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Ready, aim, fire - Official discussion thread


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Choose your Race's Vessel and activate it.

Choose your Class

Choose your starting Advantages and Disadvantages

Craft and slot Discipline Runes to further customize your character.

We may, or may not, get promotion classes on top of that.

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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9 minutes ago, Rikutatis said:

I have a feeling you'll either get to pick a class at vessel creation, OR the core class is going to be a discipline runestone like the others (maybe cheaper to create like basic gear), OR there won't be any classes and just discipline runestones (maybe what we think of as class will be your primary weapon discipline). 

Either way yes, expect a trip to crazy town and some crazy broken builds incoming. Devs were already expecting this even with the original concept of AT + disciplines though. Now it'll just be even more customizable. Again, I just hope the limits they put in place to this system will prevent "do it all" builds. One of the major draws of Crowfall's combat for me was party roles and team comps that matter. 

In GW2 and ESO, even tho characters had a very wide birth when it came to "doing everything" group composition still mattered A LOT. I'd imagine a similar system where you have access to a large potential pool of tools wouldn't be that different. 

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12 minutes ago, Rikutatis said:

I have a feeling you'll either get to pick a class at vessel creation, OR the core class is going to be a discipline runestone like the others (maybe cheaper to create like basic gear), OR there won't be any classes and just discipline runestones (maybe what we think of as class will be your primary weapon discipline). 

Either way yes, expect a trip to crazy town and some crazy broken builds incoming. Devs were already expecting this even with the original concept of AT + disciplines though. Now it'll just be even more customizable. Again, I just hope the limits they put in place to this system will prevent "do it all" builds. One of the major draws of Crowfall's combat for me was party roles and team comps that matter. 

Indeed. Hopefully this is where advantage/disadvantages come in. If you build a Vessel a certain way there should be hard choices and consequences.

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29 minutes ago, Helix said:

In GW2 and ESO, even tho characters had a very wide birth when it came to "doing everything" group composition still mattered A LOT. I'd imagine a similar system where you have access to a large potential pool of tools wouldn't be that different. 

I didn't play GW2 as extensively and as hardcore as I did ESO, so I'll comment only on ESO for now: I personally feel that builds mattered a lot more than team comps in ESO. The only party role that seemed to matter was having a dedicated templar healer (because of breath of life, a templar only heal power). Two of those in a group of 24 was enough. And even templar as the best healer appears to be gone with the latest patch it seems.  All the others basically needed a solid durable build with enough AoE damage, AoE CCs and cleanses. Tanking, dps'ing or utility weren't really a thing in terms of specialized roles. The only real difference was stamina builds did rapid maneuver (only needed 1 or 2) and magicka builds did proxy det (needed lots cause AoE dmg). In Crowfall's current pre-alpha combat I feel like specialized roles matter a lot more. You need the tanks to peel and tank, you need the dps to kill, supports to heal (well, mostly legios lol), etc. Any group that doesn't have enough of one of those roles is already at a disadvantage. Specialists appear to be without a role atm, we'll see once stealth is fully implemented. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Rikutatis said:

I didn't play GW2 as extensively and as hardcore as I did ESO, so I'll comment only on ESO for now: I personally feel that builds mattered a lot more than team comps in ESO. The only party role that seemed to matter was having a dedicated templar healer (because of breath of life, a templar only heal power). Two of those in a group of 24 was enough. And even templar as the best healer appears to be gone with the latest patch it seems.  All the others basically needed a solid durable build with enough AoE damage, AoE CCs and cleanses. Tanking, dps'ing or utility weren't really a thing in terms of specialized roles. The only real difference was stamina builds did rapid maneuver (only needed 1 or 2) and magicka builds did proxy det (needed lots cause AoE dmg). In Crowfall's current pre-alpha combat I feel like specialized roles matter a lot more. You need the tanks to peel and tank, you need the dps to kill, supports to heal (well, mostly legios lol), etc. Any group that doesn't have enough of one of those roles is already at a disadvantage. Specialists appear to be without a role atm, we'll see once stealth is fully implemented. 

When I played stamina builds were totally gimp. You're right about individual character builds being important, but we also assigned different "roles" and responsibilities to people which forced them to drastically alter their bars. We moved our cleanses off of our templar healers so they could conserve magicka and focus entirely on spamming breath of life / staff heals, our sorcs handled cleanses, projectile deflects, CCs and AOE silences. Dragon Knights pretty much just shat out banners and spammed Dark Talons along with the blinding fields for peels and backline defense.  At the time we were stacking barriers and warhorn buffs (which increase the amount of barrier you can have), something which NO ONE to my knowledge was actually doing.

I think crowfall can find a good balance of "fluid roles" over predetermined ones and still maintain that group building aspect.

Edited by Helix
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18 minutes ago, Helix said:

When I played stamina builds were totally gimp. You're right about individual character builds being important, but we also assigned different "roles" and responsibilities to people which forced them to drastically alter their bars. We moved our cleanses off of our templar healers so they could conserve magicka and focus entirely on spamming breath of life / staff heals, our sorcs handled cleanses, projectile deflects, CCs and AOE silences. Dragon Knights pretty much just shat out banners and spammed Dark Talons along with the blinding fields for peels and backline defense.  At the time we were stacking barriers and warhorn buffs (which increase the amount of barrier you can have), something which NO ONE to my knowledge was actually doing.

I think crowfall can find a good balance of "fluid roles" over predetermined ones and still maintain that group building aspect.

Good point on the ultimates, I guess you could say ultimate rotation could be something of a party role. Seems like you played in the early days, some of those ultimates like DK banners were rendered useless, but ultimate dumps and rotation have always been a thing. Vast majority of those ults were still selected based on AoE dmg potential though (save the sorcs AoE silence). Also in later builds magicka (or stamina) management was no longer a thing, champion points allowed you to spam powers infinitely pretty much as long as you built for it. Maybe that's what ruined everything. Crowfall might have the better idea with cooldowns on top of resource management. 

 

 

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Nice find Frykka.

But the implementation is whats going to be important. The archetypes are not going anywhere, they cant. The 3 archetype training has been a part of VIP and to remove that would heavily damage the VIP model. Well i should say i truly doubt this is something that would be removed, anything is possible. 

It could be race restricts starter runes, discipline runes, and archetype, and then promotion.

However, what it could also mean is that they are adding sub classes along with race unlocking. 

So you pick a race, you pick a class then you pick your promotion archetype. 

So basically you could be a :

Human -> fighter -> duelist

Or

Human->rogue->duelist

 

The race gives you X powers (and of course related starter rune/discipline rune restrictions).

The class gives you a very basic power outfit, like rogues always get the 'hide' ability, access to daggers, etc.. And fighters get access to a large amount of different weapon options, including a shield or 2hander. And also some survival type powers or maybe even some generic charge ability.

Then the last is the promotion like duelist that gives you your last power kit. And depending on the class, your hide might get upgraded to full stealth.

 

Theres alot they could do. If you pick hamster fighter duelist you could still get full stealth because they can give hamster the innate hide ability then duelist would upgrade hide regardless. Who knows, really. 

CfWBSig.png

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7 hours ago, Frykka said:

...   and there it was!  The vessels have changed... no longer "Archetypes" rather ONLY races ...

SO...   those of you who predict an uncoupling of AT as race-class fixed ARE correct...   
 

Nice find.  Maybe this was an intentional leak to fuel speculation, but I don't think so.  Rather, I suspect someone is wearing the cone of shame this morning for accidentally adding that to this weekend's build.

Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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10 hours ago, Frykka said:

OK so after egging my guild endlessly I got a group to go get minerals (and gems) so I could play with some necromancy before the probably wipe end of may...   and there it was!  The vessels have changed... no longer "Archetypes" rather ONLY races including 4 kinds of elves, several uses for human parts (Half elf, half giant) and the beast races (including the rat who isn't beastly but more ratly).

SO...   those of you who predict an uncoupling of AT as race-class fixed ARE correct...   the vessels already no longer reflect any class until you slot disciplines in them or pick the class when you enter the vessel and customize it.   Either way we now have a much more Shadowbane-like creation system including several new races all gaining differing racial base stats.  Nethari? = shade? or Nephilim?
 

sp7SfxY.png

Or maybe they put that because....IT'S A TRAP !

WnxjrJ9.gif

Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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That'd be a good one if the big reveal is the removal of archetypes and moving to race/class selections, but now that the devs see we discovered it in advance it ****ed them off so much they went back to archetypes to spite us.

Edited by mourne
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11 hours ago, Purpearl said:

I have to say that this is very interesting and gives credit to the uncoupling theory. With some bonuses like new races. I like it, even if Nethari are absolutely unknown to me.

You've not heard of the legendary Nethari? The red skinned elves of the desert? Whirling dervishes of iron and fire magic?

hottiemchotster.jpg

Nkoth!

Edited by Gradishar
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8 hours ago, pang said:

Indeed. Hopefully this is where advantage/disadvantages come in. If you build a Vessel a certain way there should be hard choices and consequences.

If they keep classes and training for particular classes, then there will still be massive choices.

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Also we got concepts arts of the blue elf (ICE powers) and the red elf (FIRE powers). I can link the ICE elf to the moon elves but i dont think the red elf is part of the wood elves. Of course i am thrusting in the fact that the different skin colors means different races.

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I think the Elves are:

  • Moon - Blue - Ice
  • Wood - Green - Nature (poison wood be better)
  • Nethari - Red - Fire
  • Half - Brown - maybe stealth (like shades)?
  • Fae - pink - Wings (gliding)
Edited by chancellor
Added Fae

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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