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Dondagora

Scoundrel: The-Worst-of-the-Worst Discipline

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The Scoundrel discipline is the most annoying to deal with, and just the sort of dishonorable fighter you'd prefer to avoid.

"But all is fair in war!" you may be saying.

Nay, my friends, not all, until the Scoundrel degrades it to plundering and crime.

 

Scoundrel Power #1 "Mug": Tackle the enemy at close range, knocking them back a small amount and stealing a random equipment from them and putting it into your inventory. Does not work if your inventory is full.

Scoundrel Power #2 "Run Away!": Dash backwards 5 meters and gain a temperary speed buff.

 

This discipline would be powerful, but likely the most disliked in the game. Exemplifying hit-and-run tactics and straight-up thievery, it is truly the most despicable of the disciplines.

 

Thoughts?

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That does sound OP, but maybe give it a bit more rules. Make "Mug" have a chance to miss/fail. Obviously should only have stealthable characters allowed for this discipline. Should also grant the "Peek" skill like in Shadowbane.

Essentially, go stealth, find enemy, "Peek" inventory to check for good items, "Steal/Mug" to get the item found (this brings you out of stealth), if successful you will be able to use the "Run Away" power, but if unsuccessful, you suffer a knockdown or simple 1sec stun and don't get use of the "Run Away" power. Also, should not be any equipped item that can be stolen, only inventory items. Make this skillset very similar to that of a Thief from Shadowbane (not sure if thieving is already planned for release as many concepts are from Shadowbane).

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I've been watching some humorous Youtubes recently.  One where some guy on a subway platform grabs this petite girls smartphone and attempts to make off with it.  (e.g. Mug).

As he's playing tug-of-war with her for a moment for the item, he all spraddle legged and manly, you see her FOOT come up between his legs with some force, he collapses to his knees, and she executes a spin-kick to his face.  He collapses backwards holding his face, she picks up her phone and scoots off.  He's still on his back holding his face.

We already have "mug" in the game:  PvP.  You want my stuff, you make it past me first.

I don't generally care for one-button skill gimmicks skimming items out of my character, leaving me to have to try and play catch up with the button-wonder.

I like the knut-shotting and face-spin-kick possibilities far, far more.


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1 minute ago, Bramble said:

I've been watching some humorous Youtubes recently.  One where some guy on a subway platform grabs this petite girls smartphone and attempts to make off with it.  (e.g. Mug).

As he's playing tug-of-war with her for a moment for the item, he all spraddle legged and manly, you see her FOOT come up between his legs with some force, he collapses to his knees, and she executes a spin-kick to his face.  He collapses backwards holding his face, she picks up her phone and scoots off.  He's still on his back holding his face.

We already have "mug" in the game:  PvP.  You want my stuff, you make it past me first.

I don't generally care for one-button skill gimmicks skimming items out of my character, leaving me to have to try and play catch up with the button-wonder.

I like the knut-shotting and face-spin-kick possibilities far, far more.

Haha, great comparison! I agree, if any type of "stealing" is added it should be more in the advantage of the one being "mugged", allowing for a fight to easily start. We want to promote PvP, not give players another way to escape it.

So, in my scenario above, do away with the "Run Away" skill altogether and even add a debuff on successful steal. When you steal, you gain a debuff that lasts some determined duration which prevents the use of stealth, slows your movement speed and increases duration of CCs by determined duration. After "stealing" you should be easier to catch giving the "mugged" player a chance to retaliate. We can call this something like "Overburdened". It should take time for you to adjust to the weight and proportions of the new item you acquired.

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The only kind of "steal" I would like to see, is a skill that lets you keep a dead body around longer, and prevents a crow from summoning to the temple for perhaps double the time.

This game seems more of a "take it from my cold dead hands" type of game. I don't like the idea of stealing from players in this fashion.

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22 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

The only kind of "steal" I would like to see, is a skill that lets you keep a dead body around longer, and prevents a crow from summoning to the temple for perhaps double the time.

This game seems more of a "take it from my cold dead hands" type of game. I don't like the idea of stealing from players in this fashion.

I disagree. 

Steal was a important aspect in SB. Rarely could a thief fight 1on1 and win, however they were dangerous because they could get close to you and access your inventory and take stuff.

They had restrictions with this. For one they could fail, two they would pop out of stealth if they fail or if they got a item so they had to be quick with restealth and get away. And of course three, they had to hope their 'mark' didint have track or more than likely they were not getting away clean.

Some of my fav/best SB experiences was from the thief, not from combat but from other player vs player interactions and stealth/stealing. And lets not forget the epic stolen banestone stories. :)

Although the above described mug/speed buff is meh. The whole issue with the thief is that he moved slower in stealth, stealth was a cast time, and a hit could bring him out, there was ALOT of risk for his reward.

 

In general, this seems to be what CF is actually lacking. The alternate player vs player role archetypes. They are trying to add archetypes with a particular role like support/healing, dps, tank, etc. When they need to relook at what they call specialization that while their combat abilities suck they play the game differently. 

(Disclaimer that you could make a combat viable thief in SB, it just wasn't as straight forward or easy as others.)

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

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14 minutes ago, Vectious said:

In general, this seems to be what CF is actually lacking. The alternate player vs player role archetypes. They are trying to add archetypes with a particular role like support/healing, dps, tank, etc. When they need to relook at what they call specialization that while their combat abilities suck they play the game differently. 

(Disclaimer that you could make a combat viable thief in SB, it just wasn't as straight forward or easy as others.)

Is this one of the things Disciplines is going to address? 

Personally, I think it would be hilariously mischievous to have a discipline like the one OP is discussing. Have I ever experienced it? Nope. Would I be disgruntled if a stealthy little weasel took my stuff? Probably.. But then.. The hunt is on. 


Of the Hawk People

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1 hour ago, Vectious said:

I disagree. 

Steal was a important aspect in SB. Rarely could a thief fight 1on1 and win, however they were dangerous because they could get close to you and access your inventory and take stuff.

They had restrictions with this. For one they could fail, two they would pop out of stealth if they fail or if they got a item so they had to be quick with restealth and get away. And of course three, they had to hope their 'mark' didint have track or more than likely they were not getting away clean.

Some of my fav/best SB experiences was from the thief, not from combat but from other player vs player interactions and stealth/stealing. And lets not forget the epic stolen banestone stories. :)

Although the above described mug/speed buff is meh. The whole issue with the thief is that he moved slower in stealth, stealth was a cast time, and a hit could bring him out, there was ALOT of risk for his reward.

 

In general, this seems to be what CF is actually lacking. The alternate player vs player role archetypes. They are trying to add archetypes with a particular role like support/healing, dps, tank, etc. When they need to relook at what they call specialization that while their combat abilities suck they play the game differently. 

(Disclaimer that you could make a combat viable thief in SB, it just wasn't as straight forward or easy as others.)

Fair enough.  I was too focused on the mechanics described, which were very much "in the middle of combat".  

If they were limited to out of combat, so if hit/caught the thief would start off dizzy/stunned, and once actually in combat they were not able to steal anything, then they would not be too bad.

The idea that in the middle of an actual fight the guy could snag your gear out of you pack is distasteful to me.

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27 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

The idea that in the middle of an actual fight the guy could snag your gear out of you pack is distasteful to me.

If Stealing worked like it did in Shadowbane it would be almost impossible to do in combat.


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Steal Thieves were the ultimate mini-game, especially including the cat and mouse of Scouts and AoE abilities with stances and weapon powers jacking up your attack rating.

I really, really hope CF has a place for steal thieves. I can't think of anyone who ever experienced that part of SB who didn't fall in love with it.

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2 hours ago, Nivhawk said:

Is this one of the things Disciplines is going to address? 

Personally, I think it would be hilariously mischievous to have a discipline like the one OP is discussing. Have I ever experienced it? Nope. Would I be disgruntled if a stealthy little weasel took my stuff? Probably.. But then.. The hunt is on. 

Hopefully!

27 minutes ago, Jah said:

If Stealing worked like it did in Shadowbane it would be almost impossible to do in combat.

Agreed. 

People need to realize that player vs player is not all about combat. The more player vs player thats not about spamming powers and taking or giving hit points, the better the dynamic can be.

And stealing is the equalizer. Stealth is a actual combat focus. So you may not be able to beat a person that train stat increase combat but you might be able to nab some of their stuff. Alternatively, if you mess up and get killed you lose everything.

 

Todd did say during the last AMA that he 'hoped' it would make it in to the game. So its on the radar at least. This was moonths ago, i wonder where they stand on it at this point.


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37 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

Steal Thieves were the ultimate mini-game, especially including the cat and mouse of Scouts and AoE abilities with stances and weapon powers jacking up your attack rating.

I really, really hope CF has a place for steal thieves. I can't think of anyone who ever experienced that part of SB who didn't fall in love with it.

Thief was my main in Shadowbane. Fell in love with the thief instantly. I ran around with a shade thief and having the 41 hide was a good way to confuse a scout, hehe, plus hide that high was essentially insta-cast making it easy to re-stealth after a successful steal.

28 minutes ago, Vectious said:

Todd did say during the last AMA that he 'hoped' it would make it in to the game. So its on the radar at least. This was moonths ago, i wonder where they stand on it at this point.

I really hope they still plan for this. It adds so much more to the game.

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On 3/15/2017 at 11:57 AM, Jah said:

If Stealing worked like it did in Shadowbane it would be almost impossible to do in combat.

Haha exactly. It would be hard to peek them, find the item you want, then make sure they are still in range when you finally use your steal skill, hehe. This would definitely work on gatherers though.

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