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TJB0ND

Vessels

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So how does everyone feel about the Vessel system? It is honestly the only aspect of this game I do not like. I liked most of the responses I got from the last question I posted some were pretty entertaining. 

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I used to play EVE and it feels very similar to how players would 'wear' their ships. Personally I really like this take on character/class in RPGs. It lets people mix it up that want a change without needing a bunch of alts, but also has the potential to reward people enough that stick with their class through the skill system. In EVE I've been able to pilot ships that were considered the best in the game, but I would do poorly in them due to how I'd set my skills up. As long as skills have a big factor as to how a vessel pilots, I'm happy there's the option to switch around like this.

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I dont see a problem with it. If i want playing just one AT , I m going to do it without any disadvantage.

If i change my mind at any time of the game, i still have 2 AT already skilled in the same amount of time with VIP. If i even dont like this way i wont get VIP, play normally b2p or play on different account instead.

This feature could be another step in a way sandbox games should/could be.

The game will offers you a lot , which you wont have to take - suit yourself!

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I am all on board with vessels...   in many cases they will be permanent for a player.   I think it may only be the Dregs campaigns now where vessels lose permanence other than basic decay...  (think of it as getting old or too many battle scars to fight)  and then you can still pick up a new and better quality vessel then play it just like your old toon.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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1 hour ago, Frykka said:

I am all on board with vessels...   in many cases they will be permanent for a player.   I think it may only be the Dregs campaigns now where vessels lose permanence other than basic decay...  (think of it as getting old or too many battle scars to fight)  and then you can still pick up a new and better quality vessel then play it just like your old toon.

I love the concept.  

Eternal restless spirits (crows/characters), moving from body to body, world to world, always seeking....something, but never quite getting it.  

I'm not sold on the way all the good ones are frankensteined together. it feels too much like the Bloody Cobbler to me, a round peg for a square hole.

I would prefer if they started at a base and were built up over time through the consumption of essence (dust), until they finally wore out from damage or retired to eternal kingdoms.

But Frankenstein aside, I do like the idea.

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19 minutes ago, Helix said:

I'm not a fan of having so much progression and character customization behind crafting (vessels, disciplines).

Yea, the crafting vessels skill tree annoys me. Square peg, round hole.

Of all the things you should be able to be able to do independent of others, your "own" body should fall into that category.

Disciplines I don't mind so much, I see that as a transference of experience/training from a master sort of thing, but vessel "crafting" just rubs me the wrong way. I would rather you have to take sacrifices (dust) to the temple, and then basically buy the custom vessel you want/need from the Gods.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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30 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Of all the things you should be able to be able to do independent of others, your "own" body should fall into that category.

I'm okay with having interdependence (I mean, most of us are in guilds, so yea), but there is such a thing as TOO much interdependence. I'm fully capable of wiping my own ass in RL, however within the context of crowfall I'd literally need two people to hold each cheek, and a third to wipe the crack.

Right now I have (or will) dedicated harvester accounts for body parts, ore, etc and a dedicated crafter for vessels, disciplines, weapons, etc.

Edited by Helix

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23 minutes ago, Helix said:

I'm okay with having interdependence (I mean, most of us are in guilds, so yea), but there is such a thing as TOO much interdependence. I'm fully capable of wiping my own ass in RL, however within the context of crowfall I'd literally need two people to hold each cheek, and a third to wipe the crack.

Right now I have (or will) dedicated harvester accounts for body parts, ore, etc and a dedicated crafter for vessels, disciplines, weapons, etc.

Well from Day 1 Crowfall has always been advertised as a social game where you need to rely on others (Crafters, Harvesters, Pvpers, etc) to get anywhere in the game.  I'm fine with needing to rely on others (friends, guilds, etc) to get better and shiny new things.


   Official Moderator of the Unofficial Crowfall Discord!  Come join the discussion @ https://discord.me/crowfall

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I like the ideia of having the choice to change Alts by trading vessels (Just to clarify, i am the type of player that stick to one classe, character) but i do feel that the Vessel crafting is a bit too much. Okay we can find a crafter in our guilds to help us have a better vessels but i find the idea from @KrakkenSmacken much better.


"An ordinary archer practices until he gets it right. A Ranger practices until he never gets it wrong." -The Lost Stories  


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✣Junte-se a nós✣

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4 hours ago, vaands said:

I like the ideia of having the choice to change Alts by trading vessels (Just to clarify, i am the type of player that stick to one classe, character) but i do feel that the Vessel crafting is a bit too much. Okay we can find a crafter in our guilds to help us have a better vessels but i find the idea from @KrakkenSmacken much better.

Here's the question I have though..."IF" they are not loot-able...how are they stored and transferred? If I create a "Blue" Knight Vessel and decide to switch to Templar from my Knight, Will the vessel appear in my Templar inventory, or is it automatically bound until it decays fully to the Knight at the Temple? Do I have to, as a Knight, make sure I am carrying my crafted Templar vessel before I switch AT?  Are they in fact loot-able?

There seems to be a lot tied up in vessel/discipline management. How do the transfer? How are they maintained when not in use? A lot of questions to be answered.


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9 minutes ago, armegeddon said:

Here's the question I have though..."IF" they are not loot-able...how are they stored and transferred? If I create a "Blue" Knight Vessel and decide to switch to Templar from my Knight, Will the vessel appear in my Templar inventory, or is it automatically bound until it decays fully to the Knight at the Temple? Do I have to, as a Knight, make sure I am carrying my crafted Templar vessel before I switch AT?  Are they in fact loot-able?

There seems to be a lot tied up in vessel/discipline management. How do the transfer? How are they maintained when not in use? A lot of questions to be answered.

Maybe its just the Vessel you are wearing isn't lootable. If carrying a Vessel you just made or bought in your inventory it is lootable like any other item in your inventory.

Could also be based on the Ruleset. some may allow looting vessel in inventory or even one your wearing and some may not allow any kind of vessel looting regardless of its state.

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14 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

It's not desirable and shifts the game towards the moba end of the spectrum and away from the old school mmorpg end of the spectrum.  Crowfall as a game is locking you into very few permanent choices.

Vessels are not a MOBA-like system. MOBAs do not allow you to switch characters mid-game. Neither is MOBA-like a bad thing, nor is there a spectrum with MOBA on one side and old-school MMOs on the other side. MOBAs have been doing strategic PvP right for two decades. MMOs could stand to leave their comfort zone for a few minutes and look at other genres.

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12 hours ago, Robbolo said:

 Personally I really like this take on character/class in RPGs. It lets people mix it up that want a change without needing a bunch of alts, 

This is really funny to me. 

The conclusion that the vessel system provides a motive NOT to buy alt accounts, if that's really the suggestion here, is incorrect.

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5 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

Vessels are not a MOBA-like system. MOBAs do not allow you to switch characters mid-game. Neither is MOBA-like a bad thing, nor is there a spectrum with MOBA on one side and old-school MMOs on the other side. MOBAs have been doing strategic PvP right for two decades. MMOs could stand to leave their comfort zone for a few minutes and look at other genres.

Vessels are a moba-like system, the moba design intends for you to be able to play around with many different types of characters with relative ease.  Trying to translate a "mid-game" switch is kind of silly because the "game" durations are a bit different.  And yes moba-like is a bad thing if your goal is to bring back what has been forgotten in mmorpgs since WoW came out.  You are trying to create big persistent massive multiplayer worlds where choices feel significant, making successes and failures also feel more significant.  You don't do that by making too much of the game temporary and easily changeable. 

And yes there is a spectrum, perhaps you don't see it (I don't know what your gaming experience is). 

MOBAS also have not been doing strategic PvP for two decades, and really their rise did not occur until more like a decade ago, which oddly enough is the same time the spirit of old mmorpgs got stomped out by world of warcraft. 

I don't think you realize that by catering to convenience and shallow choices with less impact, you aren't leaving the comfort zone, you are right there in that WoW zone.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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11 minutes ago, ringhloth said:

Vessels are not a MOBA-like system. MOBAs do not allow you to switch characters mid-game. Neither is MOBA-like a bad thing, nor is there a spectrum with MOBA on one side and old-school MMOs on the other side. MOBAs have been doing strategic PvP right for two decades. MMOs could stand to leave their comfort zone for a few minutes and look at other genres.

I agree with this pretty deeply, but I've come to believe that the vast majority of people interested in CF at this point fall into the "MMOs were good and pure and we custarded them up, so let's get back to those days" camp. I can't fault them. That's their perogative, and I agree with many points they make. But it does mean we're perhaps overly subject to some archaic viewpoints regarding "good" game design.

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