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srathor

Just how many ways is the Gatherer screwed.

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9 minutes ago, durenthal said:

 

It was fun gathering and crafting without the spirit bank. And this was before vessels too, so everyone had 'alt mules' parked on hills etc. No longer possible on a single account, but another alt account 'alternative feature'...

Would be fun if they removed or, in the absense of that, tied current spirit bank use only to central keep greathalls (and you can only craft non basic goods there too to simulate crafting stations).

Throw some balista pads on the keep walls

That would spice up a weekend or two....

Edited by Tinnis

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On 5/4/2017 at 8:23 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

Ok so you are assuming they are going to be loot pinatas, not that they actually are loot pinatas.  Of course you have no actual evidence of them being loot pinatas aside from the concept that a solo harvester is at a disadvantage in combat, which is to be expected, and they can solve that problem through social elements. 

I'm not quite sure what the problem is here, you want a game where solo harvesters aren't in danger?

I'm agreeing with the OP's assessment of the harvesters' risk.

As far as the judgement on whether that level of risk is appropriate or not, I gave no opinion. I'm more of a "learn to deal with things the way they are" kind of player. When I know the game better I may have an opinion on that..


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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I think I have a mathematical approach to proving that Alt-Gatherers aren't really helping an organization. Should go some ways to highlighting why alt accounts aren't going to solve an organizations need to recruit these types of players (or force combat-players to branch out).

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Run combat killers out to the gathering areas. Camp them there, Get on Gatherer Alts, go out and start gathering. If you get jumped and killed, log out. Load in combat people, ambush already wounded ambushers. Take their crap and your stolen stuff as well. 

Alt accounts give you flexibility and power. Sadly.

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3 minutes ago, srathor said:

Run combat killers out to the gathering areas. Camp them there, Get on Gatherer Alts, go out and start gathering. If you get jumped and killed, log out. Load in combat people, ambush already wounded ambushers. Take their crap and your stolen stuff as well. 

Alt accounts give you flexibility and power. Sadly.

Knowing of this tactic you really think they would stick around long enough for you to log in your alts? Just doesn't seem very effective or efficient at all. Having gatherers and combat defenders go out at the same time will likely prove the FAR more effective and used tactic.

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32 minutes ago, srathor said:

Run combat killers out to the gathering areas. Camp them there, Get on Gatherer Alts, go out and start gathering. If you get jumped and killed, log out. Load in combat people, ambush already wounded ambushers. Take their crap and your stolen stuff as well. 

Alt accounts give you flexibility and power. Sadly.

Simple fix.

Login (after 60 seconds to deal with network interruptions) always start you at temple or other save point building, never in the field. (EDIT: oh, and all "resource" items drop on logout, to prevent using this as a way to haul for free.)

Or

On login you start with a 15-30 second immobility

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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5 minutes ago, pang said:

Knowing of this tactic you really think they would stick around long enough for you to log in your alts? Just doesn't seem very effective or efficient at all. Having gatherers and combat defenders go out at the same time will likely prove the FAR more effective and used tactic.

Can you imagine someone just logging in back and forth running characters to the next hot harvesting point to prep for their harvester coming in to whack a few nodes?


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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2 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Can you imagine someone just logging in back and forth running characters to the next hot harvesting point to prep for their harvester coming in to whack a few nodes?

Sure, but Like I said it likely won't be anywhere as efficient or effective as running mixed groups of both gatherers and combat players. That mixed group will beat alt hoppers to nodes and be able to react more efficiently by being able to stay online.

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2 minutes ago, pang said:

Sure, but Like I said it likely won't be anywhere as efficient or effective as running mixed groups of both gatherers and combat players. That mixed group will beat alt hoppers to nodes and be able to react more efficiently by being able to stay online.

Sorry, I meant can you imagine how absurd and tedious it would be for minimal benefit?


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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9 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Sorry, I meant can you imagine how absurd and tedious it would be for minimal benefit?

Right, its why I don't think alt hoping will really be a thing that gives more power. To a solo player it gives some flexibility for sure but again the most effective and effeicnt way to gather will be mixed groups of different players all staying together and online.

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On 5/10/2017 at 2:34 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

Simple fix.

Login (after 60 seconds to deal with network interruptions) always start you at temple or other save point building, never in the field. (EDIT: oh, and all "resource" items drop on logout, to prevent using this as a way to haul for free.)

Or

On login you start with a 15-30 second immobility

Are you saying you don't now?

Time to upgrade my computer!


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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On 10/5/2017 at 8:28 PM, srathor said:

Run combat killers out to the gathering areas. Camp them there, Get on Gatherer Alts, go out and start gathering. If you get jumped and killed, log out. Load in combat people, ambush already wounded ambushers. Take their crap and your stolen stuff as well. 

Alt accounts give you flexibility and power. Sadly.

well currently it takes 20 second to logout even, which well if tehre more than 1-2 ppl coming to kill your little solo gathering *** should be enough for them to outright kill you before you even can log out, let alone log in on your combat acc  (and most likely, though I haven't tested, alt+f4 wont skip that your character would still sit in the world for at least those 20 seconds still before timing out)

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Here's what srathor is missing:

I spent the morning punching rocks to for building a new advanced weapon.

As always

  1. I used my crafter
  2. I equipped Narsille with some nice quality runetools
  3. I ran with full potions

I came pretty damn close to loosing materials

  • Yes, I ended up with a bunch of white mats however
  • If you calculate the number of blues that I need to replace my tools and compare this to my haul

I bared turned a profit...

In contrast, had I spent the same amount of time using an account specialized in gathering

  1. I would have been able to burn through nodes much more quickly (better damage to nodes)
  2. My tools would have generated many more raw mats before they broke (better damage to nodes)
  3. If I have specializing in ore or some such, I get even larger bonuses

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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Hahaha. Yep I am missing something.

Start training gathering. you suck right now at everything. Log on every few days to advance said training. Come back in 5 months. You still suck at everything. You just suck slightly less at 1 type of something. Mind, you still suck at it, just a bit less. 

6 types of ore. (Counting slag) 6 types of tree Counting knotwood, 6 types of stone counting cobbles. What will you be good at in 6 months training.

Go ahead.
Pick 1.
But sorry, You will still suck at it. 

Potions are a huge disservice to the players. They have totally masked just how horrible the crafting and gathering systems are broken by the passive skills system. 

The only reason combat is not as broken as the rest is because combat is given to you. Just like the pots give you skill in every single tree at once. 

Oh and for the "hard core" lets see you have combat built in the same mindset as crafting and gathering.
Take a year to train so you can just fight confessors. Otherwise you have a 90% miss rate and do 90% less damage. - Decent gathering example

Crafting. Hmm. Every time you press a button to attack Your weapon can break. Just snap in half. But don't worry it is only a 5% chance. That happens in strings of 5 sometimes.. Hmm don't have that bug fixed yet. Maybe next pass. 

Hardcore! custard yeah!

 
 

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I think Srathor's problem is he thinks a gatherer should become an expert at mining all types of ore in relatively short order. I see it the opposite. You should specialize in mining ore of the type that gives your parent organization (guild or whatever Srathor's in), the bonuses it's looking for.

I don't see a problem here. You need to have a plan when entering into Crowfall. Anyone expecting to be good at everything within the first month is very delusional. I fully expect a whole lot of cavemen running around clubbing each other for basic materials for the first few months until they realize this. Some will adapt faster than others, and those people will win campaigns.

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On 13-5-2017 at 8:09 PM, scree said:

I think Srathor's problem is he thinks a gatherer should become an expert at mining all types of ore in relatively short order. I see it the opposite. You should specialize in mining ore of the type that gives your parent organization (guild or whatever Srathor's in), the bonuses it's looking for.

I don't see a problem here. You need to have a plan when entering into Crowfall. Anyone expecting to be good at everything within the first month is very delusional. I fully expect a whole lot of cavemen running around clubbing each other for basic materials for the first few months until they realize this. Some will adapt faster than others, and those people will win campaigns.

Exactly this, right now a bunch of things in testing are buffed, basic armor has more mitigation than advanced, because that's what everyone can easily have access to, they get the most feedback from that.

When the game goes live, everyone starts from zero, unless I'm seeing this wrong, you only get the first basic crafting recipes after you've trained the basic crafting skill (and to my understanding, that includes basic runetools) so, the first 3 days the only gatherable thing is wood, and everyone will walk around "naked" punching eachother with their fists.

<rant>

As the game progresses, dedicated harvesters will be better at harvesting than everyone else, they'll still be poorly made socks, but because of the passive skill system, it doesn't matter how much time you sink in the game, your skill level will be the same as everyone else that started at the same time with you.

All skill trees take about the same time, you are forced to pick a specialization, when you as a gatherer after 2 years finish the basic gathering and a specialization tree, all other gatherers will be on the same point, and there are going to be crafters that need you to supply them with your high level materials that you can finally get, because they finally have a use for it, it's a long time, but you just have to accept that that is the time multiplier ACE has put in.

So the first few months, everyone is poorly made socks, combat types will not do "a lot of damage" and will take "the same" damage as everyone else, assuming they balance the classes by launch, putting 2 players with the same character loadout and no skills in a 1v1 would result in one of them winning, by a small margin, through gaming skill or pure luck, or even who did the first hit, you think ACE hasn't thought their balance system through?

Being in numbers is key, being solo will get you nowhere. (Unless you decide to play a merchant type that sits in a safe spot and deals all the goods between the people that are getting in dangerous zones. Hey, that's not a terrible idea...)

Like I said before, everyone starting on launch day, will be at the same page for the rest of the game, people have mentioned this before: you're meant to find a group or guild to work together with, that's the name of the game!

The only way you'll fall behind on the "elite" is by not accepting that you can only be good at one thing (untill you mastered it and have time to do something else, aka after a few years, dedication is required) and being a fool by doubledipping between more than one general skill.

And should you decide to do more than one thing, well, you'll end up with the other players that start later, or be part of a casual guild that doesn't care if their members try to be a 1 man island, and will protect you anyhow, because again, that's the vision of ACE, if you choose gathering, you better socialize with some combat types and promise them part of the loot, or join a guild and promise them all/most the loot (cause, well, that's how a balanced guild system works).

And if that's a vision you can't live with, well, you should go find another mmo to play, one that does allow you to train every skill in a few months time at the same time.

</rant>

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TL;DR:

1. People have said this already, the game is not about solo play, find a group, or a guild.

2. The game will be balanced on launch, this is testing right now

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On 05/05/2017 at 2:51 AM, Jesteric said:

After that you have to look at the social aspect of it. Do most combatants look forward to spending hours babysitting gatherers? Sure you may get some PvP defending them. You might not. You might be avoided for easier prey. Is the time it takes to babysit a gatherer/crafter worth the potential gear exchange? How otherwise might this sort of group play to defend someone else's resources be implemented.

This is my main worry. The easiest solution would be for all the interesting gathering nodes to be well placed for PvP. That should draw all the gatherers and their escorts into a few spots for fun.


David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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3 hours ago, DracoArgentum said:

This is my main worry. The easiest solution would be for all the interesting gathering nodes to be well placed for PvP. That should draw all the gatherers and their escorts into a few spots for fun.

I'm actually fairly sure ACE is already planning that

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