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Anhrez

Crafting Speed ... What is it good for?

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I know what speed is ... and god knows waiting for things to complete is a pain, but long term what is the skill training good for? If we look at the RuneCrafting tree there are 14 days and 22 hours worth of training dedicated to RuneCrafting speed. But if the long term is Factories for offline effort again what do we gain for training these days? 

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Will this speed translate to our Thralls? 

I can imagine a lot of 'on the fly' crafting especially for RuneCrafting, in fact probable more than most of the other professions but if you open up all of the Crafting skill trees and look for the Red logo you will see speed training paths at about 14 days 22 hours for all of them. Will speed ever trump the need for higher % of success or quality? will it just be a back log training path?  We have a 'Time to Craft' skill to train in Thralls so does not feel like this would be portable to long term usage. 

 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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2 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Absolutely nothing, huh!  hah!  good golly!

solid .....

hehe damn I'm old

 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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Just because you have thralls and factories won't exclude you from having to craft.

Devs have repeatedly stated (to include April's Q&A) that they expect people to tinker with BP/factory stuff to get the premier "Amazing's".

What does that entail though?  Again, based on current crafting ...

First, you need the ability to use factories & thralls.  You also need whatever specialization (unless you are just going to mass produce basic gear, I suppose?), and that specialization line may not fall on either of the sub-trees for factories..

So now you have factories, and a specialization...but do you have recipes? Okay, got recipes trained, but was your specialization down an experimentation or experimentation tree path?  Because currently I have all the experiment pts and experimentation basics trained, and even with that, let me tell you, experimenting on specializations that aren't mine (WW) are PITA, and this is what you would be doing, and I get the added benefit of pots...

So even before you get to the point you start to make any real BP/factory stuff, you are probably making hundreds, if not thousands (especially if you are a dedicated crafter) of combines....and I personally hate waiting for the combines, regardless if it's 5 seconds or 1m5sec.

But let's look at BP's a second too.  Even the 'golden child' of crafting (blacksmith) should likely not be so foolish as to pop out one blueprint of a bar and trying to start knocking out weapons/armor.  Blueprints, I hypothesis using the current system, will require you to use identical serial numbers (like stacking currently does for components), which means you should use a different blueprinted bar for every sub-piece.  Why?  Unless something has changed, BP's will have limited uses.  Even fully trained, is every first combine  likely that 'Amazing' success?  Even if so, using 100 as the cap on a blueprint, how many swords, or pieces of armor are you getting out of said bar?  Would it not make more sense to do each one on it's own BP?   Even being generous and saying you arbitrarily set a limit of 10 tries, how many combines is that to make a single finished product?  Again, assuming perfection w/ 100 per BP and 10% to experiment 'loss' (because you also have to count the sub-combines of components which if isn't "amazing" means you need to use more material, etc etc etc), that's 90 of one 'whatever', which isn't going to last forever.

Because I'm much more familiar with books, to give a quick breakdown:

Clasp = 1metal bar = 2 BP (1 bar, 1 clasp)

Binding = 1 Stitched leather & 2x Plank = 4 BP (1 leather, 2 plank, 1 bind)

Bound Chapters = 1 Stitched (x4), 1 metal bar (x4) + stone = 13 BP (4 x stitched, 4 x metal bar, 4 chapters, 1 bound chapter)

+1BP for final book combine.

Assuming the chapters final combine and book is perfect first try and all other materials use no more than 10 base materials to combine (just because it's easier, not because it's likely)[and in this example that you could do all the combines/BP's yourself]= 10 (clasp) + 10 (binding) + 40 (chapters) + 2 (bound chapters & book) = 62 combines, and honestly, because of sub-component combines, I feel I am actually being rather generous.

While it may be seen as 'filler' and a necessary evil by some, if you are doing copious amounts of combines, I would think speed would be a huge boon to crafters.

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this makes sense ...

but can the 'need' for speed ever trump the ability to avoid an assembly fail or create a better outcome if like you said factories and Blue prints are the end game? 

 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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8 minutes ago, anhrezcf said:

this makes sense ...

but can the 'need' for speed ever trump the ability to avoid an assembly fail or create a better outcome if like you said factories and Blue prints are the end game? 

 

Only as a prerequisite for gaining the benefits of the final node, but this is just my opinion!

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that is the clincher ... how much is that final skill worth ... is it worth the 14 + days of training the speed?


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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I would say 'yes'. You get 2 experiment points from the final node in your specialization tree (plus other bonuses)

Min/max will dictate that the 'best' crafters will have access to all experiment points/success/etc in order to craft the finest gear (purple/orange quality).

But 2 experimentation points alone will make it worthwhile IMO.

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3 hours ago, anhrezcf said:

Will this speed translate to our Thralls?

I doubt it, since factory object speed is already a separate statistic in the mass production tree.

Crafting speed could become very useful in the future as they expand on the crafting system.  Eventually, I think we'll start to see additive slots on many different items that accept components/resources that simply aren't able to be mass produced, or are too rare to make it feasible.  

I'm thinking along the lines of the very recent addition of a "hunger shard" slot to the final combine on weapons.  If hunger shards used unique serial numbers (and had *actual* stats), then you would never be able to make a functional blueprint out of the final sword combine.  If they added the same additive slot to hilts, blades, pommels, etc., then to make the best sword (each component containing a shard), you would have to make the entire thing from scratch.  You'd still have your run-of-the-mill swords being created by thralls from your blueprints, but the one-of-a-kind items will need to be handcrafted in order to get the most from these theoretical additives.  Crafting speed could become very useful in this situation.

We saw something very similar in Star Wars Galaxies (farming Krayts for rare enhancements), so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it makes its way to Crowfall in some form.

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On 4/7/2017 at 2:59 AM, anhrezcf said:

this makes sense ...

but can the 'need' for speed ever trump the ability to avoid an assembly fail or create a better outcome if like you said factories and Blue prints are the end game? 

 

In a world where you can be attacked at any time it could be relevant.  I am not sure if or how interruptions of the crafting process from damage will come into play.  I can see it having some importance but I don't see it superseding success % or pips.  It is a good question though.

Edited by Mr. Kurtz
Typo

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I agree with Mivius in terms of testing and the longer game, but whether those those the third and fourth skills you plan to train in Runemaking tree (after launch wipe) depends on your goals as a player, your guild role, and crafting network.  

For instance, if you're at the point in game where runemaking crafting speed is a choice, it's possible there is already someone in your guild/alliance/campaign trained in mass production or with thralls who can make basic components.  Is it worth their time to help you?  Which recipes did you receive as a Runemaking Novice?  What's your opportunity cost of learning additional recipes or experimentation points over speed?  At this point in testing, I think we would all rank them 1) Exp Pts, 2) Speed -- Recipes are N/A since they're given for testing.  But after launch, I would rank Recipes first --until I learn some of value.  Likewise with Exp Points--if there are few Blue/Purple resources then having lots of exp points has less value.

[Sidenote:  Who wants to be the first "industrialist" and lease batch factory runtime?!] 

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Since high end discipline thralls will be rare and the major disciplines being heavy recipes...   I imagine that even with a workbench and high quality thrall assist it could take days to complete a single disc even inside the buff radius of the station and I also expect that like vessels these top of the line disciplines will not work in factory benches.  i.e. there are high end items you will craft one at a time and these will have really long make times.


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14 hours ago, Frykka said:

Since high end discipline thralls will be rare and the major disciplines being heavy recipes...   I imagine that even with a workbench and high quality thrall assist it could take days to complete a single disc even inside the buff radius of the station and I also expect that like vessels these top of the line disciplines will not work in factory benches.  i.e. there are high end items you will craft one at a time and these will have really long make times.

In the video with Markee dragon, they said "days to make a sword" or something along those lines.

Bottom line, I am pretty sure they are going to make sure those stats matter, one way or another.

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On 12.4.2017 at 5:09 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

In the video with Markee dragon, they said "days to make a sword" or something along those lines.

Bottom line, I am pretty sure they are going to make sure those stats matter, one way or another.

i also remember the devs saying that craftng currently is highly speed up and that it will take a lot longer to craft in the final game.

My gues is that in the future an entire group can craft a singel item together to decrease the crafting time. Otherwise the Leadership crafting tree would make no sense.


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On 4/16/2017 at 7:53 AM, Xenotor said:

i also remember the devs saying that craftng currently is highly speed up and that it will take a lot longer to craft in the final game.

My gues is that in the future an entire group can craft a singel item together to decrease the crafting time. Otherwise the Leadership crafting tree would make no sense.

Considering days to craft something like a siege weapon could prove to be the determining factor in the victory of a campaign. However, that same could be said by having a better siege weapon all around. It makes me think about having quantity vs quality, which adds more strategy to the game.

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