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So I have a concern that came up when I tried the ArcheAge fresh start servers. Essentially Arche now periodically opens servers you have to have a fresh account to play on. The early rush phase is super important to get in on and everyone waits to be the first to connect on the day the server comes up.

This doesn't sound that different from Crowfall campaigns. I imagine there will be strong strategic advantages to being first into the world so you can stake your claim on the best land plots, discover the best resources, and get as much gear and infrastructure in place as possible before anyone else does.

Here is the issue. On day one of the ArcheAge servers, the massive number of people trying to connect wrecked the server. It took hours to connect and once you did connect it was incredibly unstable. Day 1 was the highest population these servers would ever see and servers built to handle the normal traffic they could usually expect just weren't able to handle it. 

So here is the topics for discussion:

1. Does Crowfall have any measures in place to ensure server stability or avoid a rush that would overload the servers?

2. If not, or the answer to question 1 is unknown, what measures could be taken to avoid a server crashing day one rush?

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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With Crowfall CW's in Shadows/Dregs you will not be land locked like ArchAge where you can only build in select areas.  Organized guilds will always come out ahead over solo's or smaller groups and there is no way around that.  Every player will be restricted by the same embargo rules though so that will limit what power each player/group/guild will start with.

On the Faction rule set buildings will be pre-selected by ACE on the map and you will not be able to free-build.  This eliminates the issue of a land rush that you experience in ArchAge.

Edited by Weebles

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@Weebles The embargo rules actually really help create the situation I'm talking about that. I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone leaning towards going dregs or GvG.

Essentially with embargo rules you are thrown into the wilderness with a knife. It's almost like starting an Age of Empires match I would imagine. You need to start building and gathering resources as quickly as possible to advance your defences and the capabilities of your combatants as quickly as possible. If one guild gets most of their guys in pretty early and another gets most of them late it could essentially be a situation where the first guild is in the Feudal Ages while the second is in the Dark Ages, allowing them to roll over them and create a power disparity the second guild will have to work exceptionally hard to overcome.

Relating it back into terms of Crowfall, essentially you can use your extra time in game to get better weapons, armor, erect defences, etc. so that when latecomers get in your infrastructure has some form of defences while you can free farm them for resources. Maybe I'm overestimating the importance of getting in early but I assume playing the game gives advantages over not playing the game and people will want to be in ASAP.

@Jah That is also a perk of a premium subscription on ArcheAge. On day one of the fresh starts, premiums were the only people getting in at all, but there was so many of even those that the servers were crashing. The other thing is we were all sitting there spamming the server status refresh button to be first to get into the queues. It was causing clients to crash, and when you did get in, the instability could cause the game to crash and put you back at the end of the queue.

It might be wise to go for safe rather than sorry with Crowfall and have a more intelligent queue system in place ahead of time. They lost a lot of potential subscribers due to dissatisfaction over the launch of the fresh start servers.

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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One potential solution I was thinking of for GvG worlds at least is that you pre-register to play on the world, and declare your guild when you do. Once that happens there is a system that looks at how many guilds there are and how big each guild is, then allows them onto the server in waves.

For simplicity sake lets just say there are two 50 man guilds and a hundred man guild, and there are five "waves." The two 50 man guilds can select 10 members of their guilds allowed in each wave and the 100 man guild could select 20 of theirs allowed in each wave.

This insures each guild is let onto the server at roughly the same rate, without crashing the servers because all 200 people are all fighting to log in at once. It also creates the fun aspect of selecting your "vanguard" and who they will need to support them at what stages. A lot of strategy can go into deciding who gets in with what wave.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Well could be just that Trion doesn't have very good hardware or support for that hardware. When I played the game it could barely handle anything above 20 or so people fighting in the same area without massive lag and hitching going on.

With ACE purposely design the game for the "land rush" for every new CW I would hope performance will be much better in CF.

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1 hour ago, pang said:

Well could be just that Trion doesn't have very good hardware or support for that hardware. When I played the game it could barely handle anything above 20 or so people fighting in the same area without massive lag and hitching going on.

With ACE purposely design the game for the "land rush" for every new CW I would hope performance will be much better in CF.

With Trion's disastrous launch of the fresh start servers we're talking pushing back the release date on the day of release because they weren't prepared for it, then the game being nearly unplayable with massive queues and stability issues for the first few days of launch. I wouldn't run tradepacks for the first week or two of release because I was too concerned I would get DCed and not be able to get back in for an hour.

Yes. I don't think it will be as bad a Trion, largely because this is going to be the release of a bunch of smaller servers and it's going to be happening more constantly.

I do think this is something they need to be thinking long and hard about and that it's worth brainstorming over solutions and alleviations to these problems as a community though. Because if the campaign launches are even half a quarter as bad a lot of people will get very negative first impressions of the game and may not give it another shot. I assume everyone here wants CF to be as successful as possible?

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Crowfall doesn't have the vertical progression you see in archeage.  If you can't beat others into server you will always be behind in any game.  But crowfall worlds are temporary so it is not the end of the world. 

We would be lucky for crowfall to have problems with overpopulation, where they can just spin up more servers. 

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Yep, they said that the game would have many worlds at the same time, i don't think it will be a problem... Only if everyone enter the same campaign and that campaign dont have a limit amount of people, than... That would be hell

Edited by vaands

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In the early game...   those first cws, your skills are not tied to your in game like in AA.   You are leveling the important things outside of the in-game race.   Frankly, there is only so much you can get ahead on slag, knotwood, and cobblestone...  putting together sets of basic armor and weapons and then exploring and skirmishing in that basic gear while the gatherers and crafters get through the basic skills and unlock the pipelines to better quality and the recipes to better gear.   When we get to campaign rush where we have stronger crafting and gathering skills, probably the 3rd cycle of worlds to play in, there should be enough worlds available that players are somewhat spread out.  There won't be bottleneck quests and land grabs in the way AA server ups happened, there may be some queueing for a few hours.

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I'm hoping they are learning from events like the first time faction server came up....

I actually feel that a lot of Day 1 people will be messing around in their EK's, just waiting for skill ups, the rest will be meeting up with friends and guildies and trying to see how much trouble they can stir up.

Not sure how much I care about a land grab if I/we can destroy and/or take your stuff.

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Also even if one group may get ahead of you in gear, if they dont know how the fight well, you can gang up on them with more numbers, or just outplay them and then take their equipment for yourself

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This is a huge issue for games like Archeage that have a limited number of permanent servers. There is no way to balance the launch-rush population with 3-month or 6-month later population. If they open enough servers to avoid massive queues at the start, then servers will have to be merged or closed later to maintain good active populations.

Crowfall's Campaign World design greatly improves on that situation because ACE can start up more worlds as needed, and the worlds have an intended finite lifespan.

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One of ACE's partners, Travian Games, has experience with world rush systems.  Though "just" a web based game, they have had to deal with new world rush to run down as it's core to the basic game.

Also ACE has been pretty clear they are going for a build up marketing model, and not a opening day get everybody in model.

I'm sure there will be bumps, but I'm equally sure they will be able to make it over them.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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AA was a poorly made socks show on release in NA, I remember the Queue's were so horrendous that people literally just quit and never played again. A good work around would be to say "Ok servers go live at 5:00 pm est" (time is just an example) then say "Campaigns will go live at 8:00 pm est". This gives them 3 hours to deal with any Queues, server melt downs, apocalyptic happenings, you know the usual release stuff. So for 3 hours if its smooth sailing you can go play in your EK, organize your guild, or whatever you like while giving ACE some breathing room at the "everyone cross your fingers" time.

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:39 AM, Andius said:

So I have a concern that came up when I tried the ArcheAge fresh start servers. Essentially Arche now periodically opens servers you have to have a fresh account to play on. The early rush phase is super important to get in on and everyone waits to be the first to connect on the day the server comes up.

This doesn't sound that different from Crowfall campaigns. I imagine there will be strong strategic advantages to being first into the world so you can stake your claim on the best land plots, discover the best resources, and get as much gear and infrastructure in place as possible before anyone else does.

Here is the issue. On day one of the ArcheAge servers, the massive number of people trying to connect wrecked the server. It took hours to connect and once you did connect it was incredibly unstable. Day 1 was the highest population these servers would ever see and servers built to handle the normal traffic they could usually expect just weren't able to handle it. 

So here is the topics for discussion:

1. Does Crowfall have any measures in place to ensure server stability or avoid a rush that would overload the servers?

2. If not, or the answer to question 1 is unknown, what measures could be taken to avoid a server crashing day one rush?

Best thing to do is to wait 10 days till lag clears up.  If not then just play and see how it is.  They will always be conservative on their server estimates and bandwidth cause of $$$.  So you will always see lag at launch they are a business first and its all about the $$$.  

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The overall effect of "land rush" would be somewhat blunted by the impermanence of the campaign structure and the far lower utility of land for the individual player.

That rush is going to be important, but where crowfall differs is the implicit cooperation at all phases of the game when compared to something like archeage. Archeage's structure was a huge problem because of the combination of limited build space combined with massive need, not just desire, to own land, combined again with the inability to crush holdings that were in your way.

Simply putting down a plot in Archeage meant you were essentially permanent holder of that space, even if 500 people wanted to take it from you. Putting down a plot in archeage was also essential to getting literally anything done, as the entire economy revolved around farming on said plots of land. Finally, there was massive incentive to own land specifically for cosmetic regions. A large portion of claimable land was claimed just because people wanted housing.

In CF, housing on campaign worlds is largely unimportant because of the EK system, which greatly blunts the desire to rush. In practice land use seems to follow a model much closer to shadowbane, in which land is best utilized as a shared space for groups of individuals, is used for practical purposes first and foremost, and comes with the implicit expectation of needing to defend it.

You're worried about land rush because you think you need to own land, because in Archeage you totally needed to own land at an individual level. The design, as far as I can tell, is that the per-player need to actually own land is quite low. In stead, you want to be in a faction/guild that owns land because you benefit from it just as much as the individual that "owns" it.

In Archeage, just to craft, you needed to own at the very least a farming plot or two for basic personal materials, as well as a housing plot in order to place your crafting buff items because you could only actually craft at a high level in a residence you owned with those things installed. You could technically use benches you didn't own (in say a guild house) but it was a waste of time.

Crowfall's system seems to encourage communal use of spaces like that. You don't need to own farmland because you're meant to get base materials in the world (where you compete with other players for them) and every single crafter doesn't need to personally own crafting facilities (because a guild or faction can set up one very good facility which all its members can benefit from at the highest level)

 

Archeage's land claim system was just a poorly made socksty design from the ground up because it placed a huge emphasis on individuals owning land while simultaneously not having any mechanism for players to forcibly take land from one another, and while offering little to no incentives for players to cooperatively utilize land beyond as a place to park trade packs.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Trion is a terrible publisher, Archeage is an amazing game that they destroyed. I have more faith in Artcraft than that, Blizzard I'm sure has massive login rushes on new content days, as many other companies do, that do not suffer the 3 days of downtime Trion is famous for. 

( I mean if i had Trion faith in these guys, I wouldn't be a backer)

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