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Architecture and geomancy - Official discussion thread

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I still don't think we've been given and adequate answer to a very basic question:

What do the players who stay in the EKs have to offer the players who fought in the Campaigns in exchange for their hard earned resources?

As it stands, I don't think they have anything to offer at all. When a round of Campaigns end, the combatants may end going to some hub in order to trade between each other for the resources they're missing, but that hub will likely be built and maintained by someone who fought in those campaigns. Sitting around in your EK waiting for weeks and months for a campaign to end, only to look for handouts from campaigners doesn't seem like a viable way to play the game.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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1 hour ago, Solstar said:

@thomasblair, will the farmland parcels we got from packages be usable in the geomancer recipes. And will they still be tax free when used in this way. 

Please say yes to both.  ☺

We will probably end up making some special recipes for the tax free stuff which only accept the tax free version of the parcels. This way we don't have to worry about retaining the data 1 tax free parcel and 32 non tax free parcels were used to make this other parcel.

1 hour ago, Hyriol said:

I think we'll see some early economy-based discipline runes that will cover that training gap, for example a "Miner" rune that adds a chunk of skill for excavating.  If they were tied to the earliest runemaking skills, we could see them as early as 2-3 weeks of training.  Perhaps earlier if they chose to make them "basic" runes.

The first few campaigns are going to be rough no doubt as people gain the initial skills required to do anything. Going from 0 to full speed economy doesn't happen overnight. That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes.

Hyriol did hit on a technique I prototyped last weekend with the weapon efficiency stat on weapons. In the next update this stat will be more important and if you have a weapon in which the crafter didn't put points into efficiency, the cost of your powers will go up and might make you sad. However there is a passive power in your powers UI that grants a reduction to this stat. All it costs is 1 of your 3 passive slots. Which means if you can't get a good weapon, equip the passive. If you can, you just bought a passive slot back that could be used for something like " basic attacks deal 10% more damage " or something else like the group leadership passive.

Over time better resource acquisition from the harvesters, and crafters with more experimentation points will make passives like this not needed. We will make some of these passives to be used as leg ups for as many of the key systems that require them.

 


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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Geomancy - This skill endows awesome cosmic power, but is useless in the CW.

Any account specializing in geomancy will surely be an alt. And even a big guild should only want 1.

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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1 minute ago, thomasblair said:

We will probably end up making some special recipes for the tax free stuff which only accept the tax free version of the parcels. This way we don't have to worry about retaining the data 1 tax free parcel and 32 non tax free parcels were used to make this other parcel.

"Tax free parcels" is still a thing? Which parcels are tax free? Just the ones from the Kickstarter? Or are the Farmlands available in the store right now tax free? Or are there technically two kinds of Farmland?


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Any chance that we could have access to the crafting recipes 24x7  

(I don't need the actual crafting, but it would be nice to have a online reference with all the various combines)

For example, you just commented that there are a bunch of new stoneworking recipes...

There's no way to look at any of this for another three days.

 


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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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16 minutes ago, thomasblair said:


Hyriol did hit on a technique I prototyped last weekend with the weapon efficiency stat on weapons. In the next update this stat will be more important and if you have a weapon in which the crafter didn't put points into efficiency, the cost of your powers will go up and might make you sad. However there is a passive power in your powers UI that grants a reduction to this stat. All it costs is 1 of your 3 passive slots. Which means if you can't get a good weapon, equip the passive. If you can, you just bought a passive slot back that could be used for something like " basic attacks deal 10% more damage " or something else like the group leadership passive.
 

So @thomasblair is your passive example equipping a Weapon Discipline specifically crafted to match the weapon you archetype uses to get the lift you are talking about? and we can plan to swap out these for the more impact-ful Major Discipline stones once we have trained up our combat skills not to need the passive lift? 

aNkaDnD.png


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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32 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Hyriol did hit on a technique I prototyped last weekend with the weapon efficiency stat on weapons. In the next update this stat will be more important and if you have a weapon in which the crafter didn't put points into efficiency, the cost of your powers will go up and might make you sad.

Question: Why is weapon efficiency inherent for Archetype weapons where it is literally useless? (e.g. ranger bow and arrows, duelist rapier and pistol, templar sword and presumably the assassin daggers and all their pips. Also does it do anything for druids - i assume not or would it make you get less OR more essence even if it did? Does it do anything for knights and stamina?)

Just very inconsistent and basically a crafting pip trap for newbies 

32 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

the group leadership passive.

p.s. is this meant to be even working yet? I am into training the combat leadership branch and have never had the buff appear even if I am group leader. Also does the leader get the buff benefits too out of interest?

Edited by Tinnis

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55 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

p.s. is this meant to be even working yet? I am into training the combat leadership branch and have never had the buff appear even if I am group leader. Also does the leader get the buff benefits too out of interest?

I believe Blair said that the Skill Trees don't have the tech to grant players anything but stats. So just as how Exotic Arrows don't allow you to equip Slashing and Crushing Arrows (yet), the Leadership Tree doesn't have the tech to grant you the Leadership buff (yet). 


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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1 hour ago, thomasblair said:

We will probably end up making some special recipes for the tax free stuff which only accept the tax free version of the parcels. This way we don't have to worry about retaining the data 1 tax free parcel and 32 non tax free parcels were used to make this other parcel.

The first few campaigns are going to be rough no doubt as people gain the initial skills required to do anything. Going from 0 to full speed economy doesn't happen overnight. That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes.

Hyriol did hit on a technique I prototyped last weekend with the weapon efficiency stat on weapons. In the next update this stat will be more important and if you have a weapon in which the crafter didn't put points into efficiency, the cost of your powers will go up and might make you sad. However there is a passive power in your powers UI that grants a reduction to this stat. All it costs is 1 of your 3 passive slots. Which means if you can't get a good weapon, equip the passive. If you can, you just bought a passive slot back that could be used for something like " basic attacks deal 10% more damage " or something else like the group leadership passive.

Over time better resource acquisition from the harvesters, and crafters with more experimentation points will make passives like this not needed. We will make some of these passives to be used as leg ups for as many of the key systems that require them.

 

Really glad tax free parcels are still a thing, as iirc they were kind up in the air last you guys said something on them. On that note will the only way to get tax free parcels be from the cash shop/kickstarter thing or will they be earnable in game as well?


Check out my youtube channel for testing gameplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-AgZ6mHOVObusemDVEXoA

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*Sigh* The closer we get to launch the more i think EK will only be useful to big groups (AKA Guilds). This Geomancy stuff seems like a HUUUUGE money sink that only groups can accept the costs. Buy this? This is the kind of stuff single players (or even small groups) will never touch.

I still think EKs are cool but right now i dont have a single reason to bother with them instead of playing a campaign.

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I don't see how Geomancy could really fit into CWs, but I could see how it might be used to make EKs more fun; parcel that houses a flag to capture or some such that might allow you to mimic CW conditions or provide a controlled means for guild dueling in your own EKs?

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17 hours ago, thomasblair said:

The first few campaigns are going to be rough no doubt as people gain the initial skills required to do anything. Going from 0 to full speed economy doesn't happen overnight. That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes.
 

"That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes." is  more than likely 0.001% of the current gaming population and its something every new player will have to go through.

Might want to keep that in mind as you plan to grow the game. (Ignoring the fact that it would actually be more difficult for a new person going up against an established economy with zero way to contribute.)

Edited by Vectious

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19 minutes ago, Vectious said:

"That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes." is  more than likely 0.001% of the current gaming population and its something every new player will have to go through.

Might want to keep that in mind as you plan to grow the game. 

I disagree. That happens in every MMO. You cant expect to solo bosses in your first day. You start low and make your way up. Not saying everyone likes that but starting with crappy character is the basic premisse of MMO.

That is what will happen here, people will start the game at "lvl 1" so it makes perfect sense that the beggining is rough.

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31 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I disagree. That happens in every MMO. You cant expect to solo bosses in your first day. You start low and make your way up. Not saying everyone likes that but starting with crappy character is the basic premisse of MMO.

That is what will happen here, people will start the game at "lvl 1" so it makes perfect sense that the beggining is rough.

You are disagreeing with me by comparing apples to washing machines,

There is a curve that the game develops for the character to progress. Game spend thousands if not  hundred of thousands of hours to develop the proper curve for players as they level up so they are neither stagnant with to difficult of a challenge or bored with to easy of an challenge. These games are designed with careful content gating that opens up as you progress. You dont, from level one as you say, run in to level 60 monsters.

 

There is nothing in crowfall that will do this. You will literally enter the game as a 'level one' to the full experience of the game. And be able to do literally nothing but be crushed by other players both economically, financially, physically(well virtually), and more than likely mentally. You dont go up against 'like same' conditions as in other MMO's. For months.

Edited by Vectious

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16 minutes ago, Vectious said:

You are disagreeing with me by comparing apples to washing machines,

There is a curve that the game develops for the character to progress. Game spend thousands if not  hundred of thousands of hours to develop the proper curve for players as they level up so they are neither stagnant with to difficult of a challenge or bored with to easy of an challenge. These games are designed with careful content gating that opens up as you progress. You dont, from level one as you say, run in to level 60 monsters.

 

There is nothing in crowfall that will do this. You will literally enter the game as a 'level one' to the full experience of the game. And be able to do literally nothing but be crushed by other players both economically, financially, physically(well virtually), and more than likely mentally. For months.

hmm i understand. You was talking of the viewpoint of new players getting in the game later. That is a valid concern, as far as i can see new players will really have a big disvantage competing with veterans.

Maybe they could create CW just for new players so that they can play with people of similar lvl... It is not perfect but would at least let new player enjoy the game.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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Thanks! I greatly appreciate the info and the view into the system/concepts.

Nice.

 

P.S:  T. Blair . . . "Blixtev"?


“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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18 hours ago, thomasblair said:

The first few campaigns are going to be rough no doubt as people gain the initial skills required to do anything. Going from 0 to full speed economy doesn't happen overnight. That however is part of the fun for many people who enjoy walking uphill in the snow with no shoes.
 

Three legs to the stool, three ways to play. 
Screw gatherers, YOU GET NOTHING!

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2 hours ago, Vectious said:

You are disagreeing with me by comparing apples to washing machines,

There is a curve that the game develops for the character to progress. Game spend thousands if not  hundred of thousands of hours to develop the proper curve for players as they level up so they are neither stagnant with to difficult of a challenge or bored with to easy of an challenge. These games are designed with careful content gating that opens up as you progress. You dont, from level one as you say, run in to level 60 monsters.

 

There is nothing in crowfall that will do this. You will literally enter the game as a 'level one' to the full experience of the game. And be able to do literally nothing but be crushed by other players both economically, financially, physically(well virtually), and more than likely mentally. You dont go up against 'like same' conditions as in other MMO's. For months.

I think the mitigating factor will be the campaign bands.  I am definitely guilty of the "Dregs or bust" attitude, because I think that is where the most fun will be had.  I also suspect it will be unforgiving, and this is OK!

The outer campaign bands, God's Reach, etc will be much more accommodating for newer players:

1) Automatic Teammates: You can still join a guild, roll with friends, etc., but by default there will be people on your team and it will be in their best interests to help you along.

2) Lower Resource Quality: Who cares if your untrained character, using the passives recently discussed to get some basic skills, can only harvest White/Green ores.  If the max quality is blue, white & green quality tools/weapons will get you pretty far.

3) Reduced penalty for death and losing the campaign: Ok, so maybe you still get facerolled in the campaign, die a lot and your side ends up losing.  No biggie - you still get a chunk of your horde, don't lose gear when you die (to an extent) and you come away from the campaign with something to show for it.

I think dregs will definitely be a harsh place for the new player, but not everyone has to play dregs. 

Edited by Izalea

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