Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Poll: Additional General Skill Trains for VIP Membership


Additional General Skill Trains for VIP  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you FOR or AGAINST VIP granting additional General Skill Trains?

    • I am IN FAVOR of VIP granting additional general skill trains
    • I am AGAINST VIP granting additional general skill trains


Recommended Posts

On 5/3/2017 at 2:05 PM, yoink said:

I also wouldnt play if vip gave in game power, I dont want that. Im just saying i want to pay a vip/sub fee. I want to see the game supported. I just need it to offer something to ME. and im not sure what that is short of a mandatory sub

Would being able to join more then one campaign if you have VIP offer something to you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 313
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

While we are always open to feedback and ideas, game development isn't a democracy so creating polls may not be the best way to communicate changes you wish to see.  That being said, I am going t

To be clear, both the dev forum thread and this poll thread became a cesspool largely thanks to YOU.  There's nothing wrong with my poll - it was clear and impartial. 

This conversation is devolving in to a "What is P2W" argument faster than the other thread.... The line for P2W is different for everyone.  So instead of one person saying "it's p2w", then the next gu

1 hour ago, Tark said:

Would being able to join more then one campaign if you have VIP offer something to you?

If I only had one account. But even if limited to one campaign per account unless vip, it is still better to just have multiple accounts. $15 x 12mo = $180 for a year of vip. Or I could just have 4 additional accounts with no monthly sub AND I get to train 5 universal skills and 5 AT, not 1 and 3.

I have the option to bring 5 accounts into a campaign if I choose. 5 UT and AT in one campaign.

Lets not make vip p2w. We can agree on that. But as I type this it really seems like having alt accounts is a much worse form of p2w. All because of passive training.

And it gets even better down the line. In one year time I have 5 accounts with a year training into 5 universal skills and 5 AT vs just 1 year in 1 universal skill and 3 ATs. Lets say I quit the game, I now have 5 trained since day 1 accounts to sell vs 1.

Edited by yoink
Keep thinking of reasons why alt acct is better than vip

aeei5jG.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted YES, as a quality of life improvement.

At the moment, it is cheaper for me to buy the game twice, so I can have an alt account for all my crafting.

I will not only be able to be able to raise both combat and crafting more efficiently, but also faster, and for a cheaper cost than VIP.

I think VIP should offer the possibility to train multiple general tree. I don't see the problem of VIP being able to simultaneously increase combat, crafting and exploration at the same time.  it's no different than having multiple accounts.
In their current implementation, training a skill from each main general tree does not offer faster power gains, merely more options to play, which is identical to having multiple accounts.
The only notable exception are the vessel skills inside the exploration tree, but the power gains from that are relatively low and will be completely negligible just a few month after release.

Also, while I feel VIP will never equal the usefulness of having 4-8 additional accounts for the same price, I believe VIP should offer better quality of life, such as the ability to schedule skill training for the duration of your VIP subscription, so you never miss a second of it, and API access to switch skills from the website or a companion app.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Being able to train 3 general would mean that the same 10 people harvesting would be the same 10 to defend while harvesting.  Without it the person has to choose between the three. In Eve Online we had 10 that would mine ore while 10 were running security. The security players were watching local while killing NPCs in other asteroid belts.

Problem with VIP is the same as a year ago, where the cost of 1 year is much more than the cost of multiple accounts. I'm a huge fan of GGG's Path of Exile shop ethics. Most everything is cosmetic or service. I have no problem dumping money toward them because of this. Can VIP be eliminated? Could VIP be changed to monthly cash shop credits or similar. I've had no problem buying Overwatch and buying their Loot Boxes (even though I hate RNG boxes). 

Only way I know to limit multi-accounts is to attach a hardware ID to the account. This would limit 1 account per PC but would hurt people that travel, using a laptop and desktop and would hurt those that share a PC. It would suck to have to submit a ticket to change hardware. Blizzard had Overwatch setup with hardware IDs and some of the 1500 banned people couldn't get a second purchased copy to work.

Some have mentioned just forcing the game to be a subscription, however, in the last 10 years how many subscription based games were forced to switch to f2p or hybrid in some way? Wildstar, ESO, SWTOR and others have had to change just to survive.

One problem I can see with the skills is the time to train. In Eve Online the rank 1 and rank 2 skill leveled quickly, however, in CF the basic skills start at 3 days to train.  I really feel these times need to change. I know, I know, it's pre-alpha. I believe Tyrant mentioned over 18 years of skill training and they weren't done adding. This means that in 7 years, no one would catch up and ACE would have to decrease skill time on new accounts, much like it happened in Eve Online.

 

Changing VIP

  • Reduced taxes on EK plots
  • Granted some store balance for purchases
  • Exclusive store cosmetic options
    • I feel that ACE should be pushing for EK cosmetic as their primary income source. People love their housing.
    • Player uniqueness is also pretty high on peoples list.
  • Priority access
  • Early access to new archtype (I believe they're still doing this)
  • Etc.

I'm sure there are other things that could work for VIP.

 

People have touched on p2w and its definition varies as much as the stars in the sky. In reality, it's possible to buy VIP and trade it for anything in game, be it gear, land, people, resources, etc. I'm sure some guild will be offered year's worth of VIP for their castle location. Others will be offered VIP to join their guild/alliance/merc. Others will trade VIP for resources or labor. Don't underestimate 'whales' spending to get what they want, it happened in Archeage on the server my guild played on.

At least we'll be able to kill the bots and gold spammers in most of the campaigns, assuming we can kill them before they teleport or fly away. I'm not trying to be negative about this paragraph but allowing full trade of items will catch the eyes of the RMT Industry.

etDenA9.png
Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like it. I voted and pool disappeared. Where can I see results?

I see it now. Huh, why haven't I seen it before?

Edited by ChosenofCastle
EDIT

Mercenary guild is recruiting. Send me a message if you are interested.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya know, I was actually for voting yes just a half a day or so ago but now, after reading some pretty insightful posts on this forum, I think I want to see the Dev's vision play out. I vote NO.

Eat or be eaten

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 5:48 AM, jetah said:

Problem with VIP is the same as a year ago, where the cost of 1 year is much more than the cost of multiple accounts. I'm a huge fan of GGG's Path of Exile shop ethics. Most everything is cosmetic or service. I have no problem dumping money toward them because of this. Can VIP be eliminated? Could VIP be changed to monthly cash shop credits or similar. I've had no problem buying Overwatch and buying their Loot Boxes (even though I hate RNG boxes). 

 

Some have mentioned just forcing the game to be a subscription, however, in the last 10 years how many subscription based games were forced to switch to f2p or hybrid in some way? Wildstar, ESO, SWTOR and others have had to change just to survive.

 

People have touched on p2w and its definition varies as much as the stars in the sky. In reality, it's possible to buy VIP and trade it for anything in game, be it gear, land, people, resources, etc. I'm sure some guild will be offered year's worth of VIP for their castle location. Others will be offered VIP to join their guild/alliance/merc. Others will trade VIP for resources or labor. Don't underestimate 'whales' spending to get what they want, it happened in Archeage on the server my guild played on.

 

I just hope they don't do what TSW did. I bought the lifetime subscription of that game before release, only to be screwed less than a year later, when they went free to play. So they instead gave me cash shop points each month that I had to spend within a certain amount of time. AND then would not give me the points, unless I logged in that month. SO basically they sold me a lie for $300 and then pretended like they did me a favor by converting it to cash shop points. I personally feel like they had planned to do it all along but whatever, I'll never support Funcom monetarily again. Now, I'm sure ArtCraft wouldn't use VIP as a selling tool and then pull the rug out from under me, but I'd be lieing if I said I wasn't worried about it because now I've put even more money up, prior to launch.

Eat or be eaten

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Omen said:

I just hope they don't do what TSW did. I bought the lifetime subscription of that game before release, only to be screwed less than a year later, when they went free to play. So they instead gave me cash shop points each month that I had to spend within a certain amount of time. AND then would not give me the points, unless I logged in that month. SO basically they sold me a lie for $300 and then pretended like they did me a favor by converting it to cash shop points. I personally feel like they had planned to do it all along but whatever, I'll never support Funcom monetarily again. Now, I'm sure ArtCraft wouldn't use VIP as a selling tool and then pull the rug out from under me, but I'd be lieing if I said I wasn't worried about it because now I've put even more money up, prior to launch.

I doubt companies do that. I believe companies realize what's happening to their game and then take measures to 'fix' it. My friend purchased a lifetime pass for the Star Trek online game, when PWE took over it, they changed it to a f2p system with rng boxes.

I see VIP as a voucher that should be used to buy shop stuff or game time.  I know Eve Online has used PLEX for a long time, I've played 12 years, and it was introduced back then. And they've just now changed how PLEX works, but you can buy items from the shop or game time. Converting VIP to store cash is something I can see CF doing and it allows someone to farm for it.

etDenA9.png
Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, making P2W decisions are not worth it in the long term.

Crowfall's model is having VIP accounts instead of a monthly subscription, which is awesome if and only if the VIP is not P2W, just helpful and time saving, like ACE always puts it.

“War is mass murder, conscription is slavery and taxation is robbery.” ― Murray N. Rothbard
alGxc9C.png
✣Junte-se a nós✣

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how there is so much confusion about what is and what is not pay-to-win. Adding extra general skills for VIP players is virtually the only way ACE could make this game pay-to-win, because pay-to-win is really a very simple concept. If someone can pay money for a bonus that gives them more in-game power than someone without that bonus, that is pay-to-win. It doesn't matter if you can get that bonus from people who bought it without paying your own money - the only way that bonus enters the game is through someone paying money to ACE. Someone is paying them for every month of VIP anyone gets, and each month of VIP adds permanent extra power to whoever uses it. Permanent extra power that someone without VIP does not have.

It is buying more skills, pure and simple. When archetypes were in the game, multiple simultaneous archetype training was basically extra character slots. Extra general skill training is just paying money to make your character better than an otherwise identical version of your character that isn't on a VIP account.

Other VIP benefits I would be opposed to include doubled skill training speed for VIPs, doubled harvesting yield for VIPs, guaranteed crafting success for VIPs, etc etc etc.

Things I would not be opposed to include, say, double yield on harvested knotwood, slag, and cobblestone for VIPs, or a 10% chance to recover double from failed crafting attempts, or additional skill training in literally anything BUT general skills. Measurable advantages are fine, but not advantages that make an individual character stronger than their clone on a non-VIP account would be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, goose said:

I don't see how there is so much confusion about what is and what is not pay-to-win. Adding extra general skills for VIP players is virtually the only way ACE could make this game pay-to-win, because pay-to-win is really a very simple concept. If someone can pay money for a bonus that gives them more in-game power than someone without that bonus, that is pay-to-win. It doesn't matter if you can get that bonus from people who bought it without paying your own money - the only way that bonus enters the game is through someone paying money to ACE. Someone is paying them for every month of VIP anyone gets, and each month of VIP adds permanent extra power to whoever uses it. Permanent extra power that someone without VIP does not have.

It is buying more skills, pure and simple. When archetypes were in the game, multiple simultaneous archetype training was basically extra character slots. Extra general skill training is just paying money to make your character better than an otherwise identical version of your character that isn't on a VIP account.

Other VIP benefits I would be opposed to include doubled skill training speed for VIPs, doubled harvesting yield for VIPs, guaranteed crafting success for VIPs, etc etc etc.

Things I would not be opposed to include, say, double yield on harvested knotwood, slag, and cobblestone for VIPs, or a 10% chance to recover double from failed crafting attempts, or additional skill training in literally anything BUT general skills. Measurable advantages are fine, but not advantages that make an individual character stronger than their clone on a non-VIP account would be.

A lot of the confusion is when people have their own personal agendas for it.

Someone that wants multiple general trains, because it is more convenient to them, will often times magically not consider multiple general trains p2w.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my point of view: 

I can buy 3 accounts, one for fight, one for harvest and one for craft.

Roughly, it takes 6 month to max a craft, and a year and half to max a harvest. It takes a year for an archetype.

 

2 years down the road, I now have one guy that fully know 6 crafts, one guy who can harvest most resources at a decent level, and a fighting account with 2 full archetypes all basic fighting and some harvesting/craft. And the other two also have 4 archetypes fully developed minutes some general fighting skill.

the VIP guy after 2 years has 6 archetypes fully developed, all fighting and maybe some craft.

Sounds fair, right? Buuut... the 3 accounts costed 150$, and the VIP paid 410$ !!!

(50$ per game, 180$ vip cost a year.)

 

Does that still sounds fair to you? If you had spend that money on multi-accounts instead of VIP, after 2 years and 8 accounts, you could have every skill, every craft, every harvest and every archetypes fully developed.

Here's the problems I think needs to be addressed:

- VIP is hardly worth it currently. And after a year or two, you'll have most archetypes making it even less interesting to maintain.

- multi accounts is Pay2Win because of the current auto training. Something need to change.

- a crafter can raise multiple archetypes, but cannot raise crafting and harvesting. (I think that's a bit silly, some people want a pure economic role)

 

but my biggest gripe with that whole system is that I like to vary my role in a game. It's all about picking different gameplay for fun. I want to be a tank, then sometimes a dps, or a support, or a harvester, or a crafter. To me they are all equal roles to fill. But that game and the VIP seems to only encourage diversity in combat roles.

I wish we could break that limit between UT and AT and reorganise all that to be different roles. So regular people can train 2 roles, and VIP can train 4-6.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to throw in my two cents here - 

My initial reaction was hell no, but as i thought about it a bit more I am actually strongly for this IF it is compensated with deeper and more varied trees. The biggest problem is that i am not a fan of the fact that entire parts of the game will be completely removed from you and there is absolutely no way to get by that without using alts or spending a very large amount of time in the game. 

I am a strong believer that you need to recognize what it is you are attempting to implement at a higher level and discuss whether the mechanics actually empower and push towards that goal. I understand you want prevent people from being self reliant, which is a huge attraction factor of this game for me. On the flip side, I am strongly against the fact that entire portions of the game will potentially be completely unachievable within any reasonable time without alt accounts in the current implementation. I am also against HAVING to have alt accounts to be competitive in this game. For a matter of fact, that acts in a complete contradiction to the stated goal of preventing the creation of player islands because it will still happen, however it will just be a pain in the ass for average who won't want to manage that to keep up. 

Putting it behind a pay wall will at least help reduce the frequency of alt accounts, but i definitely think this is a potential HUGE issue for this game as is. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...