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Horrible!!


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4 hours ago, armegeddon said:

Each Archetype will be given three "Promotion classes". . 

I don't really think that's true. While there will be so called promotion classes as you say, as I understand it these are just vessels. That's why I don't get any benefit from the substantial training I have into promotion classes: I am not wearing the right outfit (vessel).

Anyone wearing one promotion vessel will be able to switch that in a matter of seconds if they have the other promotion vessel as I understand it.

To me this is not a promotion class. It is a powered suit of armor. Nor is this character building as I have used the term for decades. It is gear collection and management.

Edit: I'd love to be wrong on this one btw.

Edited by coolwaters
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Hm its been so long:

I also forgot about power modifications via Enchantment crafting

And we have not heard anything about advantages and disadvantages for a long time...

Promotions been fairly quiet as well now that the spot light is shining on Disciplines more too.

*cough* @jtoddcoleman  ? :)

Edited by Tinnis
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On 4/15/2017 at 11:45 AM, Frykka said:

Shadowbane had the same restrictions on weapons allowed your base class with starting runes and disciplines unlocking the other weapon types.

This isn't true. Shadowbane had classes that were viable with a great deal of different types of weapons that didn't require discs or "proficient with" runes to equip.

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Hey man let me say one thing, is not that all classes are gender locked (some are but they have a good explanation to be) is just that we are in the pre alpha stage and so the devs only made the minimum possible to let "we" players use and test with a bit of fun. 

About customization. I love, i dont like, i LOVE customization, i spend more or less two hours doing my character if the game give many options, but, in the alpha such customization is not needed so is not implemented and to be honest, i dont think this game will give us 999 sliders to toy with when the game goes out (i pray to the All Father that i am wrong about this) but if you take some time study the skills, you may understand how can your choices make a unique styled character and i do believe that there will be specializations that will let us use more weapons (i want a spear, if art craft is reading this, let the knight have a spear, knuckles could be good too! For the myrmidon :D)

What i am trying to say is that if you want to know for sure is will like or not this game, please, come back in the beta or in the launching day. Like i said in another topic, Alpha is not for us to have fun, is to help the devs find problems and give sugestions. 

"An ordinary archer practices until he gets it right. A Ranger practices until he never gets it wrong." -The Lost Stories  


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✣Junte-se a nós✣

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I just spit up in my mouth reading OPs post. Well done sir. I had to look back and make sure this wasn't posted on 4/1/17 to make sure. 

I think we should all take a moment and reflect that the incident count of this occurring is dramatically going to increase going forward.

 

To think some people equate how a character looks versus getting to choose how a character plays as customization is utterly beyond my comprehension. 

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On 4/15/2017 at 10:57 AM, presharrison said:

Just tried the game yesterday and the level of disappointment was huge.  So you cut back so that different classes can't be different races, its like predetermined...horrible!!! What were you thinking!!!!  also you can't select male or female.... horrible!!!  Cartoony graphics= terrible!!!  Looks like if you pick a specific class you get a specific type of weapon, so only certain classes can use and axe and other can only use a sword..... WOW way to customize guys!!!  So F'ing Horrible!!!

I can't believe I backed this game!  When I saw its developers were the ones that made Shadowbane, I was like...damn!  this game is going to be huge....unfortunately, it seems to be huge..huge fail.

So I posted this in the suggestion box so you see the major points where you fail.

I know it is alpha but unless you a fixing those major points, this game is looking like a candyland WOW but WOW has like 10X the customization that this game lacks...bad, oh and WOW has crap for customization. 

Just such a big disappointment...

 

 

I agree with some of your points that you are making, It is pre-alpha and some of the stuff they want to put into the game is just not up and running. For all the human characters they do play to allow gender. The only thing that I do not like and can safely say I will never like no matter how well it is implemented in the game is the vessel system. Most people wanna feel attach to their character and the vessel system only benefits people who play lots of alts. I don't see them scratching any other itch other than you won't have to retrain skills of particular classes, but even that could have been implemented without the vessel system. The other reason I don't particularly like the vessel system is that armor in this game requires a lot of time to make and this is just pre-alpha I imagine when the game goes live it will be even hard for people gather the stuff to make armor and now you own vessel is an equitable item.

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5 hours ago, TJB0ND said:

I agree with some of your points that you are making, It is pre-alpha and some of the stuff they want to put into the game is just not up and running. For all the human characters they do play to allow gender. The only thing that I do not like and can safely say I will never like no matter how well it is implemented in the game is the vessel system. Most people wanna feel attach to their character and the vessel system only benefits people who play lots of alts. I don't see them scratching any other itch other than you won't have to retrain skills of particular classes, but even that could have been implemented without the vessel system. The other reason I don't particularly like the vessel system is that armor in this game requires a lot of time to make and this is just pre-alpha I imagine when the game goes live it will be even hard for people gather the stuff to make armor and now you own vessel is an equitable item.

The base common quality vessel is always available at a temple in every EK and in every campaign.  You have to craft better quality vessels but the base is always there for free.  These better quality vessels get their extra stats from a philosophers stone and from special gravedigger body part additives.  It gives us a whole line of things to harvest and fight over, to steal and craft with...   just simply more crafted stuff for the economy.  

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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7 hours ago, scree said:

I just spit up in my mouth reading OPs post. Well done sir. I had to look back and make sure this wasn't posted on 4/1/17 to make sure. 

I think we should all take a moment and reflect that the incident count of this occurring is dramatically going to increase going forward.

 

To think some people equate how a character looks versus getting to choose how a character plays as customization is utterly beyond my comprehension. 

This comment made me think of this, from Mark Rosewater, lead designer of Magic the Gathering for 20 years.

Quote

Lesson #18: Restrictions breed creativity

Of all my lessons, this is the one I'm most associated with. In fact, if you're a longtime reader, you've heard me say it many times in this very column. This lesson is tied into a myth about creativity. Many people believe that the more options available, the more creative a person can be. This is a myth because it contradicts what we know about how the brain works. The brain is an amazing organ. It's very smart. When asked to solve a problem, most brains check their data banks and ask "Have I solved this before?" If the answer is yes, the brain solves the problem the exact same way it solved it last time.

Most of the time, this is efficient. It lets you avoid relearning tasks each time you do them, but it causes a problem with creative thought. You see, if you use the same neural pathways, you get to the same answers, and with creativity, that's not your goal. So here's the trick I've learned. If you want your brain to get to new places, start from somewhere you've never started before. That's why I make sure to begin each expansion from a new vantage point. This forces me to think in different ways and create new problems to solve, which results in new ideas and new solutions. What this means is that restrictions aren't an obstacle but rather a valuable tool. You can make use of restrictions to help you be more creative.

It's not how "open" a game is to customization, it's how fun the play is, and how much it challenges the player that is important.  If you're focused on the cosmetics and limitations, you're missing a very big part of the picture. 

It also says to me that you're a bit afraid to leave your comfort zone.  "I wan't to be a assassin that uses the Myrmidon axe", is more likely to come from you being used to using the axe and matching power sets, than wanting some "unique" character.  That kind of flexibility would also lead to many people finding the "best" DPS weapon if it was possible, and simply using that everywhere.

Too much "customization", and suddenly everyone ends up the same anyway, simply because it's a game with an end goal.

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Yes restrictions breed creativity, and that is also why convenience oriented gamers are generally not very skilled.  They look to solve problems with convenient external fixes instead of improving as players. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Your character is the crow soul. The various meat suits you inhabit for a while is just another form of gear. Put on one meat suit and boom you are a druid, go hug a tree. Get the spleen of some legendary druid from that world and wow you can do druish things better. If you have VIP then you can have three archetypes training at a time. But if you want to try another class you can. If you like the base play better than one of your three chosen classes you can always change.

The Archetype training is simulating leveling from the other MMO's 1-(50,60,80 100,110,whatever) The general training is overall skills your crow learns on the adventures through the dying lands. I have not looked into the vessel system as much but I believe there will be craftable vessels that will have starting skill points as well. Like a meat suit that is geared towards mining and has mining skills already. Maybe this will be how they get around the horrible long term choices that the general trees have vrs playability.

Time will tell.

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Hopefully the OP will stick around for the testing once these new systems are integrated properly. He definitely choose a bad weekend to jump back in. Yes, his post was way over the top, but I'd imagine it was just a product of coming back and seeing the huge number of issues we had last week. Had to look like a massive step back if one doesn't understand how much new content just got dropped.

Here's hoping you can eat the words in your extremely critical post. Here's hoping I can too on character building.

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3 hours ago, coolwaters said:

Hopefully the OP will stick around for the testing once these new systems are integrated properly. He definitely choose a bad weekend to jump back in. Yes, his post was way over the top, but I'd imagine it was just a product of coming back and seeing the huge number of issues we had last week. Had to look like a massive step back if one doesn't understand how much new content just got dropped.

Here's hoping you can eat the words in your extremely critical post. Here's hoping I can too on character building.

I wouldn't count on a positive response from OP.

Back in June he was complaining about test availability windows, and projecting a negative response from "12 year olds" for him griping about it, and not a single positive post in the 7 he has made to date.

Personally, if I want to "Character build", I grab a pen and paper or log into roll20.net.

Video games are in my opinion just poorly made socks for role play. Square peg, round hole.  

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

I wouldn't count on a positive response from OP.

Back in June he was complaining about test availability windows, and projecting a negative response from "12 year olds" for him griping about it, and not a single positive post in the 7 he has made to date.

Personally, if I want to "Character build", I grab a pen and paper or log into roll20.com.

Video games are in my opinion just poorly made socks for role play. Square peg, round hole.  

Unfortunate he feels that way. :/

Disagree re character building. Absence of robust character building in this game is almost enough to send me packing.

But not quite. And I'm still holding out hope.

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Oh good, another thread that should be titled "I don't know the difference between pre-alpha and alpha and I'm too angry to google it or read the forums." My favorite thing to see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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35 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

Unfortunate he feels that way. :/

Disagree re character building. Absence of robust character building in this game is almost enough to send me packing.

But not quite. And I'm still holding out hope.

To each their own. I've never been attached to a single in game "character" in my life. I've been attached to and enjoyed the experiences driving around said digital beings have given me, as an extension of myself.  

But the name and pixels, never found a game that was custom enough to personalize the bits.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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10 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

To each their own. I've never been attached to a single in game "character" in my life. I've been attached to and enjoyed the experiences driving around said digital beings have given me, as an extension of myself.  

But the name and pixels, never found a game that was custom enough to personalize the bits.

I have felt character attachment, particularly in SB where you could make some fairly unique builds even years later.

I think you may misunderstand what I mean by character building though. It's not the character that matters do much as the building. The creative process of trying something new and finding whatever degree of success. The replayability of the character building in SB kept me hooked for years. In fact, I feel like I can confidently deduce that you never got to play Shadowbane based on your post above alone.

Am I right? To me, this game without solid character building would just be a shooter with crafting and good sieging. We'd be playing Halo with magic, essentially. That's my honest .02.

Edited by coolwaters
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47 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

Am I right? To me, this game without solid character building would just be a shooter with crafting and good sieging. We'd be playing Halo with magic, essentially. That's my honest .02.

I have a lot of the same concerns.  While I will see how things shake out, recent changes deeply concern me about the fact that all customization seems to be coming via equipment.  Outside of unlocks, they have truly gutted customization in the skill trees for many (all?) AT's.  Everything else is gear-gated; this is very troubling.

For many years I've been saying I'd play an MMO with 8-bit graphics if they got the mechanics perfect.  I know perfect mechanics are literally unattainable, but I think the point is made.

I am not sure if there is hope for the OP, since he's been 'around' since kickstarter, but it would be great if people at least 'peeked' at the testing forums at least before jumping into the 'game' and then screaming the sky is falling.  There are plenty of legitimate concerns, but there is a new post or three every week that make me (us?) wonder if, as someone else mentioned, it is an attempt at satire...and sadly, it's usually not...

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11 hours ago, coolwaters said:

Unfortunate he feels that way. :/

Disagree re character building. Absence of robust character building in this game is almost enough to send me packing.

But not quite. And I'm still holding out hope.

So the Discipline system they showed us a few weeks back didn't do anything for you? Seems it'll be even deeper and more dynamic then we all thought it would be and offers some of what you talk about in your next post.

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12 minutes ago, pang said:

So the Discipline system they showed us a few weeks back didn't do anything for you? Seems it'll be even deeper and more dynamic then we all thought it would be and offers some of what you talk about in your next post.

While the discipline system is cool and all; that too is behind a gear / crafter wall. I think that's part of his issue. All this gear based progression means you'll either have to recruit more people (guild bloat, which is always pretty terrible), or try and become sufficient by hoarding accounts (so you don't have to rely on johnson to log on and make you the discipline rune you so desperately need). Take all the gear away and you're just the same as the confessor next to you. Discipline runes and vessels are also not permanent, in fact, there is little to no permanent character based progression in the game that can differentiate you from someone else besides maybe "Boons/Banes" which seem to be a minor thing.

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