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ACE Q&A for April - Official discussion thread

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1 hour ago, Hauntled said:

Always an exciting day of the month seeing a Q&A on my feed. 

I am personally looking forward to the stalker archetype, I think a blood hungry elk that can shoot giant arrows and go stealth is a pretty darn cool. (or what ever it turns out to be)

Thanks for the update guys. 

Yeah same here been looking forward to the Stalker aka the Murder Deer since I first saw concept art of it.

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16 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

Worrying about the numbers that will be adjusted? You've completely missed my point sir. I'm not worried about wether CON is giving too many HPs or not enough. I'm not worrying about wether +resource gear isn't balanced with +crushing damage gear. That would be "worrying about the numbers which will be adjusted" (although that feedback is also valuable for the Developers). What I have asked for, repeatedly, and politely, is some insights as to how the systems are designed to function together. Part of the problem is inconsistent tool tips and a lack of a consistent referencing system. We get 4%, .4, .4% and .04 all depending upon the item/skill/power/etc. Its very difficult to discern what the intended consequence of adding that enhancement or training that node really is. Secondly, while we did get a video explaining attributes/statistics/pools/skills back in 2015, a lot has been added since then. We ultimately don't know how these systems ended up interacting. The video was shot just prior to the Vessel/Crow reveal and its still not clear how this is going to work. Blissful ignorance is exactly what you're apparently content with.

"Hi ho, hi ho..its off to test I go...I don't need to know if this skill is broken or not...or whether my uber Templar healing is as designed...I'm just a tester...testing the game...blissful in my ignorance of how its meant to work. I'm sure the Devs are logging all my game footage and will be able to figure out if CON is working correctly...or +resource is working correctly...or AC is working correctly...without my having to tell them...since I don't know how its suppose to work in the first place...and couldn't tell them if it was broken even if it was... Hi ho...hi ho..its off to test I go..." 

It's more like it is inefficient to worry about whether CON is working correctly, when the part of the test where they really hammer out CON interactions isn't here yet. 

Again it's not blissful ignorance, it's efficiency.  You wouldn't worry about triangles if they are focused on circles right now and plan to focus on triangles later. 

You may have a curiosity as to how things work, I personally find it inefficient to worry too much about that stuff right now because it's all going to change a lot, so the only reason you would need to know how it works now is if your intent was to streamline your builds and gear now, which of course doesn't matter in the long term.  And I mean if that's what you want to do, there's nothing wrong with that, but when it starts to frustrate you then maybe it is the wrong approach.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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8 minutes ago, Tark said:

I agree with VN mostly on the point that we shouldn't worry about numbers at this point. They've stated on multiple occasions that some things are just placeholders and that they will make another pass in the future to iron things out. When that happens I imagine we will have a lot more systems in place and full stat sheets and that will be the time to worry about bugs in relation to statistics. I don't think everything is quite hooked together yet and there are some missing links.

Grad does bring up great points. He is very inquisitive by nature and likes to have a working knowledge of how things work. So I respect and understand his frustration on that. As for the Q&A sessions, they are answering questions from the ACE forums. There aren't really a whole lot of posts in that forum from month to month and they dont have a big pool of questions to pick from. Sometimes the questions are very generic and the get very generic answers. Some of them are just rehashes of old questions. The Explorer question was a question I personally asked and I was pleased with the answer, even though they didn't necessarily give me any specific details. Blair's enthusiastic response to expanding Explorer capabilities was enough to make me feel comfortable that he is aware of the situation and will work on it later. That was all I needed to be happy.

I don't need to know how armor works right now. They have plainly said that right now that basic armor is there because they want us to use it for testing. They also said that for the other armor to be interesting we need to get thralls and factories online. If you've done any amount of crafting in this game you would know what a tedious process it is. Factories will help with that and also add a different layer. People specializing in factories will be able to further improve a blueprint and make the end item better. If you come from galaxies you know exactly what this entails, and if you love to craft then you know this system will be amazing once its finished.

You're right Tark. You don't need to know how armor works right now. You don't need to know if training up Armor Class is working to increase damage mitigation. You don't need to know any of it really. Why do we have any tool tips at all? Why don't we just guess at what "Covered with Flies" actually does? Sounds to me like it should be a poison or disease damage modifier instead of a healing bonus...but wouldn't it be more effective for us as testers if they just removed all the tool tips until things were finalized? I mean, why try to rely on information that might change? Wouldn't it be more efficient just to guess and report the "obvious" bugs? Lets remove all tool tips from all items and skills...and then re-add them back when all systems have been connected and are then working properly. Wouldn't that be more efficient? If its irrelevant for me to understand how the system is designed to work properly...why should they be telling me anything?

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2 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

You're right Tark. You don't need to know how armor works right now. You don't need to know if training up Armor Class is working to increase damage mitigation. You don't need to know any of it really. Why do we have any tool tips at all? Why don't we just guess at what "Covered with Flies" actually does? Sounds to me like it should be a poison or disease damage modifier instead of a healing bonus...but wouldn't it be more effective for us as testers if they just removed all the tool tips until things were finalized? I mean, why try to rely on information that might change? Wouldn't it be more efficient just to guess and report the "obvious" bugs? Lets remove all tool tips from all items and skills...and then re-add them back when all systems have been connected and are then working properly. Wouldn't that be more efficient? If its irrelevant for me to understand how the system is designed to work properly...why should they be telling me anything?

You're being hyperbolic, just because they are bringing up systems in an incomplete manner doesn't mean they shouldn't bring up any system at all until it is completely finished.  In the Q&A video they even talk about various phases for different systems, where they bring up the rough foundation of a system, then worry about the real tweaks in a next phase or a next next phase. 

In regards to tooltips maybe they just want to make sure they have tooltips integrated into the UI, they aren't so much worried about the numbers being dead accurate because they haven't started fully streamlining their numbers and stats towards any sort of consistency and balance yet.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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14 minutes ago, Tark said:

I agree with VN mostly on the point that we shouldn't worry about numbers at this point. They've stated on multiple occasions that some things are just placeholders and that they will make another pass in the future to iron things out. When that happens I imagine we will have a lot more systems in place and full stat sheets and that will be the time to worry about bugs in relation to statistics. I don't think everything is quite hooked together yet and there are some missing links.
 

No poorly made socks.  Last months Q&A was literally titled, "Playable Placeholders".

It would be more productive to comment on what we would eventually like to see, and how gross issues are affecting game play, not fine tooth combing balance numbers on unfinished systems.

Saying things like "30K on any single hit is too much", is productive.

Saying things like "please turn up slash damage 2% on the two handed because reasons", is not.

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20 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

You're right Tark. You don't need to know how armor works right now. You don't need to know if training up Armor Class is working to increase damage mitigation. You don't need to know any of it really. Why do we have any tool tips at all? Why don't we just guess at what "Covered with Flies" actually does? Sounds to me like it should be a poison or disease damage modifier instead of a healing bonus...but wouldn't it be more effective for us as testers if they just removed all the tool tips until things were finalized? I mean, why try to rely on information that might change? Wouldn't it be more efficient just to guess and report the "obvious" bugs? Lets remove all tool tips from all items and skills...and then re-add them back when all systems have been connected and are then working properly. Wouldn't that be more efficient? If its irrelevant for me to understand how the system is designed to work properly...why should they be telling me anything?

I don't know why you are getting hostile. The stats on armor do apply to the stat sheet for the most part. One that doesn't that I can recall is bleeds. Whether they are correct or not is irrelevant right now unless something discovered breaks the game and makes it unplayable. 

 

To answer your question, no it wouldn't be more efficient. They don't want a ton of bug report  hyper focusing on things that might not matter. We don't even have a combat log yet. Another good reason why this type of testing is not efficient.  

There is no way you could reliably test damage mitigation at this point. You need to crawl before you can walk. 


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It's okay, it's fine, it is just a test. It is pre - alpha!
Repeat 1000 times. 

Don't worry there will be a patch that fixes (insert item here) before launch. (Every game ever made)

I know I reported that in (Alpha/beta/release/1st expansion/2nd expansion/after quitting game) - Any tester

Now is the time to ask questions, now is the time to raise a stink about things that are not fun. Now is the time to post on the forums, youtube, twitch, and any boards you go to. 

Of course what am I posting?

12 MINUTE POTIONS!

poorly made socks breaking more than fixing, but at least we have EK's. That you use once and realise no matter what happens it will be the same poorly made socks. Yeah tetris lands is cool. Once.

But with zero functionality to many peoples playstyle for what the game is being sold as. (PVP!!!) Does it really matter? Well until people figure out they can use it as a invite-able battlegrounds pvp instance where they can change the walls and keeps and do real fun poorly made socks there, while importing in all the stuff from the campaign worlds.

So maybe there is a use, until it gets nerfed/taken away.

What else to post about, what else to test. Some classes are broken or nerfed to hell. Hmm you could post about that, but Viking says it is fine and we are all noobs and should leave and take a break. 

You could post about stuff not in yet, but they know all about that. Except for when they don't, but we don't know what they know we don't. Or something. 

So I will try. Here is a list of not fun, to me. Right now. 

Gathering without potions, nor skill.
Gathering with potions, due to 12 minute (up from 10!!!) timer. 
Making tons of potions with resources that I would prefer to use making other things. 
Picks breaking after 15-20 nodes. With some training that may or may not be working.
Basic plate armor that I can't seem to make anything better than. I can make different but I can't make the same.
The passive skill system taking so damn long that testing things is a horrible chore.
The lack of leather due to nerfs/changes/bugs/issues.
EK walls and buildings taking up MASSIVE bank space. I just destroy most of it after I lose patience trying to place walls in a functional yet very clunky system.
Numbers on tooltips being wonky as heck.  
Spending weeks training something in the horribly unfun skills systems then realising it is a placeholder/broke/nonfunctioning node. 
I am sure there are more but meh, Viking will just tell me to take a break. 

 

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1 hour ago, Hauntled said:

Always an exciting day of the month seeing a Q&A on my feed. 

I am personally looking forward to the stalker archetype, I think a blood hungry elk that can shoot giant arrows and go stealth is a pretty darn cool. (or what ever it turns out to be)

Thanks for the update guys. 

Probably will be the "reveal" class and not another "stealth" class from all indications.   Unless you take a stealth disc of course...   but that will probably be one of the most desired/highest value thrall captures in the meta economy.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Interesting thing they mentioned is that you'll be able to take stuff out of your import/export box mid campaign. I wonder if this is going to be "you import things once and then have to slowly take them out over the campaign at a specific location" or a "continually import/export things based on the rules of the campaign.

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38 minutes ago, srathor said:

So I will try. Here is a list of not fun, to me. Right now. 

Gathering without potions, nor skill.
Gathering with potions, due to 12 minute (up from 10!!!) timer. 
Making tons of potions with resources that I would prefer to use making other things. 
Picks breaking after 15-20 nodes. With some training that may or may not be working.
Basic plate armor that I can't seem to make anything better than. I can make different but I can't make the same.
The passive skill system taking so damn long that testing things is a horrible chore.
The lack of leather due to nerfs/changes/bugs/issues.
EK walls and buildings taking up MASSIVE bank space. I just destroy most of it after I lose patience trying to place walls in a functional yet very clunky system.
Numbers on tooltips being wonky as heck.  
Spending weeks training something in the horribly unfun skills systems then realising it is a placeholder/broke/nonfunctioning node. 
I am sure there are more but meh, Viking will just tell me to take a break. 
 

Ok, I get this and we are all just in actuality "mostly" flying blind.  Is a skill node giving a benefit, any benefit, or no benefit is only relevant for playing the game in or testing the current state?  Are you wasting time training a skill node that has no discernable benefit?  In short, Yes, but with the stipulation that this could very well change next month and you could then see that benefit you were hoping for.   Unfortunately once trained we cannot turn the node on and off to measure that benefit...   other players may be able to find, test, and record the new values as they train from 0-100 but once trained and turned on a player cannot measure but may feel the difference.

To note:
Tool power works...   a +5 pick takes 17 swings with my current training, each +10 to tool reduces that by one swing.  +40 tools take 13 swings.  
Tool decay +5% skill nodes work...  a tool in my trained skill line lasts nearly 10 nodes longer than the untrained line.   In other words I make 5 hammers and 8 picks and pretty much break them in an equal number of nodes.

Yes, testing is a tedious test of our patience more than of game systems.   Sorry, reality bites.


 

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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11 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

Interesting thing they mentioned is that you'll be able to take stuff out of your import/export box mid campaign. I wonder if this is going to be "you import things once and then have to slowly take them out over the campaign at a specific location" or a "continually import/export things based on the rules of the campaign.

I do not think that your "personal" bank space, your personal import/export bank, and the GUILD export vault will be the same thing...   I imagine that in a campaign your personal bank will go poof at the conclusion, you "may" get personal export space but probably not.  Since export is based on final position on a leaderboard, I imagine that you pretty much toss everything you want to attempt to save into the guild coffers and the guild leadership fills the export bank with the entire guilds most valuable stuffs...  then the guild gets a percentage of that coming through to your guild EK and your earnings from participation in that campaign are doled out by rank within the guild.   That puts an onus on guild size and how well your guild functions as a governing body...  

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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7 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

Interesting thing they mentioned is that you'll be able to take stuff out of your import/export box mid campaign. I wonder if this is going to be "you import things once and then have to slowly take them out over the campaign at a specific location" or a "continually import/export things based on the rules of the campaign.

I'm hoping that they run it as a "continually import/export things", with rules based not only on the campaign, but also how well your team is doing during the campaign. 

I honestly don't see how an EK economy would possibly work or be interesting if exports are limited to when campaigns close. I also think it's something they can play with to find the right balance. There is no need to get it right the first time out, since new campaigns can be started with more restrictive values if they got flooded with outside materials, or less restrictive if the EK's end up starved for resources.

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Good Q&A ACE!

Like most of people desires (i am another waiting for it), i would love to see the 1st interation of the game cycle CW-EK-CW (with 2nd interation of Crafting and Siege Warfare) into the next testing milestone!

Disciplines would come later to get a glimpse of how this feature can impact game in general... 

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30 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I'm hoping that they run it as a "continually import/export things", with rules based not only on the campaign, but also how well your team is doing during the campaign. 

I honestly don't see how an EK economy would possibly work or be interesting if exports are limited to when campaigns close. I also think it's something they can play with to find the right balance. There is no need to get it right the first time out, since new campaigns can be started with more restrictive values if they got flooded with outside materials, or less restrictive if the EK's end up starved for resources.

Kinda breaks the concept of no Uncle Bob if we can continually move stuff between EK and CW during the campaign. Embargo vaults to put stuff in and retrieve after the CW ends should be all there is.

EKs will be fine after a few CWs come and go, it doesn't need to be 100% up and running on Day 1.

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2 minutes ago, pang said:

Kinda breaks the concept of no Uncle Bob if we can continually move stuff between EK and CW during the campaign. Embargo vaults to put stuff in and retrieve after the CW ends should be all there is.

EKs will be fine after a few CWs come and go, it doesn't need to be 100% up and running on Day 1.

Well I did have a solution to that problem, import of specific types of items, specifically BP's only.  

All materials would need to come from the CW, but you can "shop" EK's for BP's to bring back.

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1 hour ago, pang said:

Kinda breaks the concept of no Uncle Bob if we can continually move stuff between EK and CW during the campaign. Embargo vaults to put stuff in and retrieve after the CW ends should be all there is.

EKs will be fine after a few CWs come and go, it doesn't need to be 100% up and running on Day 1.

Well, it might not be unlimited. You can only import x value of goods per day or week, and have to give up a certain amount of goods in exchange, either to be taxed into nothingness, or sent to your EK. It'll also almost certainly be part of campaign rules, so at the highest tier, we can see very limited importing to give room for newer players to run around without worrying about older players clubbing seals, and at the lowest tiers, we could see a subset of players not wanting to play with any imports at all.

 

1 hour ago, Frykka said:

I do not think that your "personal" bank space, your personal import/export bank, and the GUILD export vault will be the same thing...   I imagine that in a campaign your personal bank will go poof at the conclusion, you "may" get personal export space but probably not.  Since export is based on final position on a leaderboard, I imagine that you pretty much toss everything you want to attempt to save into the guild coffers and the guild leadership fills the export bank with the entire guilds most valuable stuffs...  then the guild gets a percentage of that coming through to your guild EK and your earnings from participation in that campaign are doled out by rank within the guild.   That puts an onus on guild size and how well your guild functions as a governing body...  

Well, that's not how they phrased it. It seemed to me like the spirit bank was going to be kept mostly the same, with limitations on how and where you can use it. That doesn't seem to be a guild vault, at least not to me. That isn't saying they aren't going to be in the game, but that's just not what I picked up.

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10 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

Well, it might not be unlimited. You can only import x value of goods per day or week, and have to give up a certain amount of goods in exchange, either to be taxed into nothingness, or sent to your EK. It'll also almost certainly be part of campaign rules, so at the highest tier, we can see very limited importing to give room for newer players to run around without worrying about older players clubbing seals, and at the lowest tiers, we could see a subset of players not wanting to play with any imports at all.

If you don't limit imports and exports to one time only players would not have a need to build up assets within the campaign world, they could craft in the safety of the EK only and the campaign would have that much less to fight over and siege.

 

Well, that's not how they phrased it. It seemed to me like the spirit bank was going to be kept mostly the same, with limitations on how and where you can use it. That doesn't seem to be a guild vault, at least not to me. That isn't saying they aren't going to be in the game, but that's just not what I picked up.

Spirit Banks are personal banking spaces and a totally different thing from a Vault which may only allow deposits and no withdrawal until the campaign ends and the vault shows up in the Lieges EK where you are a vassal.
 

 


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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I too look forward to the first iteration that would be a full campaign.

Would be nice with a purpose on the server :-D. 

But before we try that, we need to smooth things out on the serverside, so we can have a more fluent combat experience for everyone.

Which i'm sure you're busting your butts to make possible :-) 


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Watched the video. Nice Q&A.  Performance was much improved for me, and I got some crafting and fighting done this weekend.  I compared gray, white, green, and blue basic gear, and even made some archetype main weapons of various types.  With some equipment on hand, I had some pvp battles and had fun win, lose, or draw. I recognize there are many placeholders, but the game is very playable. I am glad to hear a guild system is coming soon, and look forward to learning about campaigns.

I do think the lack of mobs is an impediment to playtest. There are no monsters to beat on to learn your abilities and the lack of resources makes crafting many items extra challenging. 

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