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ladelay

COMPETITIVE MODE, LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN

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I apologize first of all if this is a repeat topic.

If you like the idea of competitive modes (skirmishes, battlegrounds, etc.) reply to this topic! LETS KEEP THIS ALIVE!

My recommendation for Crowfall is to initiate a true competetive mode. 

What is/are competetive mode(s)?

Competetive modes would be game types that are small scale game modes in which small groups of individuals work together against similar sized small groups to accomplish a common objective. This differs from Crowfalls normal game modes in that each mode is more specialized and is much shorter. Examples of this are:

1) Deathmatch

2) Point control

4) King of the hill

Other common names of these game modes would be: Skirmishes, Battlegrounds, 5v5 modes, etc

Why is competetive mode important?

Competetive is important because many players like to play (PvP) games to be the best they can be. Not all PVP games cater to the same type of PvPer. Players use competetive modes as a way to directly compare their skills with others on an equal playing field. 

Who benefits from competetive modes?

1) NEW PLAYERS

As it stands right now with the current crowfall skill system and gear system, this system HEAVILY favors those who have been with the game the longest. I may have missed something with the ACE Q and As, but it sounds like the devs have not found a good answer to fix the problem of new players coming into the game far down the line. These new players are at a MASSIVE disadvantage and no matter what they do, they cannot overcome this disadvantage until months/later because of how the skill system works.

2) E SPORT and COMPETETIVE ORIENTED COMMUNITIES

It is pretty much a given that when a new game with hype comes out that it draws a specific crowd of consumers who want to test the E Sports potential of a game. I understand Crowfall does not have intentions at the moment to have E Sport oriented content; however, If Crowfall were to have a competetive system in place, many of these players would be more inclined to stay with the game. If these players aren't allowed to directly compare their skills to other players on an equal playing field they will leave to find another game that will allow them to!

3) CRAFTERS/GATHERERS AND OTHER NON COMBAT ROLES

Crowfall is designed to have the players specialize in certain roles. If a player wants to be a crafter, for example, he has to devote a majority of time, skills and resources to fulfill that role. But what if that player wants to switch to a combat role? After all, this is a PvP game. The player in a non combat specialized role will always be at a disadvantage compared to the others who are in a more specialized role due to the skill tree system. In theory, after enough time that player should be able to compete equally with others in his new role, but why should it take months to reroll to be able to compete with others in a new role? A competetive system would allow those who want to fulfill the itch of competing against others equally while still being able to commit to their role in the main campaigns.

4) CASUAL PLAYERS/SOLO PLAYERS/ THOSE WHO WANT TO PLAY FOR SHORT INCREMENTS OF TIME

The Crowfalls campaign worlds appear to be vast and intimidating for players who want to play alone. In order to accomplish anything in these campaign worlds, players have to take the time to organize groups or traverse large portions of the map to do anything. For a player who wants to play alone or only for about 20 minutes at a time, this is not helpful. A competetive mode will allow QUICK PLAY game modes that a player can instantly dop into and IMMEDIATELY have fun.   

How would you implement a Competetive mode?

1) MAKE IT EQUAL AND FREE OF EXTERNAL STATS OR SKILLS. 

Players joining these game modes should be on equal playing fields as everyone else. This ensures that only those with the best teamwork or individual skill come out on top. Cosmetics items are ok.

You have to make it so everyone has an equal chance of winning!

2) MAKE IT SHORT

These game modes should only last about 10 to 20 minutes in length.

3) MAKE IT EASY TO ACCESS

These game modes should be accessable from either the main menu or in the eternal kingdoms. Players should be able to easily jump in and out as they please. Solo players should also be able to solo que so casual players are encouraged to play (other game modes specifically for teams can be created as well).

4) MAKE IT SMALL

Team sizes should be same as opposing team. Good team size should be 5-15 players in size). 

5) REWARD YOU PLAYERS

Players who devote much of their time to a competetive mode should be able to recieve unique rewards for their time and skill. Recommendations include: Titles, items for eternal kingdoms, name portraits, etc.

Competetive players like FLASHY rewars that they can show off to other players. This lets other players know that this player is good at the game and is to be feared.

Competetive players who are not properly rewarded will feel left out and will be more likely to leave the game. 

GIVING REWARDS THAT ONLY BENEFIT PLAYERS IN THE MAIN CAMPAIGN, SUCH AS RARE MATERIALS, IS NEVER A GOOD REWARD.

6) DONT BE AFRAID TO BALANCE OUTAIDE OF THE REGULAR CAMPAIGNS

Many games who balance PvE content or various PvP content always run into the issue of balance. If someone balances around one game mode then it affects another game mode.

My solution is simple. Balance your competetive mode(s) SEPERATE FROM YOUR CAMPAIGNS!!!!!! It is ok to seperately make changes! Implementing a competetive mode but being afraid to balance it because of the campaign mode balance is a guarenteed way to lose your competetive community (cough Guild Wars 2). Just leave some balance notes at the front of the competetive mode access menu in game. That way people know immediately what will differ from the main game.

In conclussion.

I love competetive PVP and I hope Crowfall will have something to satisfy that itch. I hope the devs take the time to at least consider the possibility of Competetive modes.

-Pintresting

 

 

 

 

Edited by ladelay

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Great write up.  Not sure how I feel about it as I didn't sign up for a MOBA such as Smite.  The biggest issue I have is that if something like this is implemented you may end up with two sets of players.  Core and Competitive much like other MMO's that have battlegrounds which is not necessarily a problem with Balance as it with divide .  I will say thank you for the in-depth and well thought out write up.  Your ideas do have merit but again I personally would lean away from it.  Hopefully they can come up with something that provides those gratifying rewards like you suggested (see next post).

There might be the possibility that they will include something similar to your mini game idea as part of fulfilling some sort of objective requirements (see below post).  

Edited by Mr. Kurtz
additional info

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I believe Tournament Systems was a stretch goal that was met in the KS. Hoping to see that sates the thirst for us Competitive guilds

http://imgur.com/a/DO8o4

Edit: If you're looking to give suggestions, this would be best implemented as a Website UI feature instead of in game. This allows for the particular events to take place in a controlled environment hopefully hosted by a reputable group's EK backed by ACE. That way it would not take away from the current CW's or add too much additional cost as a feature.

Edited by Uyathefox

Sugoi ! - Head of Disciplinary Committee


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Having a competitive mode would be an absolute disaster for a game like this. Especially if it was done via small scale and small timeline battlegrounds. The skills in Crowfall are going to be balanced around usefulness throughout an entire campaign. Not a 25 minute battleground. The entire premise of the game's crafting system, building relationships with other players, alliances, and basically everything would be undermined by a "competitive system".

The only sort of competitive system I could see is having the guilds that win campaigns face off against other guilds that win campaigns in a NCAA style bracket system. Even that will have some complications but wouldn't undermine the game. 

Edited by Zybak

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This game is going to have enough open world pvp you don't need battlegrounds or arena. The whole let's fight in a box idea gets very repetitive and boring. Open world PvP is the only way go. Trust me. The only problem with open world is if the game has low poo it will be hard to find fights but I don't think that will be an issue

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14 hours ago, ladelay said:

6) DONT BE AFRAID TO BALANCE OUTAIDE OF THE REGULAR CAMPAIGNS

Many games who balance PvE content or various PvP content always run into the issue of balance. If someone balances around one game mode then it affects another game mode.

My solution is simple. Balance your competetive mode(s) SEPERATE FROM YOUR CAMPAIGNS!!!!!! It is ok to seperately make changes! Implementing a competetive mode but being afraid to balance it because of the campaign mode balance is a guarenteed way to lose your competetive community (cough Guild Wars 2).

This statement concerns me because there is no pve vs pvp balance here, so you would advocate long term pvp balance versus short term pvp balance?

14 hours ago, ladelay said:

3) CRAFTERS/GATHERERS AND OTHER NON COMBAT ROLES

Crowfall is designed to have the players specialize in certain roles. If a player wants to be a crafter, for example, he has to devote a majority of time, skills and resources to fulfill that role. But what if that player wants to switch to a combat role? After all, this is a PvP game. The player in a non combat specialized role will always be at a disadvantage compared to the others who are in a more specialized role due to the skill tree system. In theory, after enough time that player should be able to compete equally with others in his new role, but why should it take months to reroll to be able to compete with others in a new role? A competetive system would allow those who want to fulfill the itch of competing against others equally while still being able to commit to their role in the main campaigns.

 

All AT's are combat roles, if you choose to craft or gather, it is simply a choice to train that way. I am also an advocate for migrating the combat tree(s) to the AT's, but the above idea seems like an unnecessary step, you can ALWAYS choose to train a different way. 

 

14 hours ago, ladelay said:

2) E SPORT and COMPETETIVE ORIENTED COMMUNITIES

 If these players aren't allowed to directly compare their skills to other players on an equal playing field they will leave to find another game that will allow them to!

 

 

Here I simply ask, why would we want people who need a supplementary and artificial ego & e-peen boosts, or set of them and/or rewards, beyond what is already (or more accurately should/will be) present?  There are already plenty of MOBA's and Arena-style games, and MMO's that cater to their stylings.  

While I am not strictly against the idea of competitive/tournament style games being introduced, the game mechanics and the worlds already promised to us are "assumed" not to be completed by "soft launch", and detracting from the development time for the 'base' ideas concerns me deeply.  Also of concern, in other MMO's (WoW was a good example for this one, as much as I loathe using it) the introduction of battlegrounds/arenas severely hampered open-world pvp engagements, because people would just queue up for their fighting 'fix' (this type of engagement has its place, but makes for a much less dynamic and interesting pvp environment, IMO).

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21 hours ago, ladelay said:

cough Guild Wars 2

So basically copy GW2's sPVP?

While I would likely enjoy such a mode, really has no place in the current design beyond specifically targeting folks that enjoy such things. Much the same as making PVE, questing, insert whatever that they've chosen to do without.

Would be a lot of time/effort/money to pull off and no promise it would be worth the hassle.

I assume we'd have access to a set of high quality gear, vessels, all Disciplines, maxed training lines, etc which could be fun to try out things.

Being able to hop into GW2 sPVP within a few min to try different classes was a strong point for GW2 imo. Testing out classes to see which to actually level for WvW saved me some time.

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This might be useful purely as a testing ground, and maybe as something that exists in the realms. Arenas that pop up and allow a limited number of folks to enter them, randomly assigning them to teams if teams aren't already forms. The first groups to enter these arenas when their timers go off are the ones to be in the competition. Or could be held tournament style with groups entering into rooms and being sent out against one another in a bracket style set up, teleported back to the rooms when the combats inside end, having folks in the stands cheering and watching as a semi-openworld activity. Give a reward for being the winner of the competition, then having to fight off the folks who'll try to take your reward, or perhaps the reward is instant-escrow, winners get to send some of their resources out before the campaign ends if you don't want them to be ganged up on upon leaving?

 

Basically, I don't think the majority of folks here -want- a closed off competitive tier pvp type set up like WoW arenas or battlegrounds, because we all know what that eventually does to open world pvp.

 

But taking elements of those things, and making them into a feature of the worlds proper, could be a really interesting way to handle it. Factions sending out teams of champions to claim the big deal stuff, while minor objectives are skirmished over and used by the factions' player bases to REALLY figure out who their best and brightest are, who they need to send to the arenas when the tournaments begin, to determine who wins or loses the campaign.

 

tl;dr: Take the elements of competitive PvP, and turn them into another type of campaign module (like bloodstone trees and such), integrated directly into the open world.

Edited by shadowclasper

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Pretty much agree with all the posters here, I think this would be a bad Idea for all the reasons already posted. I do appreciate the time you took to make a very detailed post so I'm not gonna flame you, but honestly this game is trying to set itself apart from most of the ideas you mentioned. The only implementation I would like is In EKs where a guild could build an arena and have 1v1 and 5v5 games,

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I don't think it is how the game should look like. Part of testing was kind of this. But it can be implemented as 'ruleset', where people can only fight equal battles as competition and country winning more will be a victor of campaign. I see it possible. Then, it may be a part of EK or just an event.


Mercenary guild is recruiting. Send me a message if you are interested.

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No thanks. There are many many many games designed specifically around the idea of "fair" even teams gametypes with short match times.

There's really no point in spending development resources on trying to turn crowfall in to something is isn't designed to be. If I want to play king of the hill or deathmatch I can go play that in a game where the core systems are designed around that type of experience. I'll have a much better time doing it. Crowfall's core systems are designed around open world PvP. That's a system that there aren't any really solid entries in the market right now.

I don't want to log in to an open world PvP game to play 5v5 deathmatch. I can go play quake, and I'll have a better time.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Some bounty hunter mechanic and maybe really rewards from pvp liek ranks and great item gear .. i am not allot in make my own gear and i wont really wana hold a hand of some  some guild lider to get me in some high end guild jsut for a damn crafter that make good gear :/ ..

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I don't think the OP's idea is contrary to the spirit of the game really, nor would it cause a great divide. On the contrary, more than most other games, the design here lends itself to what the OP is asking for.  In fact, really what the OP suggested isn't that far from what the Campaign system is going to be, right?  And it could be handled through the campaign system.

Just have multiple small campaigns with like 8v8/16v16/32v32 limits, of short duration, constantly cycling?  If the way campaigns are created allows for it.

 

Edited by Hasil

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