Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Pann

Children of the Sun - Official discussion thread

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

That is what VN said. Limit build freedom. Seems like there was never a problem...

 

That is definitely not the way I read VN's post. And I asked if he were referring to caps. Twice.

Moreover, what VN said he approves of "some versatility might be ok, but not too much" regarding player choice in determining what their character is. It looks to me as if he wants a game of Halo. decide which weapon to grab and we're all set for some ADD fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, KohrAh said:

That doesn't need to be true.  If you look at Eve, large corps create their own meta.  Not because one things is inately better, but because it works better to have consistency through the fleet.  Shadowbane had much the same.  There were no options that were clearly best most of the time.

Adding to your post: Holy spec groups in SB worked because of cohesion and choice of putting together classes.  There were other types of spec groups as well, and again they came down to the types of players wanting to run a type of class or lore based race.  House Avari (sp?) was elves and minos, and was thus limited to classes playable by those races.

The way around making one Meta build that is better than all others, is to give varying interests within the game.  They are giving us POIs to fight over, which will be a different dynamic than fighting on keep walls.  Moving caravans are a different fighting dynamic than stationary POIs.  Each "type" of combat that they can provide means that different builds will shine, and help to limit the "one meta to rule them all".

With everything I have seen to date, I think it has to be something new, and something most of us have not discussed yet.  We know that disciplines are coming, same with campaigns, alpha/beta; with these the question was only "when".  To me this has to be about an "if" announcement.


lUvvzPy.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

If crowfall gives people too many options and too much versatility it will end up with this kind of hardcounter merrygoround, because it is the easiest way to play and the easiest to execute, so most players will gravitate to that because they are desperate to win.  The best players will still be the best, but they will grow bored if the game becomes less about outskilling players and more about playing what is meta.

And if the game doesn't give you enough ways to outskill people and the top quality pvpers grow bored, I assure you the rest of the game will deteriorate too. 

When making a good pvp game you have to cater from the top down.  If you can't secure a high enough skill-ceiling people will leave.

Isn't part of being the "best" understanding the game inside and out and using whatever advantage you can possibly get your hands on? I believe in winning with overwhelming strength (i.e. stacking all the cards in your favor). We used to bull doze groups 3-4x our size in ESO, largely because we had a better understanding of the game and used highly optimized character and group compositions. "Skill" is not a constant; it's criteria change from game to game. If you want a super competitive game that doesn't revolve around character building and counter-meta strategies and where everyone is vanilla; stick to CS, HALO and CoD.

I also strongly disagree that they should be focusing the game at the "best" players. Make the game fun for everyone, don't worry about how "hard" it will be. There are plenty of other games flourishing that have low skill ceilings, and everything is point at crowfall being one of those games. CF does not, and I doubt will ever have a mechanically high skill ceiling.

Edited by Helix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see... Milestone 1 was Hunger Dome, Milestone 2 was Siege Perilous, Milestone 3 was Big World, Milestone 4 was Eternal Kingdoms...

 

Milestone 5 is the Tuesday update, including Combat Disciplines, (at least) Assassin, Environment updates, and whatever the reveal is!


giphy.gif

You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Helix said:

Isn't part of being the "best" understanding the game inside and out and using whatever advantage you can possibly get your hands on? I believe in winning with overwhelming strength (i.e. stacking all the cards in your favor). We used to bull doze groups 3-4x our size in ESO, largely because we had a better understanding of the game and used highly optimized character and group compositions. "Skill" is not a constant; it's criteria change from game to game. If you want a super competitive game that doesn't revolve around character building and counter-meta strategies and where everyone is vanilla; stick to CS, HALO and CoD.

I also strongly disagree that they should be focusing the game at the "best" players. Make the game fun for everyone, don't worry about how "hard" it will be. There are plenty of other games flourishing that have low skill ceilings, and everything is point at crowfall being one of those games. CF does not, and I doubt will ever have a mechanically high skill ceiling.

Exactly.  That's the way games like League of Legends are designed, where balancing is very much focused on what the most skilled players can do.  It mostly works for an esport match based game, but even in League that balancing for the top doesn't translate well down the skill ladder where most of the player base is.  That is not the right approach for MMOs where you're working together and against the same people for months, not 30 minutes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, KohrAh said:

Exactly.  That's the way games like League of Legends are designed, where balancing is very much focused on what the most skilled players can do.  It mostly works for an esport match based game, but even in League that balancing for the top doesn't translate well down the skill ladder where most of the player base is.  That is not the right approach for MMOs where you're working together and against the same people for months, not 30 minutes. 

Yep, if anything VN should be arguing for MORE options for everyone so people have access to a bigger bag of tricks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea i am thinking that now we have class system with 13 races :D. Or archetypes are able to equip the other archetype as a promo class.

 

Edited by Eschatos
typing error

"When you fear death, your sword becomes useless. When you fear nothing, the world fears you".
~ Connacht The Wolf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the centaur legionaries have been killed of due to there annoying speed and the irekei sundancers have been reborn

 

and everything else that's been said about vessels going Race> class> Major discipline x2 > weapon > minor discipline x3

all choices have to be made at creation of vessel ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sneaky_squirrel said:

I am confused.

ACE said they can't afford classes.  These pieces of concept art are a huge misunderstanding.

>:(

Not really. Whatever the reveal is could be from assets that are already done or were already planned to be in the game. Like Disciplines borrowed stuff from Promotions and were made better than planned at first and think most would agree that was a really good move on ACEs part.. Other systems or if this is a new system they are revealing could have been the same way, just reusing or re-organizing things that were already in the plan but making them better then expected.

Besides new classes isn't really what I think or by the guess's so far what anyone really thinks it is, just perhaps like said making what was already planned even better and giving it to us an unexpected way. Now whether that would qualify as "massive" and "we won't believe it" remains to be seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Vectious said:

Alright updating my prediction because of those icons.

Are we all ready? Here it is. 

You now pick your race, then from there you pick a class fighter, mage, rogue, cleric?. Restricted by your race. 

Then you pick your promotion classes, restricted by your race/class. These are the old Archetypes. 

Each race has certain race specific powers, each class has class specific powers and then each promotion class (which use to be archetypes) have their own specific powers.

Then discipline runes. Basicly a lot like shadowbane.

 

So Minotaur>Fighter>Champion

Elf-Thing>Rogue>Duelist OR Elken>Fighter>Duelist

Elken>Fighter>Templar

 

Fighter duelist version wouldn't get stealth but has options for more survivability via his fighter class.

 

AKA Shadowbane character creation 2.0.  That's what I'm ****ing talking about.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

I wouldnt enjoy a game where everyone can do everything. That is why classes exist, you want to be that and do that. If you want to backstab people and be shady you choose an assassin. I dont wanna see healers using stealth. That is why i agree customization should have a limit.

I agree with the statement above, to a certain extent. I'm all for customization, and I'm excited for disciplines and the reveal on Tuesday. I just hope the system will work in such a way as to avoid "do it all" builds that do away with party roles. MMOs with skill systems tend to degenerate into that. I can think of both ESO and TSW as recent examples. ESO in particular is somewhat similar to what Crowfall is shaping up to be (specially if ppl are right about the reveal on race/class restrictions). In pvp a group of 20-30 needed 2-3 dedicated healers but everyone else did the exact same rotations, doesnt matter which class or race they picked. Sure, each class had a couple of unique class defining powers that made it easy to recognize them in the battlefield, but they all played exactly the same for the most part. They all had the same amounts of buffs, heals, dps, CCs, survivability, etc. There were no roles in pvp. Everyone did everything. Personally, I want team comps and roles to matter. 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think having "limits" on customization is a good thing.  I think because there are different interpretations and conceptualizations of what "limits" means leads to arguments where the parties are essentially in agreement, but confounded by miscommunication.

I hated in Darkfall how everyone could be everything, all the time.  Jack of all trades, master of....all trades.  Classes/discs what-have-you, are all "limits"--i.e., limitations on some aspects of character creation, but achieving something desirable in return.  Having players make meaningful character creation decisions (multiple times over for a given character/vessel) is a "limit" in one sense, and also a dynamic and fun character creation mechanism in another sense. 

The two are not mutually exclusive.  


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, cemya said:

 

dfktqf_zps0vdbzanh.png

Our prayers to Nkur'akar have been answered.  Now the Firk'hanim will burn!

2BInWoG.jpg

Return of the Sand Fleas...  (you would think that they would change their pants once in awhile)

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So new 3 faction server(ruleset) rollout, right?  Order, Chaos, Balance...I wasn't going to sift through 7 pages.  Can anyone confirm this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

I agree with the statement above, to a certain extent. I'm all for customization, and I'm excited for disciplines and the reveal on Tuesday. I just hope the system will work in such a way as to avoid "do it all" builds that do away with party roles. MMOs with skill systems tend to degenerate into that. I can think of both ESO and TSW as recent examples. ESO in particular is somewhat similar to what Crowfall is shaping up to be (specially if ppl are right about the reveal on race/class restrictions). In pvp a group of 20-30 needed 2-3 dedicated healers but everyone else did the exact same rotations, doesnt matter which class or race they picked. Sure, each class had a couple of unique class defining powers that made it easy to recognize them in the battlefield, but they all played exactly the same for the most part. They all had the same amounts of buffs, heals, dps, CCs, survivability, etc. There were no roles in pvp. Everyone did everything. Personally, I want team comps and roles to matter. 

Skill / stat "caps", racial restrictions and passive advantages and disadvantages would accomplish this goal.

Choices should be forced, at every turn. For every thing you take, another you should have to give up.

Repeat enough times and you'd have character building I'd be into.

Limiting choice is not the answer. Limiting the ability to make all choices on one character is the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I know is that dwarf art caught my interest (shield is awesome) and this "Children of the Sun" art smacks heavily of Shadowbane (which is good).  So, I am at least optimistic about this new reveal.


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...