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Stream Clip: Crowfall Devs response to Multi-Boxing


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11 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Sigh i know people wont listen but i have to say it:

You dont have to buy multiple accounts to ENJOY the game!

The only reason people do it is because they WANT to do everything. That is not supposed to influence how the game is made at all! If somehow ACE could block multiple accounts i believe the playerbase would keep the same as long as the game delivers what it is promising.

Can the players who are planning to MA answer that? If somehow you could not buy MAs would you still play the game?

Playing MA and RMT really arent things that should concern ACE.

 

To each their own, I played with a guy back in the day that loved multi boxing, for him that was fun. 

My personal thoughts, Key cloning shouldn't be allowed, if you want to run 30 different accounts and have a key board for each then sure GL with that, but key cloning imo is no different from botting. You aren't actively playing the alt accounts no matter how you try to justify if  when you Key Clone, but, thats just my opinion, I hope they crack the whip when it comes to multi boxing, I realized the $ being thrown at them can makes it easy to turn a blind eye but multi boxing should only happen when each account is being played directly by the owner not indirectly with key cloning.

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I think there is a disconnect between what the game will be and what pre-alpha currently lets you do. Its easy to dismiss all the concern people have when you have all the recipes and can bypass skill

It's bad for the game whether it's 2 accounts or twenty in my opinion. There are so many ways this will affect gameplay as the game is further and further understood. Stealth an extra account nea

To each their own, I played with a guy back in the day that loved multi boxing, for him that was fun.  My personal thoughts, Key cloning shouldn't be allowed, if you want to run 30 different acco

13 minutes ago, Apok said:

To each their own, I played with a guy back in the day that loved multi boxing, for him that was fun. 

My personal thoughts, Key cloning shouldn't be allowed, if you want to run 30 different accounts and have a key board for each then sure GL with that, but key cloning imo is no different from botting. You aren't actively playing the alt accounts no matter how you try to justify if  when you Key Clone, but, thats just my opinion, I hope they crack the whip when it comes to multi boxing, I realized the $ being thrown at them can makes it easy to turn a blind eye but multi boxing should only happen when each account is being played directly by the owner not indirectly with key cloning.

Completely agree, key cloning of any kind shouldn't be allowed. If key cloning armies of 30 become a common sight, I sure as hell won't stick around. I already saw someone running 2 accounts with the help of macros or something similar to simulate autorun + RMB dashes on both accounts (no way someone could be inputting all those commands on two separate clients in a game that doesn't have autorun). If key cloning is allowed, it'll only go downhill from there. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, renoaku said:

Wow hopefully they re-think this with having to have multiple accounts just to enjoy the game and effectively play different classes

You can play all classes and all races on one account. As with many games, races have limited access to what classes they can play however they seem pretty open to adding more classes per race as well as more races/classes down the line.

The crow/vessel system still exists with the ability to swap race/class, now there is just more options in what people can swap to without the archetype limitations.

 


 

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2 hours ago, thenebrosity said:

They are now pretty clear that multi-boxing is allowable.. I just wana know if macros and scripting will be allowed.. not even asking about botting.

I've seen "multi-boxing" mean both multiple logged in accounts with one played at a time and controlling multiple characters at once with one control setup. To me this is very different.

I don't see how they can or would even try to block the first type of multi-boxing or basic macros/scripting. 

So far, I don't know what one would use macros/scripting for beyond hitting F repeatedly or comboing abilities together (Bard twisting). The way non-combat and combat actions/UI are designed, don't see much use, then again I usually play games myself. This is assuming "macros/scripting" means to hit one key and do several, but still requiring active input. Not hit one key and the character goes about the world for hours by itself.

Personally hope controlling multiple characters at once, regardless of what it's called, is not allowed. Be it detection or reporting resulting in folks going away. Despite a player actively controlling things, it isn't humanly possible to do so without 3rd party help and goes beyond what is default for typical gaming hardware/software these days. Obviously some like this way of playing, but when it comes to PVP, I think it cheapens things. One isn't "technically" playing multiple characters if one set of controls is doing the work of multiple players. Then again, wiping a player doing so and having too much loot to loot could be nice as well.

 

 


 

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2 hours ago, thenebrosity said:

 

- They aren't opposed to RMT, in-fact, I think they said it was allowable (but you can't sell on the official forums) and done at your own risk.

They did not say RMT was "allowable". They said they cannot police what happens outside the CF game service or Trusted Traders, and if you do something that causes a problem issue within the game service you risk disciplinary action on your account.

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1 hour ago, APE said:

I've seen "multi-boxing" mean both multiple logged in accounts with one played at a time and controlling multiple characters at once with one control setup. To me this is very different.

I don't see how they can or would even try to block the first type of multi-boxing or basic macros/scripting. 

So far, I don't know what one would use macros/scripting for beyond hitting F repeatedly or comboing abilities together (Bard twisting). The way non-combat and combat actions/UI are designed, don't see much use, then again I usually play games myself. This is assuming "macros/scripting" means to hit one key and do several, but still requiring active input. Not hit one key and the character goes about the world for hours by itself.

Personally hope controlling multiple characters at once, regardless of what it's called, is not allowed. Be it detection or reporting resulting in folks going away. Despite a player actively controlling things, it isn't humanly possible to do so without 3rd party help and goes beyond what is default for typical gaming hardware/software these days. Obviously some like this way of playing, but when it comes to PVP, I think it cheapens things. One isn't "technically" playing multiple characters if one set of controls is doing the work of multiple players. Then again, wiping a player doing so and having too much loot to loot could be nice as well.

 

Would you be opposed to a person using two computers or even 3 at a time with two to three different keyboards and mice to PvP / Farm / etc? Why impose a physical limitation on players when it can be done digitally?

 

42 minutes ago, miraluna said:

They did not say RMT was "allowable". They said they cannot police what happens outside the CF game service or Trusted Traders, and if you do something that causes a problem issue within the game service you risk disciplinary action on your account.

They are not opposed to RMT and do not have any rules against it other than you can't do it on official servers because they don't want to deal with all the people who get scammed. Do it on your own risk is their stance; it's not "allowable" but it's not against the rules.

 

 

 

Edited by thenebrosity
typo

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lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

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23 minutes ago, thenebrosity said:

Would you be opposed to a person using two computers or even 3 at a time with two to three different keyboards and mice to PvP / Farm / etc? Why impose a physical limitation on players when it can be done digitally?

Holding down F on multiple keyboards using both hands, feet and your nose is one thing and when it comes to PVE or non-combat related activities, much less of an issue for me. Actually being able to fully or partial control multiple characters in PVP is much different and not possible without support from hardware/software that goes beyond what I consider "normal" ability.

Just because there is support to allow one to control 50 characters at once, doesn't mean it should be allowed.

I'm sure attempting to play this way would come with challenges and potential reward (this is a risk vs reward game after all), but I still feel that it takes away from the spirit of gaming, especially competitive play. I don't go into a game assuming I'm going to run into someone controlling 10 clones that all instantly blast me in the face, be it solo or grouped.

Honestly don't care that much, but if given the choice, I'd rather not have such things happening.

Tech leads to much grey and it's up to the devs to decide and fans will either accept it or not.

I have a similar issue with triple monitor providing greater FOV. Just because it can be supported, does't mean it should when the game is being built with competitiveness in mind. Any advantage provided thanks to additional software/hardware support seems bad to me. If we could zoom out further or increase FOV on a single monitor would make it less of an issue, but still multi setup provides more. Like multi-boxing, doubt that many will have it for it to matter that much, but I want to win/lose based on what I and an enemy are doing ourselves, not what extra help is provided thanks to having access to more resources out of game.

Edited by APE

 


 

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34 minutes ago, APE said:

Holding down F on multiple keyboards using both hands, feet and your nose is one thing and when it comes to PVE or non-combat related activities, much less of an issue for me. Actually being able to fully or partial control multiple characters in PVP is much different and not possible without support from hardware/software that goes beyond what I consider "normal" ability.

Just because there is support to allow one to control 50 characters at once, doesn't mean it should be allowed.

I'm sure attempting to play this way would come with challenges and potential reward (this is a risk vs reward game after all), but I still feel that it takes away from the spirit of gaming, especially competitive play. I don't go into a game assuming I'm going to run into someone controlling 10 clones that all instantly blast me in the face, be it solo or grouped.

Honestly don't care that much, but if given the choice, I'd rather not have such things happening.

Tech leads to much grey and it's up to the devs to decide and fans will either accept it or not.

I have a similar issue with triple monitor providing greater FOV. Just because it can be supported, does't mean it should when the game is being built with competitiveness in mind. Any advantage provided thanks to additional software/hardware support seems bad to me. If we could zoom out further or increase FOV on a single monitor would make it less of an issue, but still multi setup provides more. Like multi-boxing, doubt that many will have it for it to matter that much, but I want to win/lose based on what I and an enemy are doing ourselves, not what extra help is provided thanks to having access to more resources out of game.

I agree with your post for the most part... in Shadowbane I always loved running 10+ clients at a time.. the multitasking of it was a game in and of itself for me.. However, as far as the pay2win concerns.. the same could be said for people who buy multiple accounts to have an edge over other players who only have one account and need to spread themselves out (skillwise) over many classes with one account.. giving players multiple character slots again would help mitigate this "advantage" by allowing players more flexibility without having to buy multiple accounts... Meh.. we'll see what happens XD

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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19 minutes ago, thenebrosity said:

I agree with your post.. for the most part.. in Shadowbane I always loved running 10+ clients at a time.. the multitasking of it was a game in and of itself for me.. However, as far as the pay2win concerns.. the same could be said for people who buy multiple accounts to have an edge over ther players who only have one account and need to spread themselves out over many classes with one account. Meh.. we'll see what happens XD

I had a "buff bot" in DAoC which I thought was very cheesy/lame, but was very easy/cheap to do and was pretty common. Likely ran many away from the game. Same thing though, if I had a choice, I'd rather it wasn't a thing and I believe they eventually changed how buffs worked so they became useless or close to it.

Don't believe there is a right/wrong stance and just a matter of preference.

We don't all play on identical tournament style setups so is what it is. An optimized game should run well enough on a min/rec spec machine with those above likely having a slight edge and those below taking a hit. That is just for a standard setup. Once you toss in multiple monitors, computers, accounts, 3rd party stuff, it starts to get wonky.

Multiple accounts aren't "needed" but definitely provide an advantage depending on game design. Someone putting 100% of their time into one class/build is likely to be very good at it compared to someone else trying to juggle 5 accounts with VIP. Same goes for games with character slots. Progressing, gearing, mastering multiple characters takes more time/effort/skill typically.

As with other games, if someone has the time/energy/money to juggle tons of accounts, so be it. A single account user shouldn't be at any significant disadvantage in whatever they focus on. I have several accounts myself, but as I don't enjoy gathering/crafting so far in CF and don't need to play every class, I'll likely play one main with 1-2 sort of there when I want.

Again, this is different than if I decide I need to roll around with 5 hamsters at the same time popping out of the ground and attacking someone.

Edited by APE

 


 

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8 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Sigh i know people wont listen but i have to say it:

You dont have to buy multiple accounts to ENJOY the game!

The only reason people do it is because they WANT to do everything. That is not supposed to influence how the game is made at all! If somehow ACE could block multiple accounts i believe the playerbase would keep the same as long as the game delivers what it is promising.

Can the players who are planning to MA answer that? If somehow you could not buy MAs would you still play the game?

Playing MA and RMT really arent things that should concern ACE.

 

I play multiple accounts

1 Full Fleet of accounts think it was 7 for EVE Online

Had a Total of 8 Arche Age Accounts all patron before they ruined it best game I ever played.

To Answer with honesty about this question, I am honestly quite disappointed in "Crow Fall" if what I understand is correct...

I thought "Crow Fall" was supposed to be a "Sand Box" "War Throne Game" at least this is how me and a few of my friends who bought this game thought of it...

But yes (I would play without multiple accounts) ***ONLY*** if they keep it sand-box based for example...

1.) Character per account (Which can max all crafting, and harvesting skills if they choose to do such) Obviously this would likely be time consuming.

2.) NO RACE RESTRICTIONS, I don't like the idea of being locked into a single character, or having to create multiple characters on an account repeat quests and such just to play certain classes (This should be undone) and thought about before proceeding with this, if I want to be an ELF Warrior, or a Human Mage there should be no restrictions to which races can learn such classes besides the looks, personally I love being an ELF, I have been an ELF in online games for over 10 years, but to have such restrictions dropped onto me is really insane as a player.

3.) I am not looking for a game with (ENERGY Limits, or Limits to crafting and such like "Arche Age" & "Albion.)

So in general if these both can be met I have no problem playing on a single account

Dark Fall, Rise OF Agon, is an example of a game that is developed and sand-boxed correctly but highly out of date and could be created better.

Edited by renoaku
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8 hours ago, APE said:

You can play all classes and all races on one account. As with many games, races have limited access to what classes they can play however they seem pretty open to adding more classes per race as well as more races/classes down the line.

The crow/vessel system still exists with the ability to swap race/class, now there is just more options in what people can swap to without the archetype limitations.

So if I understand this correctly its still basically adding a "Race System" For example when I would create a character I would make an ELF, and be locked to a certain amount of classes via the vessel system?

Or are you saying that a user can basically swap both Race & Class via the Vessel system on the same account without having to switch characters basically, and saving all crafting progress and such account wide / server wide rather than per character / vessel?

Edited by renoaku
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10 hours ago, renoaku said:

So if I understand this correctly its still basically adding a "Race System" For example when I would create a character I would make an ELF, and be locked to a certain amount of classes via the vessel system?

Or are you saying that a user can basically swap both Race & Class via the Vessel system on the same account without having to switch characters basically, and saving all crafting progress and such account wide / server wide rather than per character / vessel?

The 2nd.

They aren't switching to a traditional character system, we will still be blank Crows that can change everything. They are just adding another step to the process of creating a build with race and class selection instead of just Archetype.

Graves, body parts, Necromancy are still in and will be making Race Vessels that you can swap at Temples. We'll be able to modify looks and advantages/disadvantages when we make each new combo. Not entirely sure how class selection works, but I believe once we have our Race Vessel, we then choose from available Classes and we pop into the world as that combo. We then equip weapons/gear specific to that class along with Discipline Runes.

The Archetype training trees will be replaced with very similar Class trees. So if you want to play a Knight as an Elken one week and a Centaur the next, you can. You will gain the benefit of the Knight training no matter what race you swap to. While overall a cosmetic difference, each race will also have different stats and potentially different default abilities making for more ways to build a "character."

Sames goes for Universals like gathering and crafting. These are account wide no matter race/class.

As before, VIP will likely be allowing us to train 3 classes at a time instead of one.

Overall the race/class change didn't drastically change how the game will play out. Just have more options now.

One account has access to everything and will be up to us to choose what we want to train/play at any given time. However, as before, we can only train 1 Universal and 1-3 Classes at a time so multiple accounts will still be useful for those that want an account focused on Gathering, another Crafting, another Combat, another insert whatever. These are meant to be hard role choices that we select to train, but still able to change from one to another as before.

Edited by APE

 


 

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On 5/18/2017 at 1:26 PM, recatek said:

I would like to see a clearer statement about keycloning between clients and whether or not it would be a rule violation.


Yes this is an issue because sometimes the terms get intertwined.

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On 5/19/2017 at 3:44 PM, Apok said:

To each their own, I played with a guy back in the day that loved multi boxing, for him that was fun. 

My personal thoughts, Key cloning shouldn't be allowed, if you want to run 30 different accounts and have a key board for each then sure GL with that, but key cloning imo is no different from botting. You aren't actively playing the alt accounts no matter how you try to justify if  when you Key Clone, but, thats just my opinion, I hope they crack the whip when it comes to multi boxing, I realized the $ being thrown at them can makes it easy to turn a blind eye but multi boxing should only happen when each account is being played directly by the owner not indirectly with key cloning.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. As someone who has keycloned in other games (where it was acceptable) I have a good insight on how it works. The way movement works in crowfall keycloning would be nearly impossible due to different run speeds and no auto follow. Its possible someone could modify the memory of the game to have their character follow another but that would be considered "hacking" and is bannable.

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It's bad for the game whether it's 2 accounts or twenty in my opinion.

There are so many ways this will affect gameplay as the game is further and further understood. Stealth an extra account near a resource spawn. or 2. Or 10. Then I just call in reinforcements as needed. Set stealthed bards or cleric bots on macros in each group for heals and buffs. Do the same at sieges from inside the walls.

Hopefully some form of dual or more multi-boxing doesn't become so commonplace that it's essentially a requirement.

But if they can't do anything about it then they can't do anything about it. I'd hope for perma-bans if caught using multiple accounts in any type of PvP on macro, personally.

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On 5/19/2017 at 3:26 PM, BarriaKarl said:

Sigh i know people wont listen but i have to say it:

You dont have to buy multiple accounts to ENJOY the game!

The only reason people do it is because they WANT to do everything. That is not supposed to influence how the game is made at all! If somehow ACE could block multiple accounts i believe the playerbase would keep the same as long as the game delivers what it is promising.

Can the players who are planning to MA answer that? If somehow you could not buy MAs would you still play the game?

Playing MA and RMT really arent things that should concern ACE.

 

I think there is a disconnect between what the game will be and what pre-alpha currently lets you do. Its easy to dismiss all the concern people have when you have all the recipes and can bypass skill training with potions. In reality a crafter will be able to do -nothing- for weeks, and then craft a single something for -weeks-. God forbid they change their mind on what they wanted to do.

I also think theres a disconnect about the concern we have for multi boxing and multi accounts. 

I am not worried about the people who would normally buy extra accounts for a game, they will do it anyway. I am worried about the vast amount of people that plan on doing it, myself included, that would normally not do it,  because it allows you to completely bypass interdependence and reliance and specialization with very very small amount of effort.

The main issues why its going to be a thing is the 100% passive training, and the EXTREMELY narrow specialization behind months and months and years of skill training wall. 

 

The fallacy is not that i want to do everything, its i want to do a few things out of the dozens and dozens and dozens of options. Again, i don't want to do everything, i just don't want to do the exact same thing for months when theres like 50 other things the game requires to play it. 

There is literally no way to make a single thing like beating on slate for months enjoyable enough to actually do it for months on end. 

 

The reason why this multi account thing is harmful to the game is because a new players perspective. 

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1 hour ago, Vectious said:

I think there is a disconnect between what the game will be and what pre-alpha currently lets you do. Its easy to dismiss all the concern people have when you have all the recipes and can bypass skill training with potions. In reality a crafter will be able to do -nothing- for weeks, and then craft a single something for -weeks-. God forbid they change their mind on what they wanted to do.

I also think theres a disconnect about the concern we have for multi boxing and multi accounts. 

I am not worried about the people who would normally buy extra accounts for a game, they will do it anyway. I am worried about the vast amount of people that plan on doing it, myself included, that would normally not do it,  because it allows you to completely bypass interdependence and reliance and specialization with very very small amount of effort.

The main issues why its going to be a thing is the 100% passive training, and the EXTREMELY narrow specialization behind months and months and years of skill training wall. 

 

The fallacy is not that i want to do everything, its i want to do a few things out of the dozens and dozens and dozens of options. Again, i don't want to do everything, i just don't want to do the exact same thing for months when theres like 50 other things the game requires to play it. 

There is literally no way to make a single thing like beating on slate for months enjoyable enough to actually do it for months on end. 

 

The reason why this multi account thing is harmful to the game is because a new players perspective. 

I dont understand. You are in a guild right? Dont you guys have players who want to craft/gather? I know people who enjoy those are freaks (i plan to be gatherer) but they still exist so why dont you just do your thing (fighting?) and leave them to supply you?

Do you also get tired of fighting?

Edited by BarriaKarl
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19 minutes ago, Vectious said:

I think there is a disconnect between what the game will be and what pre-alpha currently lets you do. Its easy to dismiss all the concern people have when you have all the recipes and can bypass skill training with potions. In reality a crafter will be able to do -nothing- for weeks, and then craft a single something for -weeks-. God forbid they change their mind on what they wanted to do.

I also think theres a disconnect about the concern we have for multi boxing and multi accounts. 

I am not worried about the people who would normally buy extra accounts for a game, they will do it anyway. I am worried about the vast amount of people that plan on doing it, myself included, that would normally not do it,  because it allows you to completely bypass interdependence and reliance and specialization with very very small amount of effort.

The main issues why its going to be a thing is the 100% passive training, and the EXTREMELY narrow specialization behind months and months and years of skill training wall. 

 

The fallacy is not that i want to do everything, its i want to do a few things out of the dozens and dozens and dozens of options. Again, i don't want to do everything, i just don't want to do the exact same thing for months when theres like 50 other things the game requires to play it. 

There is literally no way to make a single thing like beating on slate for months enjoyable enough to actually do it for months on end. 

 

The reason why this multi account thing is harmful to the game is because a new players perspective. 

This sums up my concerns very nicely.

 

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10 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I dont undestand. You are in a guild right? Dont you guys have players who want to craft/gather? I know people who enjoy those are freaks (i plan to be gatherer) but they still exist so why dont you just do your thing (fighting?) and leave them to supply you?

Do you also get tired of fighting?

I don't understand your lack of understanding.

The game heavily motivates the purchase of alt accounts. It is the only way to access general skill content. VIP won't allow a single account to do that.

Motivating thousands of players (who generally would prefer not to have to juggle multiple accounts) to nonetheless buy multiple accounts creates a real risk and likely impact on gameplay, some easy to foresee and some difficult to foresee.

Tark and some folks were always going to own multiple accounts. Most players were not planning to do that, but they are doing that. The vast majority of testers I have talked to have done that already.

Nothing confusing here and the fact that another guy in the guild might have a crafting account really is 100% irrelevant.

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25 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I dont undestand. You are in a guild right? Dont you guys have players who want to craft/gather? I know people who enjoy those are freaks (i plan to be gatherer) but they still exist so why dont you just do your thing (fighting?) and leave them to supply you?

Do you also get tired of fighting?

I always try and look outside my box of preference. 

Its not about what i like doing or dislike doing, its how others will see the game and what they are willing to do. 

You cant look at it like "well i like it so theres no issue".

I have done gathering in tons of games, i actually really enjoyed it in Conan Exiles, in Crowfall i cant stand it. Theres to much repetitive work involved to enjoy it. And this isint even going in to the issue that i can only beat on slate effectively. Let alone wood/leather/ore. 

 

And yes, i do get tired of fighting. Theres a point of diminishing returns on any one thing, if you do it enough. That is human nature. And thats the issue, if the game wont let me change up my game play until months go by, i will stop playing. Its as simple as that. So people bypass this restriction with alt accounts. Thats what new players will be up against. 

Other games, in my 'off' time of events or grouping up with guildies and friends i would spend -hours- gathering resources to fuel other aspects of the game.  While it may not of been a constant enjoyment it at least broke up the gameplay so im not always doing the exact same thing. Again, this is the core issue, i dont want to do everything, i just dont want to do a single thing. 

 

The passives do help, however, they are basically a jumper around the core development behind the entire skill system. It sorta bypasses the root of the issue instead of addressing it. BUT i will say, i am glad they addressed the issue even a little, it shows they at least identify it as a problem.

Edited by Vectious

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