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"Massive Reveal" Day - Official discussion thread

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6 hours ago, RavenScara said:

i appreciate the confirmation when i seen Centaur have a female version it was slightly confusing since i considered Centaur more of a beast :P 

The only reason we have female centaurs (and male fae) is because we requested them and threw money at Todd's face.

Who knows, we might be female stoneborn if you throw enough money at ACE :P


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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8 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

You are right but if i had to choose today i would run without minor disciplines.

You could choose to focus your minor disciplines on non-combat passives, and switch active powers when there's gonna be no fight on sight

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9 hours ago, vandarr said:

All kidding aside, I'm ok with this. As patches modify the game, creative, new combinations arise to be the new "FOTM". Some players will naturally be excited by that and stick around, while others choose to fine tune their initial build, tinkering with it constantly in order to make it "perfect". The myriad of options means the characters never get stale for either party. Other than scouts and burning down the homes of my enemies, character building was my favorite part.

With the vessels system, players will likely build spec. vessels for specific situations and opponents, using different races, weapons, and disciplines.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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I'm really excited to see the information on the new update. While I wasn't a big fan of the original character models, it wasn't  a game breaker for me, the new character models/graphics will be more on par with  graphics in other current major MMO's. Let the testing begin.

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10 hours ago, Jah said:

I'm curious why you would rather run without minors than to add, say, Hand of Glory, Expansive Mind, Armor of Faith, Blood Pact, Thornskin, and/or Stoneskin. None of those compete with your other Passives.

Nah i will add those but it is just because i can. Would go with Armor of faith and blood pact probably. But is just because i can and not because i planned using them. We need more useful minor Discs.

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Due to the limited amount of passives and active abilities we'll have, consider the following 

Racials?:

Human - "Nothing Special" passive granting 5% to each stat pool

Half-Elf - Ability "Lay in Wait" grants invisibility when cast, ends on casting/movement/reveal/damage

Nethari - Arkon's Fury passive, bonus Sin damage(or just fire)

Fae(Fey?) - Wings, can double jump, and takes no fall damage(currently planned)

Wood Elf - Increased elemental damage passive, Support passive, can only have one of either equipt at a time on top of the passive limit

High Elf: Sun/Moon Elves? Both are High Elves right?

Sun - bonus Fire damage, weak to Ice damage, cannot be a Frostweaver

Moon - bonus Ice damage , weak to Fire damage, cannot be a Confessor

Stoneborn - Noticed a Minor Rune exclusive to stoneborn called Stoneskin, IMO that ability should be a racial for dwarves and naturally on all thier kits. (Since skill bar is limited regardless.)

Half Giant - Champions recovery when below 50% hp should suffice as an equiptable passive

Elkan - "Natural Perception" passive that allows them to see invisable players within 10m of them, giving the Elkan its Stalker title back 

Minotaur - increased damage when below 25% (or 50% hp?) passive

Centaur - Can move at mount speed (its planned to be like that right?)

Guinecean - Burrow (current)

 

Thoughts on this list?

Edited by Kiro

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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4 hours ago, coolster50 said:

The only reason we have female centaurs (and male fae) is because we requested them and threw money at Todd's face.

Who knows, we might be female stoneborn if you throw enough money at ACE :P

You realize there are no female stoneborn ?


Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

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18 hours ago, Apok said:

They did say there is more Disciplines to come, including the crafting ones. I haven't gone through them all but I'm sure if I did I could find a hard counter for every class in there.

For example: Knife Grinder removes bleed, that could be considered a hard counter to Myrms.

Sorry, I disagree:

<apparently the paste of the "Firewalker" rune won't stick (nor Friar below)...edit to say Firewalker decription should be here:

+5 fire resist; Fire Eate: Fire attacks restore health; Reflect Heat: (Reflect Fire Damage; Fire armor); Conduction: Passive:Increase attack power after Fire Damaged)>

Confessor attacks heal PLUS innate fire resist PLUS extra fire resist PLUS gain attack power when attacked by fire?  I know they are not a full list, but NO other class has this burden.  "Mitigating" bleed damage is not the same as this, this is the true definition of a 'hard-counter', it literally makes an entire class useless..

But in the words of the late, great Billy Mays "But wait, there's MORE"...we also get:

<Look @ Friar Disc, not typing it out, but = Sin immunity>

So that is only a major speed bump, not an outright hard-counter, but still, 2 runes dedicated to negating a single class? 

I have long been saying that ACE does  not actually want a ranged caster DPS class...we get crap dps abilities (being a two trick pony is not a dps set), we get more cc than dps (terribad idea, if I wanted to be a CC class I would have gone, I dunno, support?  Where CC tends to reside...)...and the list goes on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and then this.  

Sorry, not sorry...get rid of the caster DPS class, please, there is clearly zero desire to develop one properly, without letting the very clear bias shine through in examples like this.  This game is set-up to be about negative experience and griefing, and clearly there is development bias against a strong caster class as we continually get ignored, nerfed, and given crap like the two runes above which have ZERO equivalent for any of the other classes/races.  We are asked to shoulder an undue burden while simultaneously being told how we are "fine" because we get 2 dps abilities and a couple cc's...but when you are going to allow everyone to run around immune to an entire class, well, I have nothing positive to say, get rid of the class, please.

Edited by mivius

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25 minutes ago, mivius said:

Sorry, I disagree:

<apparently the paste of the "Firewalker" rune won't stick (nor Friar below)...edit to say Firewalker decription should be here:

+5 fire resist; Fire Eate: Fire attacks restore health; Reflect Heat: (Reflect Fire Damage; Fire armor); Conduction: Passive:Increase attack power after Fire Damaged)>

Confessor attacks heal PLUS innate fire resist PLUS extra fire resist PLUS gain attack power when attacked by fire?  I know they are not a full list, but NO other class has this burden.  "Mitigating" bleed damage is not the same as this, this is the true definition of a 'hard-counter', it literally makes an entire class useless..

But in the words of the late, great Billy Mays "But wait, there's MORE"...we also get:

<Look @ Friar Disc, not typing it out, but = Sin immunity>

So that is only a major speed bump, not an outright hard-counter, but still, 2 runes dedicated to negating a single class? 

I have long been saying that ACE does  not actually want a ranged caster DPS class...we get crap dps abilities (being a two trick pony is not a dps set), we get more cc than dps (terribad idea, if I wanted to be a CC class I would have gone, I dunno, support?  Where CC tends to reside...)...and the list goes on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and then this.  

Sorry, not sorry...get rid of the caster DPS class, please, there is clearly zero desire to develop one properly, without letting the very clear bias shine through in examples like this.  This game is set-up to be about negative experience and griefing, and clearly there is development bias against a strong caster class as we continually get ignored, nerfed, and given crap like the two runes above which have ZERO equivalent for any of the other classes/races.  We are asked to shoulder an undue burden while simultaneously being told how we are "fine" because we get 2 dps abilities and a couple cc's...but when you are going to allow everyone to run around immune to an entire class, well, I have nothing positive to say, get rid of the class, please.

Too early to whine..


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2 minutes ago, Yumx said:

Too early to whine..

Sorry thinking is hard.  I said I liked stuff, but critical thinking is still required for actual progress.  I'm oh sooo sorry that pointing out a development bias that negatively affects one class solely is 'whining' and I don't just prance around like a pretty pony princess and fall all over myself to gush about how everything is so awesome...some is good, but there are many clear questions/flaws.

Other point out frostweaver gets one weapon choice, fessor gets two, the book, and the same as FW...even though we get a 'crushing' discipline that only fessor and templar can use?  But it would have been far too hard to add confessor to a crush weapon, right?  Probably because then you have to ask how the rest of the abilities then work?  But did I mention this?  Not until now. 

There are huge issues: one common one is the question about performance given the graphics update.  I also would call into question if the stats, abilities, and effects of the runes will work, and if so, how will we actually know and be able to test them?  Can I test +3 or +5 damage modifier reasonably? No, it's smoke and mirrors, we have to guess.

And of course, ACE has worded things horrifically before, so what we read may not be what we actually see/get.  However, I will not sit back and say "Oh, this is cool" when they have displayed a pattern of being heavily biased against their sole caster dps AT/class, and the runes continue precisely along that thread.  I'm so sorry special snowflake sensibility thinks I should just be quiet about things, but I disagree.  I see one class bearing an undue burden, which I have been against for every AT/class, just as I am against classes being hard-counters, and/or overpowered.

Of course, it's almost always the people who I never see on a confessor that continually say "it's fine", because it's not your chosen class(es) that suddenly have an insurmountable obstacle placed in your path.

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Awesome update very proud to have backed this game. Hoping with this change to more generalization we can get to 24/7 testing sooner and get the archtypes Ahem classes out in the field.

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50 minutes ago, mivius said:

Sorry thinking is hard.  I said I liked stuff, but critical thinking is still required for actual progress.  I'm oh sooo sorry that pointing out a development bias that negatively affects one class solely is 'whining' and I don't just prance around like a pretty pony princess and fall all over myself to gush about how everything is so awesome...some is good, but there are many clear questions/flaws.

Other point out frostweaver gets one weapon choice, fessor gets two, the book, and the same as FW...even though we get a 'crushing' discipline that only fessor and templar can use?  But it would have been far too hard to add confessor to a crush weapon, right?  Probably because then you have to ask how the rest of the abilities then work?  But did I mention this?  Not until now. 

There are huge issues: one common one is the question about performance given the graphics update.  I also would call into question if the stats, abilities, and effects of the runes will work, and if so, how will we actually know and be able to test them?  Can I test +3 or +5 damage modifier reasonably? No, it's smoke and mirrors, we have to guess.

And of course, ACE has worded things horrifically before, so what we read may not be what we actually see/get.  However, I will not sit back and say "Oh, this is cool" when they have displayed a pattern of being heavily biased against their sole caster dps AT/class, and the runes continue precisely along that thread.  I'm so sorry special snowflake sensibility thinks I should just be quiet about things, but I disagree.  I see one class bearing an undue burden, which I have been against for every AT/class, just as I am against classes being hard-counters, and/or overpowered.

Of course, it's almost always the people who I never see on a confessor that continually say "it's fine", because it's not your chosen class(es) that suddenly have an insurmountable obstacle placed in your path.

Calm down man. You are being too negative. Why cant you wait to try the changes before you starting complaining?

So what if confessors have a hard counter in disciplines? If you feel the person you are fighting is bad matchup why can you just switch targets? Call for help or something? It is not the end of the world!

The build i was planning also have a pretty big disvantage against the "Shield Breaker" Disc but you dont see me complaining. If you at least was mature about bringing up your concerns we all would understand but you are just throwing a tantrum.

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2 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Calm down man. You are being too negative. Why cant you wait to try the changes before you starting complaining?

So what if confessors have a hard counter in disciplines? If you feel the person you are fighting is bad matchup why can you just switch targets? Call for help or something? It is not the end of the world!

The build i was planning also have a pretty big disvantage against the "Shield Breaker" Disc but you dont see me complaining. If you at least was mature about bringing up your concerns we all would understand but you are just throwing a tantrum.

Yeah pretty sure thats a major design concept for ACE. The fact that classes are not meant to be able to 1v1 everything, you will have weaknesses and will need help from allies.

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3 minutes ago, pang said:

Yeah pretty sure thats a major design concept for ACE. The fact that classes are not meant to be able to 1v1 everything, you will have weaknesses and will need help from allies.

 

15 hours ago, RavenScara said:

they never said it would be balanced they were more looking at is this fun, not every class will be balanced for every situation. 

 

The idea that all characters should be equally balanced in all situations is not one of our design goals. We’re giving you the control to be able to customize your character. The natural result is that some character builds will inevitably be better than others.

 

directly from the faqs for proof.

as i said yesterday when someone complained that balancing would be a nightmare.

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10 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Calm down man. You are being too negative. Why cant you wait to try the changes before you starting complaining?

So what if confessors have a hard counter in disciplines? If you feel the person you are fighting is bad matchup why can you just switch targets? Call for help or something? It is not the end of the world!

The build i was planning also have a pretty big disvantage against the "Shield Breaker" Disc but you dont see me complaining. If you at least was mature about bringing up your concerns we all would understand but you are just throwing a tantrum.

Because I can think for myself.

Only ONE class is 100% dependent upon fire: confessor (and in fact, there are few other 'fire' based abilities out there).  The only other class that was pigeon-holed to one damage type is Druid AFAIK, and I certainly don't see a hard-counter for that damage type, but even they get scimitars and shields now...

Confessors already have a hard counter class to contend with, but it was SO important to put in the ONLY hard-counter rune which targets one specific class in the first iteration of disciplines?  This isn't random, haphazard, a mistake, or any of that ilk, it was a deliberate design choice.  This again feeds into the fact there is a serious and severe bias on the development side against the single ranged dps class: actions speak MUCH louder than any words they can throw out there.  And amazingly , we not only get the hard-counter, but a second super-gimping of the confessor class in a second rune (Friar), which only affects two classes total, and one disproportionately over the other.

A disadvanatge, like shield breaker, or blade turner is similar to the friar in some aspect, but is on a totally different level than a single hard-counter rune.  It also does not target a single class, Firewalker does.  Even comparing blade turners blade barrier doesn't compare to getting healed when I attack you just because I am pigeonholed into using fire.  I have ZERO other damage type option...repeat ZERO OTHER DAMAGE TYPE OPTIONS.

Friar alone is enough to cause serious hampering for a confessor, Firewalker is literally the dev's flipping off the confessor class.  It's not a matter of a "bad matchup", it's literally removing all options except "avoid anyone using the rune"...again, undue burden...no one else has to bear this.

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