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Exterminans

Should crafting require you to risk it all?

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Lets face it, losing all your hard earned components you spent hours grinding away to get sucks because you had a 97% chance to successfully craft an item and failed. Equally, it sucks if you had a 50% chance and failed.

Why not reward people for having a higher chance while not completely betting hours and hours worth of work on what is essentially RNG? At the worst case scenario in most quasi-realistic settings even some materials would be salvageable.

I would like to see an end to the all or nothing approach that crafting has right now and moved to a tier-based approach by changing the word "chance" to "ability". When crafting an item, one would use their "ability" to craft it - and it would create something. The higher the ability, the higher the chance to create good or perfect items, while the lower the ability, the higher the chance to create useless, sub-par, and bad items. Grade would be a simple multiplier of the units base stats. Simply have it so that upon crafting, there is a 50% variance in grade based upon the persons original "ability". Someone with 1% ability would max out at 50% item grade, aka .5*(normal base stats) while someone with 75% ability would have a range of .25 through 1.25*(base stats). A weighed approach to the math would be nice to ensure that there are less rather than more random occurrences of awesome gear being made, although it would need to be more in depth that what I can quickly come up with.

To sum it up - every crafting attempt would be successful  at creating the item in question - but every item would not be equal.

To further the idea of not overly punishing for RNG - also it would be nice to allow "failures" to be salvaged back for a % of the total resources used in its production.

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I would say if they added in an option to cap your creation at above average quality for no risk of items that would be better and fit the risk/reward policy they've always gone for. It let's those of us that don't mind losing take the risk and those that do can play it safe for lesser gains.

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FFS people...

I spent a couple hours crafting tools this afternoon.  I made roughly 45, pretty evenly divided betweens greens and blues.

During this entire time, I had zero assembly fails...

I can't help but wonder whether all the folks who are bitching and moaning about crafting failures actually have much training time invested in crafting...

(Don't get me wrong, I know that crafting failures can happen and I understand that there are currently some bugs.  But the sheer amount of time that folks spend bitching about this seems way disproportionate to the frequency with which crafting failures happen these days)

 

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1 hour ago, Dominate said:

Please try to distinguish between crafting failures for Alpha testing - which is very stupid, from crafting failures on final assembly - which is also stupid.

 

It needs to be in alpha so they can find things like the bug that causes unnatural strings of failures. And what's stupid about it? I've yet to see a single argument other than "it's frustrating" or "It takes so many materials". In the first case, big deal. In the second, you can't judge that yet because there are no factories and most people are doing their own gathering, which means they probably lack the skills in at least one of gathering or using the material in question, so are working with inaccurate knowledge.

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3 hours ago, narsille said:

FFS people...

I spent a couple hours crafting tools this afternoon.  I made roughly 45, pretty evenly divided betweens greens and blues.

During this entire time, I had zero assembly fails...

I can't help but wonder whether all the folks who are bitching and moaning about crafting failures actually have much training time invested in crafting...

(Don't get me wrong, I know that crafting failures can happen and I understand that there are currently some bugs.  But the sheer amount of time that folks spend bitching about this seems way disproportionate to the frequency with which crafting failures happen these days)

 

FFS, did you miss the fact that Gordon has stated there is a known issue with RNG not functioning properly leading to 'failure chains'? Why are people still posting about their lack of failures, as if it somehow proves that the people who have experienced statistically impossible failure rates are lying? The fact that you made 45 tools and did not fail means NOTHING. You say you understand there are 'some bugs' yet you appear to lay the blame at the feet of the people affected not having invested much time in crafting...as if 95 - 97% were not enough for them to find signficant failures something to gripe about...

This attitude is exactly why this is such a problem. People who have NOT experienced these fails, telling the people who have that their issue and complaints are invalid. If someone has spent hours collecting materials and crafting components, and has a string of failures - such as losing 3 Amazing bars, 1 after the other - or losing all of the work on the final craft, that IS something to gripe about. The fact that this is due to 'some bugs' only makes this bitching more important. It wasn't until a critical mass of people had suffered the Take Bug that ACE decided to focus on it and kill it.

So yeah, I see your FFS and raise you a WTF.

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4 hours ago, Anthrage said:

FFS, did you miss the fact that Gordon has stated there is a known issue with RNG not functioning properly leading to 'failure chains'? \

How did the line go in my original post...  Oh yeah "I understand that there are currently some bugs."

If people were making arguments like "Bugs are frustrating" I'd have a little sympathy.  (Not much because we're testing, but some).  However, what (most) people are actually saying is "get rid of failures" or "give us back materials" which is not specific to an implementation which is buggier than expected.

And oh, btw, I have seen the "failure chain"in action when crafting potions.

I'd be quite surprised if it is manifesting itself in final assembly for complex pieces...  (There is too much other stuff going on to break up dependencies)

 

 

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13 hours ago, narsille said:

How did the line go in my original post...  Oh yeah "I understand that there are currently some bugs."

If people were making arguments like "Bugs are frustrating" I'd have a little sympathy.  (Not much because we're testing, but some).  However, what (most) people are actually saying is "get rid of failures" or "give us back materials" which is not specific to an implementation which is buggier than expected.

And oh, btw, I have seen the "failure chain"in action when crafting potions.

I'd be quite surprised if it is manifesting itself in final assembly for complex pieces...  (There is too much other stuff going on to break up dependencies)

 

 

My original suggestion doesnt get rid of failures, nor give back materials (although i did suggest a separate salvaging mechanic at the end, although I agree that it shouldnt be nearly the entire amount). It merely softens the blow of failure. The system seems to me to force everyone into an unrealistic "hardcore" mode. I do enjoy the suggestion above about the possibility of gambling all of ones components/resources in order to create very powerful items.

 

It just seems to me that it is a mechanic that doesn't quite fit with an RPG - it doesnt encourage people to try things unless they are complete masters of it. Even some raider with very low skill level and low mental acuity can fashion some sort of armor out of a collection of metal and leather. He won't end up with empty hands asking himself where all his metal and leather went. Now clearly the odds of him making armor that is on the same level as a master blacksmith are slim to none - however he will indeed be able to make armor. My first reaction upon failing the first time to make a hilt was "crap, now I need to try to solder the pommel back on again - wait wtf, where did the pommel go? Wait, where is the grip? everything is gone?"

Depending RNG to not cause you to lose everything you are gambling makes it exactly that - a gamble. Might as well plug your resources into a slot machine and hope for the best. By creating a grade of items, it becomes more immersive and encouraging people to try things they might not otherwise.

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