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Just say no to: "Hold F to Gather"


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I wouldn't want a toggle. That is way too boring. While I do not mind holding F while gathering I think this can be a little more engaging though.

In Wildstar there was a timed interval to press F mechanic. This interval could change so you had to pay attention when to press the key. Great for bot prevention and kept players engaged.

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I just want a toggle. Press F once and wait. Two reasons. The obvious: my poor finger. I have to rotate fingers when I'm harvesting for hours. Please don't contribute to carpal tunnels. Won't any

There has to be a better system to gathering, than just HOLD F.   This game is entirely dependent on resource gathering.  Every aspect of the game requires resources. To get those resources,

Having to watch your back while gathering and/or bring friends for back-up seems kind of engaging to me.

Would something like all the survival games harvesting work (like ark/rust/7 days/h1z1/everything else)? Equip the tool bring it out and hold left click/mash left click over the thing you wanna harvest to damage it and get mats to drop, that way you can move around and just smack the ore.

And Just like with certain archetypes that have alt skills, assign a hot swap to something like "Y" then when you hit Y you bring out the first tool in your list, then if you continue to press "Y" you can cycle through them, or just make a wheel and when you hold "Y" drag your mouse to the tool you want and pull out that tool. and any time you wanna swap back to your actually archetype skills just press "T" to return to the tray you were using before pulling out the tool

Then they could even start toying with the idea of possible harvesting based skills that you unlock deeper in the trees for stuff to add to the tray when you have a tool equipped (i might be remembering wrong cause its been like 3+ years but i think ff14 had something like that) which could improve interactivity slightly. Do you pop your enhance tool spell now for a 2 min buff knowing it has a 30min (give or take) cool down or do you wait till you find a better patch of ores with a few extra motherload ores then pop the skill? or something like that idk.

 

Edit: Heck on the note of equipping the tool and changing the basic attack to a harvest attack ability, make more harvesting modifiers for armor and stuff (kinda like my pistol i made once that had beneficial harvesting ores on it) that gives you something like "harvesting attack speed" or "harvesting damage" then you can add a whole new layer of stats people want for their armors and such. Get high mitigation stats and some harvesting bonuses and have a harvesting set equipped then if stuff gets dicey swap to your combat armors or something.

 

Edit 2: Also this will stop that dam BS that happens when a rock is to close to an ore where your mining your ores all hunky dory then you walk up to the one near the rock and even though your looking at the freakin ore your hammer starts to channel and your like "NO GOD DAM IT GAME I WANT THE ORE NOT THE ROCK" then you gotta fidget around the ore till you get that sweet spot where it lets you mine it. If you had to have the tool out/equipped looking at the ore and hitting it would always result in ore progress and never pull out a hammer for no reason. (if this has been fixed already praise Jesus but if not >.> seriously Eff that noise)

Edited by ShadowwBoi13
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6 hours ago, kendogg said:

I think the thought process behind the button is that it prevents someone from looking around while they are harvesting, in effect being able to watch their own back.  As long as you still have to target the node to continue to harvest, a toggle versus holding down shouldn't really matter more than saving wear and tear on our fingers.  IMO something they could make an option without breaking balance.

That's a fair point but wouldn't the same thing be accomplished by a toggle-able button and locking the camera? Surely they don't think holding a key deters potential botters anymore than click to harvest, do they?

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Please note, i'm not saying my suggestion is the best.  I just think SOMETHING better can be made for such a crucial part of the game.  

I think we have all been conditioned to the notion that gathering has to be this boring, task-oriented, little thing instead of something.. better.

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8 hours ago, Nivhawk said:

Except his point is that it doesn't work. Yours is clearly the opposite. Be okay with that, and please desist from telling people to bug off if they disagree.

My opinion, for fun, is the current harvesting system is not engaging- and I've put dozens of hours into testing it. Harvesting mini games aren't my flavor but I can see the appeal. Personally, I'm okay with the hold F staying IF they allow us to move our camera after we've initiated the harvest animation. The biggest thing for me is you must keep your reticle focused on the harvested item and I find that really confining. It makes a 10 second harvest that much more boring. Let us look around to scope out the next thing to harvest, look at the environment, or look out for players.

The gathering system does work fine. If it isn't for you, then maybe just do something besides gathering. There's plenty to do in every MMO, and that's fine. Crowfall already has a ton of bloat, and a fancy gathering system doesn't need to come into that. Still, yes, we should be able to move our camera around, look at our inventory, etc.

6 hours ago, Avloren said:

I just want a toggle. Press F once and wait. Two reasons.

Yeah, this should be obvious. Not really sure why we have to hold F.

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Final Fantasy 14, even before a realm reborn, had a decent gathering system that actually used player skill to increase chances of getting rare rewards and was simple. The problem that it was still botable easily.

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FF14 -  
 

 

Edited by xpiher
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6 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

The gathering system does work fine. If it isn't for you, then maybe just do something besides gathering. There's plenty to do in every MMO, and that's fine. Crowfall already has a ton of bloat, and a fancy gathering system doesn't need to come into that. Still, yes, we should be able to move our camera around, look at our inventory, etc.

Yeah, this should be obvious. Not really sure why we have to hold F.

No. Being able to look around makes *NATURAL* stealth useless.

Edited by xpiher
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7 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

The gathering system does work fine. If it isn't for you, then maybe just do something besides gathering. There's plenty to do in every MMO, and that's fine. Crowfall already has a ton of bloat, and a fancy gathering system doesn't need to come into that. Still, yes, we should be able to move our camera around, look at our inventory, etc.

Yeah, this should be obvious. Not really sure why we have to hold F.

There's arguments for both sides- which, if anything, suggests the system be given more attention considering we're still so early in the project's development. 
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Also, the interdependence between crafters-harvesters-PvPers is already so strong- the argument to keep the camera movement restriction is somewhat redundant to reinforcing that trifecta. 

It comes down to pretty basic terms in regards to priority: harvester's boredom or stealther's opportunity. Stealthers are generally opportunistic classes anyways, I think calling natural stealth useless if they removed camera lock is not accurate. You would still have the less vigilant harvesters, or distracted harvesters, not looking for stealthers- then boom, your chance. Why do they have to be sitting ducks for you guys? :P

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15 minutes ago, Nivhawk said:

There's arguments for both sides- which, if anything, suggests the system be given more attention considering we're still so early in the project's development. 
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Also, the interdependence between crafters-harvesters-PvPers is already so strong- the argument to keep the camera movement restriction is somewhat redundant to reinforcing that trifecta. 

It comes down to pretty basic terms in regards to priority: harvester's boredom or stealther's opportunity. Stealthers are generally opportunistic classes anyways, I think calling natural stealth useless if they removed camera lock is not accurate. You would still have the less vigilant harvesters, or distracted harvesters, not looking for stealthers- then boom, your chance. Why do they have to be sitting ducks for you guys? :P

It would be largely useless. If given the ability to circle the camera around while harvesting people will have the camera on swivel. Keeping harvesters engaged through the type of system I posted above via FFXIV or through something similar to The Repopulation which allows harvesters to try and buff a resource to another level would be sufficient and add more of an active PvE risk v reward system to crafting.  But meh either way it won't stop me from playing this game when it launches.

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My vote is F to toggle, so we can at least chat while gathering.  Mini game might be okay too, but from experience, they do get old and annoying after 1000 times.

On a somewhat related topic, please allow the re-binding of all keys, including "F", as not everyone prefers WASD.  I assume this is on the to-do list, it's a very desirable feature, especially for F-ing F.

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1 minute ago, Skit said:

My vote is F to toggle, so we can at least chat while gathering.  Mini game might be okay too, but from experience, they do get old and annoying after 1000 times.

On a somewhat related topic, please allow the re-binding of all keys, including "F", as not everyone prefers WASD.  I assume this is on the to-do list, it's a very desirable feature, especially for F-ing F.

I see what you did there ;)

Of the Hawk People

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18 hours ago, Vonpenguin said:

I find the paranoia of being jumped plenty engaging personally. And once the spirit bank is gone and we have to caravan that stuff back manually? As a primary gatherer that'll keep me in the game just fine.

THIZ^...       There is more than holding F.  There is stamina drain (and saving enough to sprint).  There is looking up and around after half or 3/4 of node just to make sure your gawd awful racket didn't summon baddies.  There is an ongoing decision whether your bag of goodies is too valuable to lose to those baddies and you should head home pronto (mounts be best friend)...   THAT is your mini game.   Not feeding the baddies is how a gatherer wins...   feed the baddies and they multiply, starve the baddies and they fall behind gear progression.   Baddies vs Gatherers be mini game.  Don't feed the Baddies!

Edited by Frykka

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11 hours ago, Sciocco said:

I also agree with a toggled F for gathering.

 

I've already had two injections of cortisone into each wrist, let's not make it worse. Thanks.

Honest question, is pressing and holding a button that much more strenuous then pressing and immediately releasing?

Having an option for both ways doesn't seem too much to ask for I agree, though would hope they keep everything else about it the same.

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1 hour ago, Vectious said:

It needs one of those "are you a robot" things then the whole captcha thing needs to be done. Then you can harvest.....by holding down F MUHAHAHAHAHAHA.

That is cruel and unusual. Ya sick .. Custard

Of the Hawk People

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After logging in tons and tons of hours harvesting I think the current system it's perfectly fine.  Adding a mini game to the harvesting system will automatically make me drop the harvesting skill set immediately and switch to full pvp at launch.  Right now with holding F and the nodes being fairly low to the ground causes a raiding player to easily get the jump on a harvester due to the limited vision they have when harvesting.  This forces harvesters to bring back guards or mine in groups so this doesn't happen so it encourages grouping and coordination.  Forcing the player to deal with a mini game with the already limited visibility would be a horrible experience for the harvester and give even more of a benefit to the raiders.

I would support a toggle-able harvesting feature but fear this could easily be abused by botters.  I would support this being added into the game but using this feature should slow down the mining speed (by 50%) and increase the noise that harvesting makes.  This would create a trade off for ease of use but still not make it an easy mode feature.

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