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Some underwhelming parcels


Daddie
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So,

Before we all got some testing EK parcels to play around I played with my own parcels.. some farmland, a woodland grove and a shire parcel.

In the beginning I didn't know what to think about the parcels. For example the shire parcel doesn't have the perfect flat spot for the fort it came with. But I also had the feeling things feel a bit small compared what I expected based on the store information. While the shire parcel felt "long" enough the "width" feels just too small. 

With the woodland grove I expected a nice forest but it felt more like some tree growing together, although I must admit my English is not my native language. After I Googled "Tree grove" I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_(nature) and it seems the woodland grove is rather spot on :)

With the current testing session we all got a Woodland Hills parcel and a Woodland Creek parcel. Those two parcels I find really underwhelming. For example the hills don't feel like hills but more like couple lumps of sand and the creek is more like a ditch of water.

All in all I got the same feeling with the Villa I got. It just doesn't feel like a Villa.

I don't know if the designs are in an (almost) final state but I wanted to express my concern. With the EK's being an unique Crowfall selling point it would be a shame if people find the EK's "meh" when they actually walk around in their EK.

Thanks for reading and I hope the Crowfall team will read the topic.

 

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The game isnt in Pre-Alpha, its Alpha and soon Beta.

And you cant excuse everything with that its Alpha.

Honestly the parcels were made in 5 minutes, and they look like it.
All the trees already look really terrible for itself, they are nothing else than standard Unity Engine trees I bet.
And the parcels look like a total unexperienced person went into Unity Engine and made them.
Even I could make better landscapes in Unity Engine probably.

And dont think they will make new parcels or so, this is the final design.
The parcels really look terrible and boring, totally amateur. I wouldnt accept such work if I was a producer.
The parcels are basically all flat terrain with some trees placed here and there.

I was looking at Rend recently, this game is very similar to Crowfall and even got the same art design/style.
But damn, this game looks just soo much better.
And not only do the graphics look so much better, but the landscapes, the game world, look so much better and so much more interesting as well.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/547860/

Look at the video. This is real Pre Alpha. And compare that to Crowfall almost in Beta.

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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If you develop a small easy peasy online game, and after 2 and a half year you are still in pre alpha, you should just shut it down and get a different job.

Pre-Alpha is a bit more than a tech demo. If you think this is still Pre-Alpha, you understand nothing about game development. This is alpha and soon it will or should be beta, or the game will never soft launch before 2019.

I cant write anymore than that, without getting silenced again by ACE, so dont ask things that are apparently clear.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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It is always good to hear everyone's opinions.  Allows for a wider field of vision.  I appreciate the information and you taking the time to educate me on game development status.  Still curious as to what industry standard for phase determination you're citing.  Information like that makes it easier for me to properly evaluate the status.

Also World of Warcraft took more than 4 years to develop by an established company with more than 30 times the financial resources (in 1999) and hundreds more in staffing.  2019 doesn't seem to unreasonable.  Thanks again for the info.

 

Edited by Mr. Kurtz
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They wanted to release the full game by Dec. 2016. If they would still be in Pre Alpha it would be a desaster.

If you cant get a game project after 2 and a half year out of Pre Alpha you failed and should shut down the game and get a different job.

This wouldnt even be Beta Hell, its Pre Alpha Hell, and games never come out of that, games like that die before they are known.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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@Urahara I understand that you are disappointed of the hard delays of the game. ( me too)  But i guess 3-4 years is a standart development time for mmoish games. Just chill and judge the game when it is full released ( expect 2018 for that) and if it's never published so be it than. (not a big thing for me) There a tons of other games to come in future you can pick from, just stay calm and don't rage/insult every week again in the forums, we get your point man but if you already done with crowfall why are you still here spread around your old opinions mixed with some obvious trashtalk and wasting your time ? (And seriously why are you so in rage with crowfall development, I in your place would just quit following the project and don't care about it, in the end it is just a pc game. You seem to be in a rage mode or something :D)


 
Edited by Kreigon

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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1 hour ago, Kreigon said:

@Urahara I understand that you are disappointed of the hard delays of the game. ( me too)  But i guess 3-4 years is a standart development time for mmoish games. Just chill and judge the game when it is full released ( expect 2018 for that) and if it's never published so be it than. (not a big thing for me) There a tons of other games to come in future you can pick from, just stay calm and don't rage/insult every week again in the forums, we get your point man but if you already done with crowfall why are you still here spread around your old opinions mixed with some obvious trashtalk and wasting your time ? (And seriously why are you so in rage with crowfall development, I in your place would just quit following the project and don't care about it, in the end it is just a pc game. You seem to be in a rage mode or something :D)

If there was something like 10 games out there that would be interesting, I would play them instead of backing unfinished games. But almost no new MMOs are being made anymore. EverQuest Next was the last one. All that comes now are Indie MMOs and cash grabs. And almost not a single one of them got potential to ever become really good. If they would all work on one game, maybe something good could come out, but with 20 indie studios making 20 small MMOs, not a single one is going to get anything done.

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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1 hour ago, Urahara said:

If there was something like 10 games out there that would be interesting, I would play them instead of backing unfinished games. But almost no new MMOs are being made anymore. EverQuest Next was the last one. All that comes now are Indie MMOs and cash grabs. And almost not a single one of them got potential to ever become really good. If they would all work on one game, maybe something good could come out, but with 20 indie studios making 20 small MMOs, not a single one is going to get anything done.

 

"I'm not good at googling things and would rather be angry than happy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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2 hours ago, Urahara said:

If there was something like 10 games out there that would be interesting, I would play them instead of backing unfinished games. But almost no new MMOs are being made anymore. EverQuest Next was the last one. All that comes now are Indie MMOs and cash grabs. And almost not a single one of them got potential to ever become really good. If they would all work on one game, maybe something good could come out, but with 20 indie studios making 20 small MMOs, not a single one is going to get anything done.

All new MMO's that are coming out really fast all suck so I'm going to be mad at this MMO that is taking a while to come out... Maybe you should rethink what your saying and realize maybe in order to make a decent MMO it takes more time than the normal cash grab coming out every two years.

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10 hours ago, Daddie said:

In the beginning I didn't know what to think about the parcels. For example the shire parcel doesn't have the perfect flat spot for the fort it came with. Bu

Before we all got some testing EK parcels to play around I played with my own parcels.. some farmland, a woodland grove ant I also had the feeling things feel a bit small compared what I expected based on the store information. While the shire parcel felt "long" enough the "width" feels just too small. 

There are a lot of parcels  the rank 2-3-4 cities and fortresses that are in developement...   you are getting the free look at the single square cheapies.

What you seem to miss here is that the parcel and layout of the entire campaign maps can be procedurally generated Like a fractal so the ability to add, change, and quickly create a new campaign scenerio without a patch to the client or any major update is simple.  The devs lay out the strategic interests and special features of the map and let the generator build the remaining world around that.   This lets us play many forms and rulesets of battles on ever changing maps  Hills don't need to be bigger than necessary for tactical los, water does need to have a slow or swim mechanic though... the walk underwater thing is lame.

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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7 hours ago, Urahara said:

If you develop a small easy peasy online game, and after 2 and a half year you are still in pre alpha, you should just shut it down and get a different job.

Pre-Alpha are a bit more than a tech demo. If you think this is still Pre-Alpha, you understand nothing about game development. This is alpha and soon it will or should be beta, or the game will never soft launch before 2019.

I cant write anymore thant that, without getting silenced again by ACE, so dont ask things that are apparently clear.

Do you really think online games are easy and quick to develop? poorly made socks, offline games can take years depending on the size of the team and scope of the project. Just look at Zelda, and they had hundreds of developers working on that. Elder Scrolls Online took 5+ years to develop, and they had a team of hundreds, Wildstar took 8+ years, and they had a sizable team also. Sure, you'll make the whole "well they built their engine from scratch argument", but you have to realize that an engine is really just a set of tools. You still need to use those tools to build something, and depending on what you're building , that can take a long while. 

Edited by izkimar
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All.. As a developer myself I know what pre-alpha, alpha and beta means. Why did I post this topic? The developers ask to post opinions on the forums when you close the game, so I did.

Replies like "The game is in Pre-Alpha.  Wonderful insight." doens't help Crowfall, in fact I think it is destructive for the development in general. As long as we have constructive discussions between eachother and the developer it will benefit Crowfall in the end! I expressed my opinion about the current parcel size and graphics, I don't know if they are final and I don't care. I hope the Crowfall devs can use my topic to improve the game.

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56 minutes ago, Daddie said:

All.. As a developer myself I know what pre-alpha, alpha and beta means. Why did I post this topic? The developers ask to post opinions on the forums when you close the game, so I did.

Replies like "The game is in Pre-Alpha.  Wonderful insight." doens't help Crowfall, in fact I think it is destructive for the development in general. As long as we have constructive discussions between eachother and the developer it will benefit Crowfall in the end! I expressed my opinion about the current parcel size and graphics, I don't know if they are final and I don't care. I hope the Crowfall devs can use my topic to improve the game.

All well and good.  Remember the community you are talking to though, we are strategic and tactical PvP players looking for good combat in tactical situations.  How does that change the expectations for parcel size, variation, and features when we start with the procedurally generated map premise.   We want tactical features and not fluff...   does a mountain or canyon parcel have well designed choke points, ambush spots, terrain features that enhance tactics is a much greater concern than prettiness.   Is the hill a good observation post?  Where is the best defensible spot...   these are what you should talk to this crowd about, how the parcels will effect our bread and butter, the PvP.

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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1 minute ago, Frykka said:

All well and good.  Remember the community you are talking to though, we are strategic and tactical PvP players looking for good combat in tactical situations.  How does that change the expectations for parcel size, variation, and features when we start with the procedurally generated map premise.   We want tactical features and not fluff...   does a mountain or canyon parcel have well designed choke, points, ambush spots, terrain feature that enhance tactics is a much greater concern than prettiness.   Is the hill a good observation post?  Where is the best defensible spot...   these are what you should talk to this crowd about, how the parcels will effect our bread and butter, the PvP.

True.. although I am more of a support role guy then a fighter. But I find the environment important, as do you although a bit less then me. There is always a bare minimum what people would accept on the graphics aspect. For Crowfall the EK is an unique selling point, one I also looking forward to. And EK's aren't PvP, although you could enable it for fun, so people (and I) expect other things from the parcels. 

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On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:55 PM, Daddie said:

True.. although I am more of a support role guy then a fighter. But I find the environment important, as do you although a bit less then me. There is always a bare minimum what people would accept on the graphics aspect. For Crowfall the EK is an unique selling point, one I also looking forward to. And EK's aren't PvP, although you could enable it for fun, so people (and I) expect other things from the parcels. 

Parcels are a core feature of the cycling worlds we will fight over and conquer before they die, the game loop is designed around parcels made for strategic and tactical play first and foremost...   EKs as a feature will not sell this game, neither will the prettiness of the graphics.  It will be the quality of the combat and the hype of the pitched battles.

 

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Just now, Frykka said:

Parcels are a core feature of the cycling worlds we will fight over and conquer before they die, the game loop is designed around parcels made for strategic and tactical play first and foremost...   EKs as a feature will not sell this game, the quality of the combat and the hype of the pitched battles will.

Well.. if you implement a feature you better make it's good or leave it out... people don't accept half products..

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