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Slashin8r

Repair System

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I know many people suggested being able to repair, and I noticed it is a planned feature, but the planned feature is quite simple in a game that is so detailed. I suggest making a whole skill tree dedicated to repairing so people can make a decent profit repairing other players' gear. This will also make more use of Eternal Kingdoms as players who generally only PvP will now have to go find a player with high repair skill or join a guild. Players who focus more on their Eternal Kingdoms will, without a doubt, have more player traffic moving through their kingdom, so repair players would want to hang out in these kingdoms to get steady business.

 

Repairing should have a chance to fail causing an item to degrade or break, it shouldn't always repair a set amount of durability, and it should take some amount of time, but not too much time. So, I imagined 14 skills for the skill tree. 1x "Grant Repair Ability", 4x "+5% Chance", 4x "+10% Repair", 4x "+10% Speed", and 1x "Repair Mastery". Starts with granting the ability, then splits into 3 different paths, and all rejoins for the mastery in the end, like most other skill trees. Repair Mastery = +5% Chance, +5% Repair, +10% Speed. Maybe add a very slight bonus a master repairer gives to items they repair, this will encourage players to fully train the skill tree.

 

How many times an item has been repaired would need to be tracked. This is crucial for the realism, the more you fix the same item, the higher the chance for your next repair to fail. The following table would show the success rates:

 

Times Repaired 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Base Success Rate 90.00% 80.00% 70.00% 60.00% 50.00% 40.00% 30.00% 25.00% 20.00% 15.00% 10.00%
Max Skill Success Rate 100.00% 100.00% 95.00% 85.00% 75.00% 65.00% 55.00% 50.00% 45.00% 40.00% 35.00%

Base Repair Amount: 50%

Master Repair Amount: 95%

Base Speed: Undetermined

 

When repairing an item, you have a chance for all the types of success as well as failure and critical failure. Each success would simply repair more durability. A failure would result in the item degrading which will also reset the "Times Repaired" counter. A critical failure would result in the item breaking (possibly providing a limited number of lower grade materials). This will then help promote business for salvaging, which I believe should also be a skill tree of its own, as players would now need to make the choice of risking their blue item degrading or breaking from this 10th repair or finally salvage it while you can get some good materials from it. If it were to break, you lose everything, if it were to degrade, you could use it all over again, sell it, or salvage it for lower quality materials. Junkers and Repairmen would be 2 highly sought after jobs since they would have such a high rollover rate.

 

Now, many of you may think that making it a job would make it too much work and time just to get your item repaired. If that is the case, you do away with the skill system I suggested and you keep the max durability loss per repair as planned, but also include the degrade chance and break chance as illustrated in the table above.

 

Let me know what you all think,

Slash

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Every time an item is repaired a crafter and a harvester is deprived from income. I like the idea for item to be unrepairable, it makes the games much more dynamic. 

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Item degradation is a pretty important function for the economy to work, so I'm kind of wary of any sort of repair skill, even if it has a chance to break the item.

If it must be added, I'd prefer a system similar to SWG where the repair reduces the max durability of an item. So repairing a sword at 1/100 dura would turn it into 40/40 for example. The durability penalty must be harsh enough and expensive to encourage players to make new items over constantly repairing old ones - repair should be a last resort.

Edit: to keep crafters in the loop, perhaps the repair tools themselves should be crafted. but it should still generally be more expensive than making new items, and only used perhaps in the field for emergencies.

Edited by emmgee

ex-SWG (Lowca). Veteran of the Great EVE War. Discord: hustler#6125

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8 minutes ago, pang said:

Yeah I don't think it needs to be that complicated. Just make it simple like SWG with each repair reducing total durability until it can't be fixed anymore and breaks for good.

I like this.  Simple.  Only thing I would add to the equation is every time a weapon is repaired, it does less damage. 

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Does a repair system even really make sense for Crowfall? Why should someone get attached to their weapon? IMO, at most, repairing should be a very expensive item that you can use in the field until you can buy a new weapon; repairing an item from no to max durability should cost anywhere from 1-2x the cost of the item.

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11 hours ago, Daddie said:

Every time an item is repaired a crafter and a harvester is deprived from income. I like the idea for item to be unrepairable, it makes the games much more dynamic. 

My system was designed to give them that money they would be deprived of. Repairing will be in game, guaranteed. Maybe some specific campaigns won't allow it (as the game is modular and all campaigns can differ), but for most players, it will be an option that is available to them. Better to build a system around repairing that puts money in the crafters' & gatherers' pockets. Repairing could cost the repairman's fee plus materials that a gatherer farmed. PvPers should not be afraid to repair with the materials they just stole from someone else so give that money away every now again.

 

9 hours ago, makkon said:

repair system will kill crafting and gathering -> economy crash

Please elaborate on how it kills the economy? If anything, it adds more for crafters to make profit on (as repair skill would most likely be in the crafting trees), and you can make repairing cost resources (plus whatever extra the repairman would want as profit) and therefore gathering has more to sell too. I understand that having no repair at all would increase rollover rate of items and therefore support crafters & gatherers, but a repair system of some sort will be in the game at release. As of now, it will most likely be a repair system very similar to SWG, which still extends the life of an item, but with no extra profit to a crafter or gatherer.

 

3 hours ago, ringhloth said:

Does a repair system even really make sense for Crowfall? Why should someone get attached to their weapon? IMO, at most, repairing should be a very expensive item that you can use in the field until you can buy a new weapon; repairing an item from no to max durability should cost anywhere from 1-2x the cost of the item.

I really like the idea of an item that you use. This then becomes another item to steal and would be worth ganking people for them. Then as a gatherer, you feel kinda accomplished if you used up your repair tool and got home safely, doing double the amount of work as normal.

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6 minutes ago, Slashin8r said:

My system was designed to give them that money they would be deprived of. Repairing will be in game, guaranteed. Maybe some specific campaigns won't allow it (as the game is modular and all campaigns can differ), but for most players, it will be an option that is available to them. Better to build a system around repairing that puts money in the crafters' & gatherers' pockets. Repairing could cost the repairman's fee plus materials that a gatherer farmed. PvPers should not be afraid to repair with the materials they just stole from someone else so give that money away every now again.

There is no money in Crowfall, its all barter. 

The real problem is that any repair system will remove the need to play a campaign. Imagen you played the most difficult campaign and got some epic loot which is used to craft the most powerfull gear available. Now tell me, what incentive yould you have to join the next most difficult campaign if you are able to repair that powerfull gear?

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1 hour ago, Daddie said:

There is no money in Crowfall, its all barter. 

The real problem is that any repair system will remove the need to play a campaign. Imagen you played the most difficult campaign and got some epic loot which is used to craft the most powerfull gear available. Now tell me, what incentive yould you have to join the next most difficult campaign if you are able to repair that powerfull gear?

No money as of now, but some item will become standard currency just as it does in all games with a similar economy.

The most difficult campaigns won't allow any item import at all, so transferring items from one campaign to another would be impossible in that fashion. Transferring items from any campaign to an Eternal Kingdom for repairing and having it bound to a specific campaign to make sure it only goes back there, definitely not unreasonable as these functions already exist in game or are planned for release.

Incentive to join new campaign is.... the campaigns you were playing have finished because the campaigns are dynamic and ever changing. Repairing would be much more handy in longer campaigns, so you don't need to have that same end-game item crafted many times throughout the duration of the campaign and still allow profits to go to crafters and gatherers in the same fashion as rerolling and selling that item again. My system also incorporates the loss of the item or degrading of the item so its not like they can even possibly keep the same item forever. It now adds a bit more decision making as you know there is risk involved in repairing, and not just the static max durability loss, which sooner or later makes the item useless, but you reap full benefit of the salvage, not having to see that gatherer for those materials.

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Bah, just wrote an edit to my reply above, but it didn't go through so had to retype it out, heh.

 

I may not be imagining how Eternal Kingdoms will work on release correctly. I imagined them being the hubs for the economy. Players would go to other players' Eternal Kingdoms to shop, trade with players, find new friends or groups or guilds, and now to repair with my addition. I imagined that you would have to constantly transfer items to and from your Eternal Kingdom so that you can use them in other players' Eternal Kingdoms, for shopping, trade, repair, etc. This would give purpose to the Eternal Kingdoms and a very good reason for the PvE players to invest in them.

If a PvP player could do everything they ever needed to do within the campaign they are currently playing, then they would never visit another player's Eternal Kingdom. So the PvE player would still need to venture into PvP campaigns to get high grade resources to upgrade and maintain their Eternal Kingdom? Then they make higher grade stuff than their cowardly PvE competitors and get rich selling it to them? The brave PvE players simply get to be king of the cowardly PvE players?

Edited by Slashin8r

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Devs:  "Repair gives us another realistic parameter to tweak."

Kickstarter Player:  "They've stated all along they'll add it.  It's a natural part of durability & decay."

Skeptical Player:  "Crowfall should commit to stuff they believe matters now, not add more TBD tweaks."

Spreadsheet Player:  "Awesome.  I'll add another column."

Political Player:  "Let's not talk about it."

---

Suggestion:  

First we modify Durabililty to make it do what it was intented to do.  Make Durability a simple sum of the crafting materials used -- up or down on type but not quality -- and rename the experimental statistic Decay Rate.  Decay rate modifies both the usage and death decay, which should be mandatory in any Campaign World, and gets us back to something worth experimentation points vs Damage.  

Then we can include Repair as the simple system suggested above, restoring Durability but dropping the maximum in a predictable way.  If desired, you can even have repair skills which modify the amount of durability restored or the materials required.  E.g. a Doctor skill for vessels.

I'm not really in favor of Repair.  The game is morphing in to spreadsheet game of non-orthogonal statistics.  But the above seems consistent with the rest of Crowfall and gives the devs plenty of tweaks.

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21 minutes ago, Dominate said:


Devs:  "Repair gives us another realistic parameter to tweak."

Kickstarter Player:  "They've stated all along they'll add it.  It's a natural part of durability & decay."

Skeptical Player:  "Crowfall should commit to stuff they believe matters now, not add more TBD tweaks."

Spreadsheet Player:  "Awesome.  I'll add another column."

Political Player:  "Let's not talk about it."

---

Suggestion:  

First we modify Durabililty to make it do what it was intented to do.  Make Durability a simple sum of the crafting materials used -- up or down on type but not quality -- and rename the experimental statistic Decay Rate.  Decay rate modifies both the usage and death decay, which should be mandatory in any Campaign World, and gets us back to something worth experimentation points vs Damage.  

Then we can include Repair as the simple system suggested above, restoring Durability but dropping the maximum in a predictable way.  If desired, you can even have repair skills which modify the amount of durability restored or the materials required.  E.g. a Doctor skill for vessels.

I'm not really in favor of Repair.  The game is morphing in to spreadsheet game of non-orthogonal statistics.  But the above seems consistent with the rest of Crowfall and gives the devs plenty of tweaks.

This is cool. Essentially you just made it into a module that can be used (or not used) differently per campaign which fits exactly with the game model. This is probably exactly what the devs have planned or is very close. I would still love to see crafters & gatherers profit from repairs since they will inevitably be introduced. Maybe a thrall assigned to the task of repairing so players still need to flock to Eternal Kingdoms to repair. The more reasons for needing to go to someone else's Eternal Kingdom, the better. Players should need to either visit often or stock up on supplies. I can imagine certain campaigns not allowing anything in or out until the end, so you would never see those players, but many campaigns will, or should, allow transferring of items.

 

Edit: I understand that the currently planned repair system will most likely involve a crafted item that needs to be used on an item and then the repaired item loses max durability so it can be repaired less and less each time until useless. Then this item can be sold by thralls within Eternal Kingdoms, and that does work, however, simply by making it an item that does the job, crafters can bypass the whole Eternal Kingdom system by bringing those items directly into the campaigns (the ones that allow it). This system would not create the need for players to go to other players' Eternal Kingdoms.

Edited by Slashin8r

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14 hours ago, makkon said:

repair system will kill crafting and gathering -> economy crash

SWG had a repair system and the economy ran just fine.

To be clear a repair system doesn't mean you get to keep that item forever. There will still be durability and eventual loss of said item.

Edited by pang

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I think this should be an arm of the blacksmith tree.  I know my friend, who wants to be my armor smith, wants to be an active part of keeping my gear repaired.  And I agree that durability is a separate thing.  eventually, your stuff falls apart with age.  I get that.  I think it would be cool if, for instance, your blacksmith could sharpen your sword, adding a damage buff to your sword for a certain amount of hits.  Eventually, that blade will dull, and I would have to go back to that blacksmith to have it sharpened again for a fee.  

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To be fair to all crafters, each should be able to repair or create a repair kit for their specific skill (eg: armorsmiths repair armor, woodcrafters repair bows/staffs, etc). Those crafters that do not make repairable items should be heavily relied on for crafted mats necessary to repair or craft repair kits. 

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In Star Wars Galaxies the whole repair kit system was stupid.  Adds to inventory and recipe bloat and really doesn't add anything positive to the game, other than allowing for emergency repairs if an unexpected fight damages your armor.  In that regard, I could see maybe allowing a one time patch job for emergencies just to last you long enough to replace it.  But overall, I think it's better to just not have repair kits and adjust durabilities accordingly.  Make quality stuff last a reasonably moderate amount of time, so you have plenty of time to save up for and craft/buy the eventual replacement.


Legend Gaming

Kendogg - Member

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25 minutes ago, Mezcon said:

I think this should be an arm of the blacksmith tree.  I know my friend, who wants to be my armor smith, wants to be an active part of keeping my gear repaired.  And I agree that durability is a separate thing.  eventually, your stuff falls apart with age.  I get that.  I think it would be cool if, for instance, your blacksmith could sharpen your sword, adding a damage buff to your sword for a certain amount of hits.  Eventually, that blade will dull, and I would have to go back to that blacksmith to have it sharpened again for a fee.  

that'd be cool, however most games do this via enchanting, and maybe im wrong but i did think they mentioned the possibility to enchant your gear in one of the vids

Probably a more honest/integral way to deal with repairing is by making it cost dust and it lowering the durability cap.
they could even go as far as to allow you to perpetualy repair a gear.

eventualy the gears max dura is only 20points, meaning you need to spend lots of dust for only a few points....usualy it wouldnt be worth it, but in some cases it actualy would be to that particular player

dust is gonna be used to run factory orders  and is gonna be one of the most accesible resources, as it seems to be a part of all crafts.... it also  already serves the purpose of extending the value/result of materials
This way you get to choose - do you spend dust to repair that 1 legendary sword, or do you spend the same dust to factory craft 10 purple swords

However, the fact that Salvaging is in suggest that they want to entice us to break gears down vs perpetualy keeping them.

Im gonna save up all my nearly broken tools and gears till the moment i unlock salvaging thats for sure :)

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