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6 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I just can't see a follower crow fighting for Gaia or Cybele finding the idea of building Frankenstein's to run around in as in keeping with their pantheons view on life and general spirit. If they are going to have a pantheon with deities like those, then they should make vessel mechanics to match how those Gods are portrayed.

We all know that there is always a difference between what a Goddess believes and what her followers tell others that they interpret as something she believes.  Gaea is supposedly about life and we are told that she has died, is the only evidence of this the story of her followers or the facts in the dying worlds, the hunger and the living spirits and corpses...   Was it Cybele that was corrupted in her fertility and has inflicted the hunger upon the dying worlds, her virginity ravaged and her mind warped?   Her children become thralls and spirits to walk the world feeling her hunger?

Mixing rp into our mechanics discussion is a divine fallacy...   vessels are fine in the lore because Gaea has herself died.

Edited by Frykka

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I have been against it since day one. I want Char slots back...

I'm not a fan of having so much progression and character customization behind crafting (vessels, disciplines).

Vessels are not a MOBA-like system. MOBAs do not allow you to switch characters mid-game. Neither is MOBA-like a bad thing, nor is there a spectrum with MOBA on one side and old-school MMOs on the oth

Not even mentioning the fact that vessels was the solution to the perma-death suggestions surrounding full loot PvP.   Vessel decay is essentially aging as a realism factor, vessel looting is as close to perma death as any killer could ask for, the ultimate prize.   These rulesets are still under consideration for the Dregs campaigns.  One more thing to risk and reward though...  
 

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28 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Vessels aren't even remotely close to permadeath at all. 

At least 2/3 of your Archetype overall combat power comes from the vessel, it's imbedded disciplines, and the gear it is wearing.   Losing your skin ship is perma-loss of your skin ship whether is decays over time or is taken.  In all CWs your vessel will decay and eventually be gone.  In the Dregs it could happen sooner, however most players will only bring out their finest setup for pivotal battles like siege defense.   Remember that you will not have an at will spirit bank and thus nobody will be carrying an extra vessel.  Vessel storage may be a vault you actually fill and take from in a temple...   your home temple at an EK, your faction temple, or even a constructed and placed temple inside your fortifications.

Edited by Frykka

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I think the serious discussion still lies ahead for vessel looting.

I support a down-state system with a death timer that sets up the current temple recall (2 minute) and full vessel decay timer (the 2 hour one).  Only inventory is lootable from a downed state player and no further damage is taken.   Would be cool if the downed state vessel had some agony throes animations; a flailing arm, a short crawl, a spasm of pain.

I would like to see a set of paired major disciplines; one for exorcist that pre-releases the crow in a downed state and allows a chance to loot the full corpse or just some of its quality parts and equipment, and one for resurrection that requires a full 30 sec channel to bring a vessel back up from down-state with 20% health (the same mechanic planned for the final Leadership node) both must complete the channel before the 2 minute timer auto respawns the player.  The group with a man down will want to either resurrect the body if they can or guard it for 2 minutes until respawn.   Enemies will really want to get an exorcist to the body with its own 30 sec channel or just do the 6 sec Coups de Gras channeled power that sends the vessel and crow packing with a doubled vessel decay and a full loot of equipment and inventory.  It makes every down-state player a POI on the battlefield.

This would mean vessel looting requires a difficult to gain discipline that is attached to a vessel that can be destroyed or looted...   a very valuable addition to a group comp.  The Coupe de Gras power could be a minor discipline power.

Basic common vessels are not lootable, they grey parts are not worth the weight or effort to build from.

 

Edited by Frykka
grammer, spelling... what else?

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2 hours ago, Frykka said:

At least 2/3 of your Archetype overall combat power comes from the vessel, it's imbedded disciplines, and the gear it is wearing.   Losing your skin ship is perma-loss of your skin ship whether is decays over time or is taken.  In all CWs your vessel will decay and eventually be gone.  In the Dregs it could happen sooner, however most players will only bring out their finest setup for pivotal battles like siege defense.   Remember that you will not have an at will spirit bank and thus nobody will be carrying an extra vessel.  Vessel storage may be a vault you actually fill and take from in a temple...   your home temple at an EK, your faction temple, or even a constructed and placed temple inside your fortifications.

I'm sorry but vessels are a piece of gear, losing a vessel is like losing gear, but that is not permadeath.  Permadeath would be your character getting wiped from a server and you having a hard reset.  With the account wide training you will never have a hard reset, at best they can make campaigns that lock you out after a certain amount of deaths, that would be permanent death, getting locked out of a campaign once you die.  Permadeath is not regearing your account after you lose a vessel.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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12 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry but vessels are a piece of gear, losing a vessel is like losing gear, but that is not permadeath.  Permadeath would be your character getting wiped from a server and you having a hard reset.  With the account wide training you will never have a hard reset, at best they can make campaigns that lock you out after a certain amount of deaths, that would be permanent death, getting locked out of a campaign once you die.  Permadeath is not regearing your account after you lose a vessel.

"vessel looting is as close to perma death as any killer could ask for..."     the inherent premise here in my statement never declared it as such.

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50 minutes ago, Frykka said:

"vessel looting is as close to perma death as any killer could ask for..."     the inherent premise here in my statement never declared it as such.

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You literally say it is as close to permadeath as any killer could ask for, when it isn't remotely close to permadeath.  Notice that my response to such post literally responds to your post directly, and you should not be quoting posts that occur later that aren't responding directly to the post, out of context.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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They were, they weren't, who can say...   probably not in the short term but the possibility is always there in the module ruleset.  Is there a term for trolling a moot point?  Ack!
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Edited by Frykka

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It will surely be sad if vessels are no longer lootable even by some sort of hardcore ruleset.  Should give actual hardcore players a playground to play in, some of us don't want or need training wheels. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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3 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

It will surely be sad if vessels are no longer lootable even by some sort of hardcore ruleset.  Should give actual hardcore players a playground to play in, some of us don't want or need training wheels. 

I'm just making an assumption based on an explanation regarding how they work. I can't even come up with the exact quote so I could just be flat wrong.

I wanted to say it went something along the lines that a vessel will remain on a character until it either loses durability or is replaced by the player.

 

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Okay you guys dont want lore reasons? Then lets say that the vessels are not lootable, do you know what that means? META. This game said that everyone would be unique at some point but vessels are a MUST for anyone that play this game, so many plus status... Everyone got tired of Uncle BOB because he was a god and the new players would not find his game fun anymore, right now, with the vessels system, everyone at some point and time, will have the top tier vessel, i am sure of that, they have guilds, crafters friends and thats nice, then... BOOM new players dont have friends, dont have a guild yet, they will come in a world to test and the, die... die... die... Because he did not train enough disciplines? maybe, but i am sure that his white vessel against the other legendary vessels are quite a big disparity. 

Want to say in the point of view of a crafter? Of course you guys wanna have vessel crafting,necromancy is the first tree many gonna level up. That i am sure. 

Now, dont say that RP is not important to this discussion okay? There is people that like craft, there is people that like pvp and there is people that like rp and for them do you know how wrong is a paladin (light side one) is to use the vessel from a necromancer? Thats just wrong, sorry man, respect all the community. 

 

Edited by vaands

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1 hour ago, Tark said:

I thought Vessels weren't going to be lootable?

 

 

Yes, they did say Vessels would not be lootable, but then said that they would most likely be lootable in "The Dregs". 

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On 4/17/2017 at 10:19 PM, coolwaters said:

This is really funny to me. 

The conclusion that the vessel system provides a motive NOT to buy alt accounts, if that's really the suggestion here, is incorrect.

Did you just tell me my opinion is wrong? 

All I'm saying is that I like  the idea of being able to play any class from the same 'account/character'. If I've been playing Crowfall for 10 years, I don't want to have to make a new  account to try something new when I could do all that within the same character and just 'equip' a different class/body.

Personally, I hate having alts in MMOs. I'ved played most of them, including WoW for a number of years, I'd always make an alt to try new things, but I'd NEVER get invested in them beyond my main because that's where I'd spent my time. I'd rather spend a few months skilling my main up to try a different class than make a new character I'll give up on and never log in on again. 

For me, I'd be much less inclined to make alts if my main could inhabit different class roles, so I don't understand why you say that opinion is incorrect.

Added to the fact that I believe premium members can skill 3 classes at once, that's basically like having 3 potential alts on 1 character - without the unnecessary false server population inflation, and having a bunch of alts that people never play tied into their accounts.

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8 hours ago, Robbolo said:

Did you just tell me my opinion is wrong? 

All I'm saying is that I like  the idea of being able to play any class from the same 'account/character'. If I've been playing Crowfall for 10 years, I don't want to have to make a new  account to try something new when I could do all that within the same character and just 'equip' a different class/body.

 

The problem is, currently if you want to try something new that relates to the economy, ALT's that you have passively pre-trained for 6 months or more, are the only way to go. Changing archetype has almost no impact on your access to crafting, harvesting, and other economic skills.

That's why VIP does not address the problem of ALT's.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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On 4/19/2017 at 9:40 PM, Regulus said:

Yes, they did say Vessels would not be lootable, but then said that they would most likely be lootable in "The Dregs". 

Depends - they've said both. Originally, they said it would maybe be possible for people to loot the vessel you were wearing in the Dregs, but later they said that would probably not ever be happening. For vessels that are in your inventory, however, there's been a lot less specificity - those are just items, so one assumes they will be subject to normal loot rules, whatever those are. If the limit is on the number of items, maybe they are easy to loot. If the limit is on the number of squares, maybe not so much. Too many unanswered questions to say much with certainty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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14 hours ago, Robbolo said:

Did you just tell me my opinion is wrong? 

 

No and I don't see how you got that from my post:

Quote

This is really funny to me. 

The conclusion that the vessel system provides a motive NOT to buy alt accounts, if that's really the suggestion here, is incorrect.

It's not your opinion that's wrong. It's your conclusion that the vessel mechanic discourages the use of atl accounts in Crowfall.

The opposite is true and it has nothing to do with either of our opinions.

Quote

All I'm saying is that I like  the idea of being able to play any class from the same 'account/character'.

I get that you like that idea. I do too. However, that idea isn't practical in CF under the current design because of the very motivation you got backwards above. I'd even love to just be able to consume some of the harvesting and crafting content on 1 account that could also train combat.

The vessels are all but meaningless without the skill training. You can only train one AT skill unless you buy VIP. If you buy VIP for combat purposes (or any purpose really) then you are throwing money away compared to just buying an alt account or 3 because you could achieve a far more dramatic general combat training advantage over using VIP while training exactly the same AT skills far more cheaply with alt accounts.

The thing Blazzen, myself an many others have been suggesting would give you what you want: reasonable convenience in consuming more content. And we're willing to pay for that convenience, within reason.

Edited by coolwaters
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14 hours ago, Robbolo said:

Added to the fact that I believe premium members can skill 3 classes at once, that's basically like having 3 potential alts on 1 character - without the unnecessary false server population inflation, and having a bunch of alts that people never play tied into their accounts.

I mean, if you think paying a few hundred bucks extra a year to do exactly the same thing you can do with 3 basic accounts is a value then kudos to you.

It is an economically inefficient view and it isn't really close. Most players would not agree that made sense. Ask your friends and guild mates why they bought all those alt accounts. Because they have definitely bought em. We all have, or most all have.

Edited by coolwaters
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