I actually doesn't care about guild zergs (it hurt solo/small scale players, yes, but I can deal with it)

really hope current amount of servers will be reduced. I vote for

1 pvp ffa

1 pvp faction

1 pve server (without mobs)

first week east NA, second week EU. this will fix population problem

players can accustomed to such server gradation and we can see close to lauch alot of tears like: wtf there is my pve server? or ppl killing me, I can't craft full set.

pve and crowfall - fail

pvp and crowfall - true

pvp is  pain and suffering, they need to get used to advance

It is my opinion there is a massive, and fundamental failure to understand how "PvE" (Environment) is / can be manifest in a PvP centric MMO, for the explicit purpose of enhancing how the game world encourages PvP..

This is because most people are sheeple, unable to think outside the boxes set by "the masses", and popular agenda, and slogan-baiting.

This was never promoted as a "PvE Game".  This means there's never been any expectation by anyone we are going to see the typical PvE fed progression tracks in Quest lines, Dungeons and Bosses (e.g. Molten Core for purpler gear for you old-school WoWers), etc.

However, this is an MMO presenting a VIRTUAL WORLD.  This means . . . in Crowfall . . . the Environment is a powerful, flexible, and profound tool to leverage in service of a PvP centric model.  Otherwise, we can simply dispense with everything and simply fight against each other in wire-frame, in a wire-framed box.

"PvE and Crowfall - fail" is a fallacious argument.  It's meaningless.  There aren't going to be Bosses and Dungeon progression tracks.  There will be maps to explore and discover (PvE) in fresh CWs.  There are going to be resources to gather and transport (PvE).  You are going to do it with pack animals (PvE).  You are going to craft items (PvE)  and Sell items (PvE interface anyway).  If you jump off a cliff you are going to take fall damage (PvE), and if you manage to sucker someone in following your jump when they have less health you might get lucky with a laugh-tastic KILL as they die from fall damage (PvE)]

There are going to be POIs that have to be defended (PvE object acting as a gravity well for PvP).

PVE . . . within the relevant context for Crowfall . . . is going to be incredibly important for adding spice to PvP, variety in objectives and modes of taking or defending objectives, of successfully transporting goods (or not), and providing a variety of motivations, goals, and objectives for individuals and Guilds being in a CW to begin with.

Simply saying Crowfall & PvE is a fail as you've done is talking about "PvE" from an irrelevant perspective and is wasted breath.

And for me PvP isn't pain and suffering.  It's exciting and satisfying.  Especially if I out-think the nitwit who's going to try to ambush my buddy's pack animal and ends up tripping over me first.

"Pain and Suffering" is never a good goal for game design.

People will naturally slot into the Rule Sets that suit their available play time, budget (1 account or 375.3 accounts), guild size, and personalities.  Another great idea in overall design from ACE.

Edited by Bramble
spelling

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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32 minutes ago, Bramble said:

The EKs aren't going to be 100% stand alone.  Meaning, meaningful game progression is tied to CW participation in some form or other, including the economy (buying goods from Advertursome CW Warriors and Export Goods).  They are private instances for indivdual "homes", not "PvE Servers" as we typically understand that phrase, yes?

They are irrevocably tied to the CWs and the goods / materials that can only be found in the CWs.  Meaning, the Home dynamic of the EKs is, by design, working properly with the CWs.  Sort of like how an Engine partners with a Transmission for the intended result.

Unless you've heard otherwise and the EKs are going to be revamped to include all the forms of resource and building materials found in CWs, then modified so that the gate to those items is through quests and NPC only challenges.

 

No, the EK's will not offer any resources, but ACE has stated that you could technically stay in your EK forever as long as you offer your skills as a crafter for example to people that leave campaigns with goods. So a person leaving the Dregs with some legendary Ore can pay you to make him a Legendary Sword. 

This means you can have Crafters staying in their EK never participating in Campaigns. Thats what I mean by PvE server.

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10 minutes ago, zinnie said:

 

No, the EK's will not offer any resources, but ACE has stated that you could technically stay in your EK forever as long as you offer your skills as a crafter for example to people that leave campaigns with goods. So a person leaving the Dregs with some legendary Ore can pay you to make him a Legendary Sword. 

This means you can have Crafters staying in their EK never participating in Campaigns. Thats what I mean by PvE server.

This is an Econo-War.

That Crafter PAYING the adventurer for those goods has, absolutely, participated in that CW within the context of Economy, gold sinks, etc.

Economy, in game wealth, Guild development, diverse interests and talents, what have you, are, absolutely, strung together with these kinds of ties.  The only way we could truly say we have "PvE Servers" is if those ties were completely broken as I described above, and the EKs became completely self sufficient within the context of progression.

Which they are not, and should never be.

This, to me, is one of the pivotal beauties of the CF model:  That you CAN have people, willing to spend money ACEs way to keep the game financially viable, who don't really like PvP (but their money spends all the same) but love crafting and buy/sell, be a healthy part of a PvP game.  In a natural way, much like we have IRL, while still supporting full-out PvP in the warzones, the game really PvP centric.  The CWs.  Warp and Weft, Economy and War, Destruction vs Building.  Yin and Yang.

Econo War.  Throne War.

Edited by Bramble

“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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The first week of corruption map there was a bug and it was set to PVE for a couple of days. Got lots of harvesting done let me tell you. But it was a bug, and they have fixed it.  

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5 hours ago, Bramble said:

It is my opinion there is a massive, and fundamental failure to understand how "PvE" (Environment) is / can be manifest in a PvP centric MMO, for the explicit purpose of enhancing how the game world encourages PvP..

 

easiest way to unswer your post is why pve servers are born:

ppl crying what they got killed.


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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After meaningless killing players who did not react, you deserve a PVP empty server.

Last time I entered a PVP server I was attacked and slained while harvesting cobblestone close to my faction temple.

We barely have time to gather enough resource and understand how a runestone "advanced" tool is crafted.
I did it... but on Sanctuary. 

I'll be gladly killed by you, trying to harvest gold from a POI in the same parcel  of your guild/faction stronghold on a CW server. 
At the moment I stay in PVE servers.
Enjoy your time roaming alone in PVP test servers and do not complain.


Catelyn: War will make them old, as it did us. I pity them.
Mathis: Why? Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?
Catelyn: Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.

A Clash of Kings, Chapter 22, Catelyn II.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowfall Discord Channels: international (english) - italiano

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2 hours ago, RikForFun said:

After meaningless killing players who did not react, you deserve a PVP empty server.

Last time I entered a PVP server I was attacked and slained while harvesting cobblestone close to my faction temple.

We barely have time to gather enough resource and understand how a runestone "advanced" tool is crafted.
I did it... but on Sanctuary. 

I'll be gladly killed by you, trying to harvest gold from a POI in the same parcel  of your guild/faction stronghold on a CW server. 
At the moment I stay in PVE servers.
Enjoy your time roaming alone in PVP test servers and do not complain.

this is why I almost never touch solo players near respawns at ffa server. almost until bored to find some1.

but faction is other kind of pvp. there potential enemy from ally faction can coordinate and best way to find pvp - enemy faction temples and keeps

anyway this is pvp game. cooblestone and slag ore you can gathering at pve servers which was created for crafters/

ps. why I should roaming empty pvp servers in pvp game? I decide to not play it and honestly answer to potential buyers of our community do not buy this game coz it is not pvp game and you didnt find any pvp on test.

ppl asking is is worth buying. I never lie


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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On 05.03.2017 at 7:35 PM, Bramble said:

None of this complaint makes any sense to me at this point in the game DEVELOPMENT . . . and TESTING.

Keep your Eyes on the Ball:  If people wanted to TEST the mechanics / dynamics of crafting and gathering code, and they went to "PvE Servers" so they could push that around some without being leg-kicked every 10 seconds, that's good stuff.  The feedback given so far allows ACE to judge their crafting/gathering dynamics whilst under PvP pressure, and now without.

Because they are TESTING those aspects of the game under development.

In like manner, anyone who wants to run around shooting everyone else in the face, and that's all they want to do in Testing . . . go shoot people in the face as a TESTER.

Additionally, if in testing we are seeing too FEW people shooting others in the face thus impacting TESTING . . . then I'm going to trust ACE to see that and schedule additional TESTING SESSIONS as required, orchestrated for PVP activity only, to cover that base.

ACE should, under no circumstances, alter TESTING environments for the sole purpose of catering to players who want to simply play the game ahead of time, only in the manner they want everyone else to play the game when the game is available to play, instead of buckling up as TESTERS.

Friend, there is so much caps lock in your post that I'm worried if you have taken your pills today.

If they only want us TESTING harvesting and crafting why do they even bother:

  1. turning pvp on?
  2. trying to make any balance changes?
  3. making new servers with different pvp mechanics?
  4. doing wipes getting rid of op weapons/stuff?

If they only want us TESTING harvesting and crafting why don't they just:

  1. leave HD/SP for PvPers and make one pve sandbox for these who only want to TEST?
  2. give crafters unlimited resources so they could TEST the poorly made socks of it much faster than now?
  3. give harvesters unlimited tools and closely situated harvest nodes so they could (see above)?
  4. make harvesting/crafting potions last a bit longer?
  5. make harvesting/crafting passive skills learn a little bit faster?

Concluding everything I said above, if they want us to TEST, why don't they make a convenient TESTING environment for us, but instead they make us suffer in pvp, searching for nodes, crafting potions and tools?

I've got an answer for all these questions. It's simple. They DON'T want us to just be TESTING harvesting and crafting. They want the GAME to come TOGETHER. They want to be implementing new features and finally construct their masterpiece. And we are just saying that the current stage of TESTING isn't interesting for us to TEST, because it's boring without pvp.

Edited by sedside

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Make only PvP servers ... and some people will complain.

Make additional non-PvP Servers ... and some people will complain.

By Gaeas grace, i'm glad to be no dev. You probably only know you make the best game, when literally all the people complain ... and you still care. What a strange job.

Edited by Kraahk

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this test has not sense:

As you said its a pvp project but there are 6 servers for less than 30ppl

U cant find anyone, the lagg is awesome, u have no objetives no talents; u only walk arround the world...

If u want to us to test the game, i mean, a real test, we need:

Less servers, more people (giving access), a real pvp based server (something with objetives like a bg, arena, etc, just put people on an small map), open talents, and fix lag servers.

Thanks for you understanding.

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4 hours ago, makkon said:

this is why I almost never touch solo players near respawns at ffa server. almost until bored to find some1.

but faction is other kind of pvp. there potential enemy from ally faction can coordinate and best way to find pvp - enemy faction temples and keeps

anyway this is pvp game. cooblestone and slag ore you can gathering at pve servers which was created for crafters/

ps. why I should roaming empty pvp servers in pvp game? I decide to not play it and honestly answer to potential buyers of our community do not buy this game coz it is not pvp game and you didnt find any pvp on test.

ppl asking is is worth buying. I never lie

If you are discouraging somebody to buy this game judging by the situation on Big World I reckon you forgot how ArtCraft announced it with these clear statements in last October:

Quote

It is NOT, however, a playable game experience (in the same way that we placed rules around Hunger Dome and Siege Perilous).

To this end:

If you have group of friends (or guildmates) waiting to come check out the game, we aren’t quite there yet!

The focus of this playtest is less play and more test!

If you really want to help, we have a list of features/content that you can assess.

 

Meanwhile, in some servers of Big World, PVP is turned on. There are a pair of things I realized about.

This is a PVP game and a MMORPG,  a game in which players have their amusement in creating and managing organized group.
Don't ask developers a different environment. Make it. 
Focus on gathering people ready to fight, divide them in groups and tell them to battle each other. 
You surely understand there is no way a developer can fix balance on an archetype after a one-sided fight.
Possibly Artcraft is having meaningful example of combat given by players on US server (Sugoi vs Winterblades). 

This is a PVP game and it is all about perception of risk vs reward.
Players from Europe who stay in Sanctuary probably have had they share of players who "test" PVP again unwilling testers. 
As you said, a small amount of the most common stone can be gathered in Sanctuary. Not a surprise people are reclutant to enter in Scorn. 
We have factions, yes. 
What about offering players on Sanctary protection of your faction in Scorn?  Make them side with you and then defend them while they gather the rarest resource.

Here is our opportunities of having PVP, we should get it.

Edited by RikForFun

Catelyn: War will make them old, as it did us. I pity them.
Mathis: Why? Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?
Catelyn: Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.

A Clash of Kings, Chapter 22, Catelyn II.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowfall Discord Channels: international (english) - italiano

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