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daegog

Just say no to: "Hold F to Gather"

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1 hour ago, Nivhawk said:

That is cruel and unusual. Ya sick .. Custard

Indeed, i have gone to far this time.

 

But seriously. The holding isint a issue, really. Theres macro's that almost any mouse can be programmed to do. Same with autorun. 

The only real annoyance i have had with harvesting is the camera. Some disagree, i just dont like not being able to look around me while harvesting. 


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In this case, complexity or additional actions/engagements just makes gathering annoying. When you're going to be doing a lot of it over and over, you want it to be simple so you don't drive yourself crazy (and potentially have sore hands from dumb extra button press games). Just make it so you press F once and it auto gathers everything. Simple and easily repeatable. Gathering is what it is and those who want to specialize in that are ok with it. Focus on more important aspects of gameplay. Some things just don't need to be reinvented.

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To make some of you happy ACE needs to talk with Razor and develop a pickaxe, hammer and axe stick.  That way you can stand in front of the computer and harvest your stuff just like your great great grandfather did.  Think of the immersion all of this promises!!  That and it would be hilarious to see the action in the video reveal.


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35 minutes ago, zolaz said:

To make some of you happy ACE needs to talk with Razor and develop a pickaxe, hammer and axe stick.  That way you can stand in front of the computer and harvest your stuff just like your great great grandfather did.  Think of the immersion all of this promises!!  That and it would be hilarious to see the action in the video reveal.

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2 hours ago, zolaz said:

To make some of you happy ACE needs to talk with Razor and develop a pickaxe, hammer and axe stick.  That way you can stand in front of the computer and harvest your stuff just like your great great grandfather did.  Think of the immersion all of this promises!!  That and it would be hilarious to see the action in the video reveal.

Wait, my great grandfather was a bricklayer, does that mean I'm ony allowed to put points in masonry?

gosh darn it.

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4 hours ago, Vectious said:

Indeed, i have gone to far this time.

 

But seriously. The holding isint a issue, really. Theres macro's that almost any mouse can be programmed to do. Same with autorun. 

The only real annoyance i have had with harvesting is the camera. Some disagree, i just dont like not being able to look around me while harvesting. 

You need to concentrate when your using a heavy tool or your strikes would be off...   cutting trees gives you a better field of view.    you should look around partway through the node for a sec anyway if you are in high pop baddie zone with no scouts or pats  nearby.   Harvesting is ACTIVE gameplay and not just a chore, some of us are professionals and actively mitigate the dangers.   Don't FEED the baddies!


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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3 hours ago, Leiloni said:

In this case, complexity or additional actions/engagements just makes gathering annoying. When you're going to be doing a lot of it over and over, you want it to be simple so you don't drive yourself crazy (and potentially have sore hands from dumb extra button press games). Just make it so you press F once and it auto gathers everything. Simple and easily repeatable. Gathering is what it is and those who want to specialize in that are ok with it. Focus on more important aspects of gameplay. Some things just don't need to be reinvented.

Perfectly reasoned, which is very appreciated.  

With due respect, I think you're right only if the competition around nodes is as interesting as you hope it is.

If not, then even a toggled F is exactly the type of dull, repetitive cliché we should replace.  Not by re-inventing it, and not by adding in more irrelevant, repetitive mini-games, but by going back to basics:  engaging, dynamic, consequence laden content.   As another example, try Everspace, where mining is the usual asteroid crap, made interesting by numerous small tweaks:  the imminent arrival of something-as*-kicking if you got too greedy, revealing resources by scanning, collision in tight spaces, the use of harvested resources immediately, space mines, etc.  The game is single-player, but they obviously knew what they were doing, incl just copying FTL.

I pray the competition is epic.

Edited by Dominate

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8 minutes ago, Dominate said:

Perfectly reasoned, which is very appreciated.  

With due respect, I think you're right only if the competition around nodes is as interesting as you hope it is.

If not, then even a toggled F is exactly the type of dull, repetitive cliché we should replace.  Not by re-inventing it, and not by adding in more irrelevant, repetitive mini-games, but by going back to basics:  engaging, dynamic, consequence laden content.   As another example, try Everspace, where mining is the usual asteroid crap, made interesting by numerous small tweaks:  the imminent arrival of something-as*-kicking if you got too greedy, revealing resources by scanning, collision in tight spaces, the use of harvested resources immediately, space mines, etc.  The game is single-player, but they obviously knew what they were doing, incl just copying FTL.

I pray the competition is epic.

What can you do to make gathering interesting without negative effects, though? FFXIV tried that but it was still fairly straightforward.

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18 minutes ago, Dominate said:

Perfectly reasoned, which is very appreciated.  

With due respect, I think you're right only if the competition around nodes is as interesting as you hope it is.

If not, then even a toggled F is exactly the type of dull, repetitive cliché we should replace.  Not by re-inventing it, and not by adding in more irrelevant, repetitive mini-games, but by going back to basics:  engaging, dynamic, consequence laden content.   As another example, try Everspace, where mining is the usual asteroid crap, made interesting by numerous small tweaks:  the imminent arrival of something-as*-kicking if you got too greedy, revealing resources by scanning, collision in tight spaces, the use of harvested resources immediately, space mines, etc.  The game is single-player, but they obviously knew what they were doing, incl just copying FTL.

I pray the competition is epic.

Well its an open world PvP game so that means the consequences are getting killed and your stuff taken if you don't watch your back or bring friends.

Think people are too focused on the act of gathering itself and totally missing the fact that the rest of the game around you is what will make it engaging.

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Just now, Leiloni said:

What can you do to make gathering interesting without negative effects, though? FFXIV tried that but it was still fairly straightforward.

Gathering in some games is actually fun.   There's still time to make it so in Crowfall, but the window is closing.    There was an example tossed out from BDO, but no mention of the good stuff:  roping horses, hunting whales, etc.  Hundreds of ways.

I'm not sure they should make it fun, vs just not make it tedious throughout a campaign.  ACE should know, based on their knowledge of where players are designed to spend their time.  We don't have POIs, sieges, caravans.  I'm more worried about harvesting being boring at the end of campaigns, and again and again in EKs and future campaigns.  That is enough for me to simply not want to harvest, period.

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So the devs are talking about FACING whilst striking an opponent.   The improvement to the existing harvesting mechanic would go along the same lines...   there is a discernable side of a node that produces better results, a sweet spot that you either get lucky and hit or have a skill trained up that makes the sweet spot glow or something.   Also another train node would identify a sweet spot on motherlodes that give a higher chance for gems/minerals...   these skill nodes are way out the tree... T5ish.   When you hit the sweet spot with the skill trained the sound made is different so you know it...   there should be like 8-10 faces on a node do you have a 8% chance of added critical harvest.  There's your mini-game.

Also any autoattack on a node should cause a loss of concentration delay on stopping the strikes   or better yet make autoharvest be the mode that puts you out of combat and vulnerable to dizzy down whilst holding F keeps you in combat with slightly slower swing speed (not penetration) so a highly trained gatherer (with deeper pen) can be more prepared for the gank and the plebs get their automode.

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Just now, pang said:

Well its an open world PvP game so that means the consequences are getting killed and your stuff taken if you don't watch your back or bring friends.

Think people are too focused on the act of gathering itself and totally missing the fact that the rest of the game around you is what will make it engaging.

If so, I'm surprised they're so easily confused.  If the rest of the game is engaging, it's mostly engaging.  If not, particularly if harvesting is a large fraction of activity, it's dull.  Pressure on, PvP.

The game already has code to prove they're somewhat concerned:  we're not given big X's on the ground and told to stand there until challenged.  Crowfall has above average variety on resource types, but IMO below average creativity invested in the activity itself.  It's standard MMO.  The question is whether this development is sufficient considering the relative importance of harvesting, and whether we have enough info to know.

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3 hours ago, Frykka said:

So the devs are talking about FACING whilst striking an opponent.   The improvement to the existing harvesting mechanic would go along the same lines...   there is a discernable side of a node that produces better results, a sweet spot that you either get lucky and hit or have a skill trained up that makes the sweet spot glow or something.   Also another train node would identify a sweet spot on motherlodes that give a higher chance for gems/minerals...   these skill nodes are way out the tree... T5ish.   When you hit the sweet spot with the skill trained the sound made is different so you know it...   there should be like 8-10 faces on a node do you have a 8% chance of added critical harvest.  There's your mini-game.

Also any autoattack on a node should cause a loss of concentration delay on stopping the strikes   or better yet make autoharvest be the mode that puts you out of combat and vulnerable to dizzy down whilst holding F keeps you in combat with slightly slower swing speed (not penetration) so a highly trained gatherer (with deeper pen) can be more prepared for the gank and the plebs get their automode.

 

Now this idea I could get behind. I already rotate around the node to get the best view of incoming lanes of attack. Hold F for the best chances to find the sweet spot but toggle f for easier mode and lower returns.(say Shift F for the toggle mode)

Wonderful idea Frykka!

 

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Minigames become boring but standing in place holding a button is the gameplay mechanic of the century.

I just don't get it.

Personally I wouldn't mind if ACE would use this as an opportunity to test some things out, I actually thought that's what we were here for. Not saying it's a priority even, as far as I'm concerned it could be after launch, but I know I'm a minority in that respect.People will complain, some will rage quit, meanwhile I've been trying to sell my pledge ever since this became apparent and I'm still waiting using it meanwhile to realize this game is real boring to me.

I'd like to sell an amber patron level 2016 through the trusted trader of your choice, as long as I get more then 50% back because noone wants to buy the game anymore and the trusted traders obviously have no trust in buying the package back as is. If you feel compelled to buy an amber 2k16 package, pm me we'll work something out (hopefully)


Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

-a very satisfied customer-

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11 hours ago, pang said:

Honest question, is pressing and holding a button that much more strenuous then pressing and immediately releasing?

Having an option for both ways doesn't seem too much to ask for I agree, though would hope they keep everything else about it the same.

Much? No. A little bit easier? Yes. Tapping a key every x number of seconds can feel better over a longer period of time then holding a key down for quite a few seconds out of every slightly more seconds. I could live with holding F down but I'd prefer the less pain option.


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I have a few things to say about this. At first I was fine with having to hold f to harvest anything for the first ten minutes, but after doing it to gather enough mats to craft a full set of plate armor I was already sick of having to walk up to a tree, stand perfectly still and hit f and hold it ever single time. It wasn't rewarding or engaging it was a chore. I get they are trying to go for realism or w/e but at the end of the day this is a game and there is such thing as to much realism in it. Are guys really gonna tell me you enjoyed having to walk up to a tree stand perfectly steal and hold f down just to make an axe swing? Some of you really found  it to be that engaging, rewarding, and immersive  having to stand still and hold that button down just to get some logs? Come on man not one single person felt super rewarded after the 80 times having to do that. SO as much of a fun idea of having to hold down the f button sounded I really think they should change it to something else. Now I know its pre-alpha and anything can change, but I am not talking about what could be I am talking about what is in the game now and it adds a level of annoyance that I can't see how anyone would want to keep in the game. That is just how I feel about it.  

Edited by TJB0ND

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You could hold F to deploy spirit thrall to gather, and you must defend it.  Especially on large nodes or points of interest could be a better method than just standing in front of a node swinging a spirit tool.  You could interact with the thrall to gain access to the thrall's inventory to grab the resources.  In this way you could have your thrall (say lumberjack for example) harvest trees, and you decide when it stops by accessing its inventory.  It could go from tree to tree without stopping, or stone node to stone node etc.   A crafted thrall could have various durations or bonuses.  Your crafted runes could be equiped to the thrall instead of you.   Or just f to deploy thrall, defend it, get resources when finished.  As simple or as complicated as you want, without throwing out the crafting plans.  If you want something besides hold F to swing rune anyways.

Edited by goqua

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5 hours ago, Anthrage said:

Of all the F'ing things in CF I give an F about, HOLDING F is not one of them. If they waste 5 minutes on this 'issue' before release, I will F someone up.

Yep this.

Like I said above everything else in the game around gathering is what will make it engaging and dynamic. Its an open world PvP game so you always have to be aware of being attacked while gathering, then you have to transport your goods safely back to your base or wherever, I mean the actual act of gathering is such a miniscule part of the process. At most make a toggles between hold to gather or click once to gather but yeah anything beyond that would be a waste of time, IMO.

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17 hours ago, Frykka said:

You need to concentrate when your using a heavy tool or your strikes would be off...   cutting trees gives you a better field of view.    you should look around partway through the node for a sec anyway if you are in high pop baddie zone with no scouts or pats  nearby.   Harvesting is ACTIVE gameplay and not just a chore, some of us are professionals and actively mitigate the dangers.   Don't FEED the baddies!

Actually i tend to watch youtube videos instead of 'concentrate' on holding F. 

Professional button holders, sounds about right.

Thats sort of the point, its not active gameplay its holding a button staring at something. And its because the game sorta forces you in to that. Now if you could look around as you harvested, the game play is then more active, not by much but its something. 

 

Just to be clear, i have never been successfully ganked while harvesting( i have been successfully ganked, just not while harvesting. <3). There is enough time between nodes to scope things out to make sure no one is approaching. 

I just find it annoyingly restricting more than anything else. And as for immersion, looking behind you out of combat should break whatever immersion the camera is supposed to provide. 


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