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Ready, aim, fire - Official discussion thread

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26 minutes ago, frozenshadow said:

If they are opening up classes to other races. Each race will probably have a set number of classes it can be. It may be that the non-humanoid races are much more limited than the humanoid ones so as to reduce animations.

I for one am excited for my burrowing centaur


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Illegitimi non carborundum

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2 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

I dont think those classes are built on the fact that you are a horse or a deer. I am pretty sure the only lego power that requires you to be a centaur is the rearkick.

The only class that should be race locked in my opinion is the duelist. I believe we all agree that just having these 'lil pests wielding pistols is enough, anymore than that and it will ruin the magic & sword fantasy.

But we don't know what the Elkin has to offer yet - who's to say he hasn't got an Antler Charge or something? If his race skill is something that ties directly into his deer form then yes he would be in the same boat as the centaur

Edited by Badwolfe

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The merchant families of Guinecea were the first to establish trade between worlds. Our artists, the inventors of sculpture and stagecraft. Our duelists, the finest masters to wield a blade. Our engineers, the only to unlock the secret of munitions.

...

She died with her hand upon his head. In that moment, she gave him the Gift: knowledge, intelligence, speech. Not him alone. All of my people.

It is the Gift that you, also, possess. This Gift which was hers, and hers alone, to give.

That's part of the Duelist lore. I wonder, with the new race/class system, does this get retconned or expanded to say "... and then we sold the tech to everyone else, 'cause screw Gaea, she's dead!" 


Hi, I'm moneda.

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Like a most passionate lover of gaming I have been burned by the draw of the mmo world in the past.. Becoming obsessed with a FAQ and memorizing features.. I must admit.. The little inner gamer nerd boy that started playing mmos before EQ was even a thought I was certainly extremely excited for this project before.. Now I have hit official fanboy status. This poorly made socks is going to be crazy. Thank you Crowfall team. You've got me hook line and sinker.


“There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs.” -Jorah Mormont of Bear Island

George R.R. Martin

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TLDR: Lore rant; Tired of the "humans are the devil to nature" narrative cliche, especially when we have Druids in the mix, and why do we have to settle for "the elves are disdainful racist a******s " trope again?

Am I the only one rather sick of the "humans are a plague/fools/inferior" and "disdainful and indignant elves" trope? I was really hoping crowfall would be above using such a tired and overused cliche.

In almost all Elvish lore we've received, it was of Elves engaging in playful, yet mildly threatening dialogue with another that was different from the speaker (always assumed human, but maybe lego, mino, murdeer, or whatnot). And in all of them, the elves seemed to perpetuate a feral gentleness and acceptance, that they were equally playful and stern, even in the twilight of the world. Yet now, we're back to the standard "Elves disdain humans and everything not an elf, blarglallgl." In the FW lore, she approaches what I assume is a human and invites them to "dance" (though unclear what she means, the FW is courteous and almost gently curious in a feral kind of way), in the Second day teaser she is teaching someone unfamiliar with frost and fire (again, courteous, refined, if stern and somewhat exasperated)...this piece of lore is the outlier in that the speaker acts much less benevolently, being insulting and beligerent. Context to what he is doing would help, but at the end of the day, he is being racist towards humans as opposed to the benevolent, yet feral, teachers we've encountered so far in the lore (at least the refined and thinly-veiled threatening tone is still consistent). I always thought that the Crowfall elves were so much more interesting from the typical racism that is SOOOOOOOOO overdone and perpetuated in elven races since warhammer, being more benevolent, if somewhat barbaric, teachers of resisting the hunger with acceptance and unity in CF, while strict and feral in mannerisms. (This more inclusive motif would also really speak to today's social and civil climate, so disappointed in another sense as well.)

Also, as far as humans being a plague: Have we already forgotten the only class trying to heal nature is primarily human (so far, unless this class interchangeability proves true), the Druid? The humie-hate is hardly a unique take, as if the other races are SOOOOOOOOO innocent (Lego being known marauders, raiders, imperialists, and conquistadors, literally embodying raw conquest without any consideration taken), yet, as usual, humans get the hate dumped exclusively on them. The Elves of CF seem to be at a similar stage of civilization as the humans, if not intertwined with their culture given their style of dress, so why're they absolved? Again, the druids, forgemasters, frostweavers, and confessor+templars seem the only ones trying to reach for a solution to stop or slow The Hunger, yet, the fingerpointing rests on the the inferior, weak, stupid, inept, incompetent, would-ball-up-cry-and-wet-themselves-instead-of-survive humans. I get it's supposed to provide commentary on the downfalls of humanity's capitalistic and opportunistic greed, while presenting the more long-lived and refined race as more enlightened and above-brow to typical human foibles by not being human themselves, but i've heard this narrative for the last 20 years of gaming and fantasy, it was real innovative the first 20 times, maybe let's skip the subtext for a more unique and cultural take on the species, hmmmm?

Besides, I thought the Fae were supposed to have the racist/sexist stereotype niche locked up already, with the Confessors being the judgey evangelists/inquisitors.

(Don't get me wrong, not trying to carebear the elves in any sense, but felt their narrative, culture, and mannerisms of being both dignified and primal was so much more interesting than the typical disdain and condescension that is so part and parcel in Elves in the high fantasy genre. CF's take on the gentle condescension from a teacher-student perspective while still being wild and dangerous was unexpectedly refreshing) 

Edited by RKNM

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28 minutes ago, RKNM said:

Am I the only one rather sick of the "humans are a plague/fools/inferior" and "disdainful and indignant elves" trope? I was really hoping crowfall would be above using such a tired and overused cliche.

In almost all Elvish lore we've received, it was of Elves engaging in playful, yet mildly threatening dialogue with another that was different from the speaker (always assumed human, but maybe lego, mino, murdeer, or whatnot). And in all of them, the elves seemed to perpetuate a feral gentleness and acceptance, that they were equally playful and stern, even in the twilight of the world. Yet now, we're back to the standard "Elves disdain humans and everything not an elf, blarglallgl." In the FW lore, she approaches what I assume is a human and invites them to "dance" (though unclear what she means, the FW is courteous and almost gently curious in a feral kind of way), in the Second day teaser she is teaching someone unfamiliar with frost and fire (again, courteous, refined, if stern and somewhat exasperated)...this piece of lore is the outlier in that the speaker acts much less benevolently, being insulting and beligerent. Context to what he is doing would help, but at the end of the day, he is being racist towards humans as opposed to the benevolent, yet feral, teachers we've encountered so far in the lore (at least the refined and thinly-veiled threatening tone is still consistent). I always thought that the Crowfall elves were so much more interesting from the typical racism that is SOOOOOOOOO overdone and perpetuated in elven races since warhammer, being more benevolent, if somewhat barbaric, teachers of resisting the hunger with acceptance and unity in CF, while strict and feral in mannerisms. (This more inclusive motif would also really speak to today's social and civil climate as well, so disappointed in another sense as well.)

Also, as far as humans being a plague: Have we already forgotten the only class trying to heal nature is primarily human (so far, unless this class interchangeability proves true), the Druid? The humie-hate is hardly a unique take, as if the other races are SOOOOOOOOO innocent (Lego being known marauders, raiders, imperialists, and conquistadors, literally embodying raw conquest without any consideration taken), yet, as usual, humans get the hate dumped exclusively on them. The Elves of CF seem to be at a similar stage of civilization as the humans, if not intertwined with their culture given their style of dress. Again, the druids, forgemasters, frostweavers, and confessor+templars seem the only ones trying to reach for a solution to stop or slow The Hunger, yet, the fingerpointing rests on the the inferior, weak, stupid, inept, incompetent, would-ball-up-cry-and-wet-themselves-instead-of-survive humans. I get it's supposed to provide commentary on the downfalls of humanity's capitalistic and opportunistic greed, while presenting the more long-lived and refined race as more enlightened and above-brow to typical human foibles by not being human themselves, but i've heard this narrative for the last 20 years of gaming and fantasy, it was real innovative the first 20 times, maybe let's skip the subtext for a more unique and cultural take on the species, hmmmm?

Besides, I thought the Fae were supposed to have the racist/sexist stereotype niche locked up already

(Don't get me wrong, not trying to carebear the elves in any sense, but felt their narrative, culture, and mannerisms of being both dignified and primal was so much more interesting than the typical disdain and condescension that is so part and parcel in Elves in the high fantasy genre. CF's take on the gentle condescension from a teacher-student perspective while still being wild and dangerous was unexpectedly refreshing) 

This reveal (if our guesses are right) will probably mess with all races lore. So thinking along the lines of the only druid are humans is flawed.

Humans being the scourge of the universe is a constant because it is impossible to imagine humans not being that. Take humans in our world where knowledge is everywhere and humans are at their best ever they still continue being pricks and ruining everything.

If you say to me humans arent being pricks i will say BS.

So i understand your point that it is overused but i still think there is no reason to try to reinvent the wheel.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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The humans must be eradicated and cleansed from the dying worlds. When the Elves have sufficiently brought the Hunger under their control, those worlds will be their playthings. The children of Arkyn and the Tyrant, Valkyn, shall not be permitted to determine the future course of events, for their time horizon is pathetically short. They lack the vision and mastery of the elves.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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26 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Humans being the scourge of the universe is a constant because it is impossible to imagine humans not being that. Take humans in our world where knowledge is everywhere and humans are at their best ever they still continue being pricks and ruining everything.

This tbh. As much as I appreciate innovative spins on old racial cliches, Silmarillion is my definitive take on elves, and I'd much rather have the Silmarillion disdainful almost xenophobic elves than the Lord of the Rings tree hugging gentle hippies that they became. Also humans as a plague is pretty accurate with RL. 

Finally what you want from lore in a game is usually a source of conflict and tension. Elves hating humans (and maybe other races) creates that conflict, elves being chill with everyone does not. Ofc if gameplay isn't in sync with lore (which it probably won't be) then that's all out the window anyway. 


 

 

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47 minutes ago, Rikutatis said:

This tbh. As much as I appreciate innovative spins on old racial cliches, Silmarillion is my definitive take on elves, and I'd much rather have the Silmarillion disdainful almost xenophobic elves than the Lord of the Rings tree hugging gentle hippies that they became. Also humans as a plague is pretty accurate with RL. 

Finally what you want from lore in a game is usually a source of conflict and tension. Elves hating humans (and maybe other races) creates that conflict, elves being chill with everyone does not. Ofc if gameplay isn't in sync with lore (which it probably won't be) then that's all out the window anyway. 

The elves hated the orcs and goblins much more than they ever did the realms of men in Lord of the Rings. 

Whilst certain elements of Elven society had axes to grind with other races (for example the Dwarves), they never really hated any of the other races. They considered themselves superior to others, being the first born - a claim hotly contested by Durin's folk :), but they treated the other races simply with suspicion, mistrust and downright superiority - never really with hate.

Edited by Badwolfe

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1 hour ago, Rikutatis said:

This tbh. As much as I appreciate innovative spins on old racial cliches, Silmarillion is my definitive take on elves, and I'd much rather have the Silmarillion disdainful almost xenophobic elves than the Lord of the Rings tree hugging gentle hippies that they became. Also humans as a plague is pretty accurate with RL. 

Finally what you want from lore in a game is usually a source of conflict and tension. Elves hating humans (and maybe other races) creates that conflict, elves being chill with everyone does not. Ofc if gameplay isn't in sync with lore (which it probably won't be) then that's all out the window anyway. 

Saw CF as more of a contender to break the status quo when it came to gaming and fantasy cliches. Plus if we're looking to marry gameplay and lore, frankly it makes more sense for the races to find conflict along economic and territorial lines, and even religious and faction lines, instead of xenophobia and racism, as these are the same people you'll be trading with, asking to craft from, allying with in game, and whose thralls you'll be enlisting to survive an apocalypse.

Edited by RKNM

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Actually, not really any evidence of racism or xenophobia in the lore from what i've see (some light racism in the centaur and lego lore), everything has been more about doing anything to survive, even at the expense of dignity...up to now though.

Though, the Fae's sexism kind of ruins the streak...

Edited by RKNM

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1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

This reveal (if our guesses are right) will probably mess with all races lore. So thinking along the lines of the only druid are humans is flawed.

Humans being the scourge of the universe is a constant because it is impossible to imagine humans not being that. Take humans in our world where knowledge is everywhere and humans are at their best ever they still continue being pricks and ruining everything.

If you say to me humans arent being pricks i will say BS.

So i understand your point that it is overused but i still think there is no reason to try to reinvent the wheel.

I think that this is true about humans but his commentary was primarily about elves and their traditional relationship with humans and how he wants to see CF continue to branch off from that instead of retreat to it. Humans are as you describe, but I wouldnt expect to see a minotaur commenting on it in the way the elf does in this reveal. He is fearful that the feral edge we've seen from elves so far might be walked back in favor of something more traditional.

I dont know how I feel about this myself, but I dont think how humans are is justification for elves being one way or the other.


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Illegitimi non carborundum

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6 minutes ago, RKNM said:

Actually, not really any evidence of racism or xenophobia in the lore from what i've see (some light racism in the centaur and lego lore), everything has been more about doing anything to survive, even at the expense of dignity...up to now though.

Though, the Fae's sexism kind of ruins the streak...

Maybe the Fae are mad that CF's originally female-only races all became open to both genders and the male-only races didnt :P ?


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Illegitimi non carborundum

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25 minutes ago, Gundam said:

I think that this is true about humans but his commentary was primarily about elves and their traditional relationship with humans and how he wants to see CF continue to branch off from that instead of retreat to it. Humans are as you describe, but I wouldnt expect to see a minotaur commenting on it in the way the elf does in this reveal. He is fearful that the feral edge we've seen from elves so far might be walked back in favor of something more traditional.

I dont know how I feel about this myself, but I dont think how humans are is justification for elves being one way or the other.

In the Lore we received this morning the Elf says the humans are a plague and so they fight. That isnt the most original Lore ACE could use but it makes perfect sense.

Words like xenophobia while aplicable shouldnt be how we look at this. Elves arent narcissist a-holes who just want to kill humans because they think they are the chosen race, they want to preserve the worlds so they decided to get rid of the humans. The latter seems like a noble crusade.

According to that logic Elves should have no problem interacting with other races like Minotaurs (who i believe will be made to be just harmless battle junkies).

So the FW teacher we saw before could be how Elves interact with others races that they dont take as dangerous. Cold and somewhat rude but still treating them with respect.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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11 minutes ago, RKNM said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxBYsVztygY

 Geez, such little faith in humanity, feel good vid proving that not all humans are "pricks"

(hopefully you'll remember this video as I'm ganking you for 3 gold >:] )

Not all... just 80% (at best). I apologize, generalizing is wrong.

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11 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Not all... just 80% (at best). I apologize, generalizing is wrong.

<--- part of the 80% >:]

Edited by RKNM

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