kris

2 Different Tank Roles? (Templar Vs Knight)

Recommended Posts

That is most certainly a Champion (And by the looks of his size, he might belong to a giant race).  I really should be paying attention to these concept art banners (The Devs did say they all have actual gameplay meaning).

 

I'm going to guess that Champions are melee DPS.

 

The giant is a good guess, I totaly agree with that idea :)

Further more, we can see on this screenshot a "Giant's Blood" Runes :D

https://media.crowfall.com/Crowfall_CharacterCreate_runes.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is most certainly a Champion (And by the looks of his size, he might belong to a giant race).  I really should be paying attention to these concept art banners (The Devs did say they all have actual gameplay meaning).

 

I'm going to guess that Champions are melee DPS.

 

Yeah, he looks like DPS with huge physical stature and poor armor, which is really unnecessary given the object of strategy in the game, but with promotion classes it will be interesting to see Archetypes combine features of various classes. He basically looks like a can opener to me XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is most certainly a Champion (And by the looks of his size, he might belong to a giant race).  I really should be paying attention to these concept art banners (The Devs did say they all have actual gameplay meaning).

 

I'm going to guess that Champions are melee DPS.

I'm guessing that the higher a toon's strength, the bigger that toon is (Dwarves probably excepted). Giant's blood Rune probably raises strength, and maybe there are other effects too. 

I bet you're right, melee strength-based DPS.

Edited by chancellor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking for something on the lines of a paladin with good healing abilities with high armor and maybe not to much hp since the healing abilities will make up for that.

I don't believe that the Templar will have healing abilities, at least not much healing power. I could possibly see a small healing over time to be a little bit more tanky.

 

Theyes have already stated they aren't really be doing healing in this game. If there is any types of healing I don't think it will be powerful at all.

 

I still feel the Templar will have some type of shield. Arkon's Protection or something. I would like to see some type of shield that would also do damage to nearby enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing that the higher a toon's strength, the bigger that toon is (Dwarves probably excepted). Giant's blood Rune probably raises strength, and maybe there are other effects too. 

I bet you're right, melee strength-based DPS.

 

Unfortunately, since the strenght is a basic attribute, I think that if the size would increases with the strenght, all warriors-type and strength-base archetypes would be giants in endgame :D

 

On the other hand, I guess Giant's Blood Rune would effectively increase the size, even for the Stoneborn.

We will need more informations, as the effects and the purpose of this Rune to be sure :)

 

IMO that would be great if Stoneborn could increase their size, or course not for all Archetypes, but chosing wisely our Runes in relation with the Class.

As their name is not "Dwarf", but in fact "Stoneborn", nothing force them to have a tiny size, and forbid them to get a "mountain"-stone size :)

Edited by shmilbick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing that the higher a toon's strength, the bigger that toon is (Dwarves probably excepted). Giant's blood Rune probably raises strength, and maybe there are other effects too.

I bet you're right, melee strength-based DPS.

I don't think this is the cause because it would force you to have a bigger character if you wanted high strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No but honestly, why characters would grow their size just by adding strenght ? Even to a limited size...

 

If the Champion is big, I bet that is due to a particularity. Like whole different race, like a Giant race.

We also see in the Runes there is Demonic Blood. Chosing this Rune the character will certainly be something demonic (and the Frostweaver is obviously something like a Dark-Elf).

After saying we could increase our size with strenght, will you say we could increase our demonic side with Intellect ?

 

Giants usualy look alike humans, so why look for an absurd raison, binding strenght and size, when we see that there a Giant's Blood Rune ?

 

That said, Giant's Blood Rune will add an advantage, like great size and strenght. Like the Centaurs who have basically a Strenght boost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No but honestly, why characters would grow their size just by adding strenght ? Even to a limited size...

 

If the Champion is big, I bet that is due to a particularity. Like whole different race, like a Giant race.

We also see in the Runes there is Demonic Blood. Chosing this Rune the character will certainly be something demonic (and the Frostweaver is obviously something like a Dark-Elf).

After saying we could increase our size with strenght, will you say we could increase our demonic side with Intellect ?

 

Giants usualy look alike humans, so why look for an absurd raison, binding strenght and size, when we see that there a Giant's Blood Rune ?

 

That said, Giant's Blood Rune will add an advantage, like great size and strenght. Like the Centaurs who have basically a Strenght boost.

I agree. I think the giant size is for the Archetype. I am not sure if the Gaint's Blood would change size of the character and not just the strength. I would think it would just give a strength bonus and not change appearance. I think the Frostweaver is just blue because of their lore and not an attribute a player can choose at character creation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I think the giant size is for the Archetype. I am not sure if the Gaint's Blood would change size of the character and not just the strength. I would think it would just give a strength bonus and not change appearance. I think the Frostweaver is just blue because of their lore and not an attribute a player can choose at character creation.

Most likely, though it would be awesome if they made your character build a more indicative part of you appearance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, since the strenght is a basic attribute, I think that if the size would increases with the strenght, all warriors-type and strength-base archetypes would be giants in endgame :D

 

On the other hand, I guess Giant's Blood Rune would effectively increase the size, even for the Stoneborn.

We will need more informations, as the effects and the purpose of this Rune to be sure :)

 

IMO that would be great if Stoneborn could increase their size, or course not for all Archetypes, but chosing wisely our Runes in relation with the Class.

As their name is not "Dwarf", but in fact "Stoneborn", nothing force them to have a tiny size, and forbid them to get a "mountain"-stone size :)

I'll jump right out again and speculate that all Stoneborn are pureblood brothers (sisters?). No Giant or Demonic blood possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll jump right out again and speculate that all Stoneborn are pureblood brothers (sisters?). No Giant or Demonic blood possible.

 

It would really fun if all Archetypes had different runes to choose from (To reflect the lore and facilitate balance).  I'll be one of the advocates for restricted rune choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll jump right out again and speculate that all Stoneborn are pureblood brothers (sisters?). No Giant or Demonic blood possible.

 

Well, demonic allegiance can be a CHOICE, not only a fatality or a birth issue. Anyone could make a pact with the devil, whatever his race.

The pureblood are often the targets of demonic forces, they corrupt it and destroy it.

 

About the Giant, Stoneborn should not have necessarily a dwarf size. Developpers could have changed their name Dwarf to Stoneborn, to open up new possibilities of Crowfall.

With the fact that they are made of stone (JToddColeman even defined them as golems) nothing forces a Stoneborn to be small, and could have the size of a BIG Stone, or an usual golem :)

 

Runes are basically magic, hypothetically a Rune will have 1 or 2 features.

As we have Creation Points, nothing would prevent us to play god the time we create our character, and decide to give Giant or Demonic blood to a Stoneborn...

That's the purpose of this system, we have ~30 Creations Points, we choose whatever we want in the Runes and Attributes :)

 

The important point is to choose Runes related with the role we expect for our archetype...

If I give Demonic Blood to a Support class like Forgemaster, I guess that wouldn't be good.

But, IF, and only if, the Giant's Blood gives a strenght boost, then I hope we'll be able to give it to the Forgemaster who is one of the Archetypes with the most Strenght.

Edited by shmilbick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, demonic allegiance can be a CHOICE, not only a fatality or a birth issue. Anyone could make a pact with the devil, whatever his race.

The pureblood are often the targets of demonic forces, they corrupt it and destroy it.

 

About the Giant, Stoneborn should not have necessarily a dwarf size. Developpers could have changed their name Dwarf to Stoneborn, to open up new possibilities of Crowfall.

With the fact that they are made of stone (JToddColeman even defined them as golems) nothing forces a Stoneborn to be small, and could have the size of a BIG Stone, or an usual golem :)

 

Runes are basically magic, hypothetically a Rune will have 1 or 2 features.

As we have Creation Points, nothing would prevent us to play god the time we create our character, and decide to give Giant or Demonic blood to a Stoneborn...

That's the purpose of this system, we have ~30 Creations Points, we choose whatever we want in the Runes and Attributes :)

 

The important point is to choose Runes related with the role we expect for our archetype...

If I give Demonic Blood to a Support class like Forgemaster, I guess that wouldn't be good.

But, IF, and only if, the Giant's Blood gives a strenght boost, then I hope we'll be able to give it to the Forgemaster who is one of the Archetypes with the most Strength.

I suspect that the Giant's Blood Rune refers to heredity instead of a vial of blood or drinking the blood in some ritual, but we'll see in a week.

Even if you can't buy Giant's Blood Rune, you should be able to buy stats up a bit with character creation points. And by the time we see The whole game, you may want to spend them on something else entirely!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious what their definition of a tank in a pvp game will be.

 

This, tanks lately in MMO's seem to be a PVE arch not a PvP arch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd guess that tanks in Crowfall are high strength characters that lead the charge, form the front line, and attack the first thing that moves in front of them.  High health pools allow them to start fights while not dying at the beginning.

 

The tank's defensive capability will mostly come from character collision, the only thing they need now are tools for making cool looking formations.  Hard CC will no longer be a necessity for tanking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd guess that tanks in Crowfall are high strength characters that lead the charge, form the front line, and attack the first thing that moves in front of them.  High health pools allow them to start fights while not dying at the beginning.

 

The tank's defensive capability will mostly come from character collision, the only thing they need now are tools for making cool looking formations.  Hard CC will no longer be a necessity for tanking.

 

I hope to god that's true, I dont even want most tanks to be the primary defending role, they'd be great at it, but I really really really want Hoplite lines to be an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In PvP and PvE the designation of "tanks, healers and dps" work inherently by a different basis. In PvE a tank is a dominant character than can control the decisions of mindless & scripted mobs, and make them suboptimal by forcing those NPCs to attack suboptimal targets.

 

In PvP you've to simply gauge the need for defensive attributes against the opponents target prioritization as well as exposure to damage.

 

In a game with character collision tanks can be frontline units due to being the first taking a hit from ranged attacks as well as controlling the decisions of the actual player characters by blocking their way. However, blocking a player's way as a method is not reliable in a similar fashion as it is to control the NPCs with mechanics intended for that purpose.

 

The term "DPS" itself refers to a partially flawed idea. First of all the assumption is that you can simply measure all damage as a unit "Damage per Second". However that's only possible if the game mechanics are so simple that you can calculate a damage per second value. In a more complex environment there are no definite damage per second values and which character does most damage can depend entirely on what the character is attacking. Also the "DPS" charater or the "Glass cannon" in PvP is naturally a priority target. Which means the correct decision can be to build them as "tanks", but then they're no longer actual DPS characters. Players making decisions are not going to decide to attack the most armoured hunk of meat first of possible, but instead optimize towards taking out the weakest characters that have the biggest impact over time on the position.

 

However coordinating multiple groups simultaneously may change the setup. This way you can have a traditional binding force, that engages the opponents and is built to be survivable. And then you've the specialized force that's supposed to deliver a bigger impact to the opponents when they're distracted by the binding force, I think a concept something along this lines goes way back to SunTzu. So you can actually get the Dps/Healer/Tank layout based off group structures in PvP, but not so much in smaller scale, and it's not exactly the same thing. If you can separate the healers from the binding force, then it cant get close to it, but given that many abilities are "party based" in PvP games, you actually have to have the healers in the tanking group. And as the healers are often the priority targets, those should be the most tankish characters (as opposed to melee warriors). Whether or not this kind of layout works is still complicated. You can get groups of mages as the DPS, groups of meat with heavily armoured defensive support characters as the Tanking group. And also it relies on the idea that the tank group can hinder the opponents from attacking the casters as soon as possible.

 

The above are primarily my opinions and maybe flawed. Here's also a related and more theoretical concept in game theory (Which I've no particular expertise in): Nash equilibrium

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ever played Final Fantasy 14, the Templar seems to be a Warrior while the Knight is a Paladin.

 

Knight uses a shield and has greater defense.  In a game without spam healers, this isn't an issue, but it comes at the cost of less threat generation... namely he's not much of a threat because his damage comes from a one-hander and he has mostly defensive cooldowns.

 

Templar uses a two-hander and has greater offense.  He's a bit squishier than the Knight and struggles to survive as a tank, but threat/aggro is not a problem for him.  Ignore this guy and you will regret it.  In PVP he has good damage output while in PVE the mobs hate his guts.

 

 

So I think the Knight will be more about protecting allies or controlling enemies through support threat generation while the Templar will focus on attacking enemies and threaten them through damage or debuffs.  PVPers will be able to focus fire the Templar easier to remove him from play while the Knight will need to controlled differently or prove to be a nuisance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.