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Are purchased EK parcels pay to win?


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So, with the introduction to EK's I went to check over the parcels at the store. Now I remember from the FAQ (checked it: g0KexxH.png)

that DEVs claimed you wouldn't be able to buy ANYTHING that offers and in-game advantage. Now, while I say the size and the population of an EK seem like an advantage, I'm more curious about the offered parcels that say they produce a material (like hardwood) in the store. Are these materials for cosmetic things or will everyone have access to them instantly? Do we have any info on this because it certainly seems like a pay to win advantage.

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"Does the phrase "pay to win" have any objective meaning at all?"            - "No." "Are thread titles posed as questions always click-bait?"            - "Yes."

Barbie's Dream House isnt Pay to Win.  It is there because too many tears were spilt and people quit when you destroyed their cities in SB.  Now you get to keep your castle and lick your wounds after

Id rather be a GOAT Open World PvPer than the best arena PvPer any day.  The rewards are just better.  Arena gives you bragging rights.  Open World PvP gives me things like salty tears and all the pha

We don't know. It depends on how difficult they are to get in game, how material an advantage being able to harvest nodes in EKs is (some expensive ones will have actual resources, compared to the cobblestone and knotwood we find in cheap ones), and how strong of an advantage having a fort to place buildings inside is.

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This is what I am wondering myself. The FAQ mentions that Forts, Keeps, Castles, etc. will increase your EKs concurrent player cap (meaning more people can be on your world at the same time) as well as increase the max # of buildings for that Parcel and increases your EKs visibility in the EK list when players search to enter one.

If the Forts, Keeps, Castles, etc. that you buy from the store also give you this added bonus, then I consider that pay to win. Since the majority of the economy of the entire game will be run in the EKs of the players, then if a single player can hold 1000+ players in his/her epic EK, then they will monopolize all the business, claim all the taxes and reap all the benefits from having players in your EK. I am hoping for a cap of maybe 100 that most players could reach fairly easily with some dedication to your EK. Having queues to join the best EKs is a good thing. This spreads business to EKs who are still building up and allows the more popular EKs to charge more taxes to the vassals due to their EK being so popular.

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28 minutes ago, rotocious said:

Since the majority of the economy of the entire game will be run in the EKs of the players...

This is not true at all though. Competitive PvP guilds might spend 100% of their playtime in Campaign Worlds and never go into an EK. If you play on a no-import ruleset CWs, there is no reason to build up an EK other than for fun and the social/community aspect of it. Also remember that all the good resources (above grey) for crafting are found in the Campaign Worlds, not the EKs.

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59 minutes ago, sardanapalos_qq said:

Whether one would need 3 hours or 50 hours of grinding to get them, they are still pay to win, right? This doesn't seem like good practice to me.

No. If it costs $500 to get an item that takes 3 minutes to get with in game effort, that's not pay to win, no matter how important that item is.

Edited by ringhloth
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25 minutes ago, miraluna said:

This is not true at all though. Competitive PvP guilds might spend 100% of their playtime in Campaign Worlds and never go into an EK. If you play on a no-import ruleset CWs, there is no reason to build up an EK other than for fun and the social/community aspect of it. Also remember that all the good resources (above grey) for crafting are found in the Campaign Worlds, not the EKs.

This isn't true. EKs need to be developed to contain relics, which provide benefits in campaigns. And not all good resources might be in campaign worlds. There are certainly tiers of parcels, which seem to cover something over than size. They have stated that they want EKs to be the market hubs, so we might see interactions between EKs and campaign worlds greater than the import/embargo mechanics already mentioned.

Edited by ringhloth
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1 hour ago, ringhloth said:

This isn't true. EKs need to be developed to contain relics, which provide benefits in campaigns. And not all good resources might be in campaign worlds. There are certainly tiers of parcels, which seem to cover something over than size. They have stated that they want EKs to be the market hubs, so we might see interactions between EKs and campaign worlds greater than the import/embargo mechanics already mentioned.

Ah, I haven't even thought of relics/artifacts maybe giving cross-campaign benefits. I knew they were going to have them be server-wide (the entire EK benefits) and localized (must stand near it), but having some of them be cross-campaign makes a lot of sense too. It would be of great importance for guilds to collect all relics/atrifacts that would help their guildmates in any/all campaigns. This opens another possible way to make it P2W, but another cool aspect that I would love to see in game.

 

I really think it all comes down to how many other players each EK can hold. Set a low maximum so that the player population spreads across more than just a few EKs. Since we know that the majority of players will try to avoid EKs as much as they can, the total number of concurrent players in EKs will always remain pretty low. I imagine that only 10% or less of all players logged into servers will be on an EK server, so if total pop is 100k players, thats 10k players in EKs with 1000+ player caps meaning 10 players or less could rule the economy with their massive EKs. Make it 100 max population per EK (maybe start at 10 and slowly adds up to 100 with use of parcels/buildings) and then there would be 100+ players who can control the economy.

 

Edit: Also, with a low max population for EKs, like 100, the very large guilds of over 100 players may even choose to work on more than 1 EK for their guild, allowing more players to experience the EK aspect if they so wish. Otherwise you just build it for yourself and a few others and that's not that much fun if you want to make it your main focus.

Edited by Slashin8r
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3 hours ago, coolwaters said:

"Does the phrase "pay to win" have any objective meaning at all?"

           - "No."

"Are thread titles posed as questions always click-bait?"

           - "Yes."

+1

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4 hours ago, coolwaters said:

"Does the phrase "pay to win" have any objective meaning at all?"

           - "No."

"Are thread titles posed as questions always click-bait?"

           - "Yes."

That doesn't mean it's an important discussion (though it's a little annoying having to post "we don't really know if it's pay to win, because the mechanics that might be pay to win aren't in the game" every day or so).

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Barbie's Dream House isnt Pay to Win.  It is there because too many tears were spilt and people quit when you destroyed their cities in SB.  Now you get to keep your castle and lick your wounds after you get defeated.  

You might be able to make a Pay to Win argument for the outer ring worlds where you can bring in more equipment from the EKs.  However, that is just scrub land and does not have the higher tiered materials that you want.  Teamwork and political alliances are going to be more important than how awesome your EK is.  

So, EKs maybe Pay to Win if all you do is hang out in EKs and the Campaign Worlds with bumpers and training wheels. 

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7 hours ago, miraluna said:

This is not true at all though. Competitive PvP guilds might spend 100% of their playtime in Campaign Worlds and never go into an EK. If you play on a no-import ruleset CWs, there is no reason to build up an EK other than for fun and the social/community aspect of it. Also remember that all the good resources (above grey) for crafting are found in the Campaign Worlds, not the EKs.

This brings another point, too. In low tier CW's, the people who buy parcels are going to have an EXTREME advantage, since the materials are pretty much the same. Also even if 1 parcel takes 1 hour to farm (which I doubt), to max them you'd need a TON of time, or 4-digit numbers. At the end of the day this is a crowdfunded game and promises have been made, I would really like an official answer to that.

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7 hours ago, miraluna said:

This is not true at all though. Competitive PvP guilds might spend 100% of their playtime in Campaign Worlds and never go into an EK. If you play on a no-import ruleset CWs, there is no reason to build up an EK other than for fun and the social/community aspect of it. Also remember that all the good resources (above grey) for crafting are found in the Campaign Worlds, not the EKs.

No, what's really going to happen is that someone is going to spend time creating mini battlegrounds in their EKs and the top pvpers will play a more arena like XvX setting in EKs with most of their time. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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5 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

No, what's really going to happen is that someone is going to spend time creating mini battlegrounds in their EKs and the top pvpers will play a more arena like XvX setting in EKs with most of their time. 

Pann's got that covered already ;)

https://crowfall.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/newlobby1.png

tiPrpwh.png

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21 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

No, what's really going to happen is that someone is going to spend time creating mini battlegrounds in their EKs and the top pvpers will play a more arena like XvX setting in EKs with most of their time. 

What kind of carebear PvPer is going to be in a mini battleground in an EK?  The real question is how many accounts will I need to be able to always gank characters in the Campaign Worlds?

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3 minutes ago, zolaz said:

What kind of carebear PvPer is going to be in a mini battleground in an EK?  The real question is how many accounts will I need to be able to always gank characters in the Campaign Worlds?

Here's how competitive pvp breaks down as far as skill goes.  Arena PvPers > Organized battlegrounds PvPers > Open world PvPers.  It's not a matter of being carebear, it's a matter of players wanting to test their skills as much as possible.  I don't mind players organizing PvP events in CWs, and I do think the concept of letting someone build their own amazing PvP setup in an EK is neat too, but I do think having the option to PvP in EKs is going to distract from the CWs and ultimately the best PvPers are going to be spending their time in more arena like settings than worrying about Open world PvP. 

I believe this is one thing ACE may underestimate and I kind of wish in the spirit of old mmos there was zero instanced PvP. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Just now, VIKINGNAIL said:

Here's how competitive pvp breaks down as far as skill goes.  Arena PvPers > Organized battlegrounds PvPers > Open world PvPers.  It's not a matter of being carebear, it's a matter of players wanting to test their skills as much as possible.  I don't mind players organizing PvP events in CWs, and I do think the concept of letting someone build their own amazing PvP setup in an EK is neat too, but I do think having the option to PvP in EKs is going to distract from the CWs and ultimately the best PvPers are going to be spending their time in more arena like settings than worrying about Open world PvP. 

Id rather be a GOAT Open World PvPer than the best arena PvPer any day.  The rewards are just better.  Arena gives you bragging rights.  Open World PvP gives me things like salty tears and all the phat lewtz that people are carrying on them.  Plus, while you are finely honing your skills to razors edge, I got to kick over someone's sand castle.

I just hope that JTodd and crew give griefers some tools to sign their name to their actions.  Some type of sprayable Tag to leave behind on the rubble?  Or the ability to craft a billboard that can take those tags?  Well, one can hope.

 

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Just now, zolaz said:

Id rather be a GOAT Open World PvPer than the best arena PvPer any day.  The rewards are just better.  Arena gives you bragging rights.  Open World PvP gives me things like salty tears and all the phat lewtz that people are carrying on them.  Plus, while you are finely honing your skills to razors edge, I got to kick over someone's sand castle.

I just hope that JTodd and crew give griefers some tools to sign their name to their actions.  Some type of sprayable Tag to leave behind on the rubble?  Or the ability to craft a billboard that can take those tags?  Well, one can hope.

 

But none of that matters to competitive pvpers, what matters is being the absolute best in skill.  I'd love for this particular game to be about kicking castles over, I really don't want instanced PvP, because games have done that to death, and it distracts from good old fashioned open world pvp.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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