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mortalman

Guinecean Hit Box Advantage?

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Seeing as the different races of Crowfall are significantly different in size wouldn't each race hit box be different?  Seeing as Guinecean (Hamster Race) are by far the smallest race wouldn't they have a huge advantage over all other races considering they will be much harder to hit due to their small size?  Is anything being done to balance the differences in hitboxes?  Do taller races have to aim down slightly to hit a Guinecean in melee?  Do taller races have longer reach in melee?  How does differences in size effect the pvp scene right now in prealpha?

 

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they have stated this is already the case.

centuar has a larger hit box and guin has a smaller one

edit: or not these days... ¬_¬

Edited by Tinnis

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That's exactly my concern of the Massive Reveal for splitting race and class.

I'am also worried about the exponential cost of adding new class/race. Even though ACE has to design difference levels of armour for the new race anyway, the costs of new animations for the new race with every existing classes/new animations of the new class for every races will still be exponential, will this severely reduce the incentive of ACE launching new class/race??

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1 hour ago, buddypun said:

That's exactly my concern of the Massive Reveal for splitting race and class.

I'am also worried about the exponential cost of adding new class/race. Even though ACE has to design difference levels of armour for the new race anyway, the costs of new animations for the new race with every existing classes/new animations of the new class for every races will still be exponential, will this severely reduce the incentive of ACE launching new class/race??

I don't think so. ACE will likely not even consider adding a new race/class until post-launch, after which the success of the game will decide their ability to expand.

 

As for hitboxes, based on this and that, the Guineceans will likely have less health than the larger races. I may be misremembering, but that seems like the primary trade-off. Better dexterity for less strength, smaller size for less health. It's in the stats, I believe.

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11 hours ago, Dondagora said:

 

 

As for hitboxes, based on this and that, the Guineceans will likely have less health than the larger races. I may be misremembering, but that seems like the primary trade-off. Better dexterity for less strength, smaller size for less health. It's in the stats, I believe.

 

Fair enough, but how does ArtCraft know exactly how much less health should a Guinecean have compared to the larger classes?  This seems like it will be very difficult to balance.  

Edited by mortalman

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42 minutes ago, mortalman said:

Fair enough, but how does ArtCraft know exactly how much less health should a Guinecean have compared to the larger classes?  This seems like it will be very difficult to balance.  

I believe making guineceans more squishy is as far as they will go balance-wise. They already said balancing isnt their primary focus.

Asking for numbers this early in developtment is not worth, they wil just see how their changes work in game before choosing. I dont remember seeing any talks before about guineceans and their hitbox so we may already be in a good place.

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13 hours ago, buddypun said:

That's exactly my concern of the Massive Reveal for splitting race and class.

I'am also worried about the exponential cost of adding new class/race. Even though ACE has to design difference levels of armour for the new race anyway, the costs of new animations for the new race with every existing classes/new animations of the new class for every races will still be exponential, will this severely reduce the incentive of ACE launching new class/race??

They already addressed this. And when they evaluated the cost to make the current change they found it was easily able to be financed. It didint even set them back schedule wise. 

However, what it does give them is a way to potentially change alot in the game by introduce something as simple as a new race. So the content vs cost going this direction is amazing so there was literally a positive outcome in every way for this change. 


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20 hours ago, mortalman said:

Seeing as the different races of Crowfall are significantly different in size wouldn't each race hit box be different?  Seeing as Guinecean (Hamster Race) are by far the smallest race wouldn't they have a huge advantage over all other races considering they will be much harder to hit due to their small size?  Is anything being done to balance the differences in hitboxes?  Do taller races have to aim down slightly to hit a Guinecean in melee?  Do taller races have longer reach in melee?  How does differences in size effect the pvp scene right now in prealpha?

 

Why should the hit boxes be the same?


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6 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

This game isn't built to be balanced, and for some of us old school pvpers the imbalances are what made things interesting.

I hate agreeing with you... :P lol


"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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12 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

This game isn't built to be balanced, and for some of us old school pvpers the imbalances are what made things interesting.

Still I think we can all agree, that if one class or race is grossly overpowered you're going to see half the playerbase eventually start to use that class/race.  The reverse is also true, if a particular race/class is gimped, than your not going to see to many people play that race or class.  

Some sort of "balance" should be strived for to keep a diversity of players and classes in game.  

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16 minutes ago, mortalman said:

Still I think we can all agree, that if one class or race is grossly overpowered you're going to see half the playerbase eventually start to use that class/race.  The reverse is also true, if a particular race/class is gimped, than your not going to see to many people play that race or class.  

Some sort of "balance" should be strived for to keep a diversity of players and classes in game.  

A guinecean is not overpowered because of a smaller hitbox, that's like saying a centaur is overpowered because it moves faster.  In the guinecean's case the game is so easy to aim in and the abilities are so generous that hitbox size really won't matter most of the time.

Every race will have its perks, and good players will figure out how to navigate those perks.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I discussed this with a couple guildies, people will play the other races for a plethora of different reasons, You see it in every game on the market, people roll the biggest race possible because they just like it's looks or whatever. Now you're probably thinking "yes but that's tab targeting and a completely different scenario", well it's not, smaller races are harder to target regardless of whether it's action combat or tab targeting, yet people still make the Giant whatever. It won't be an issue, you also need to take into account racials, maybe they'll do another pass at the racials and the smaller hit box races will end up with mediocre while the rest have great racials.

The bottom line is while I think hit box is important and likely will roll Hamster (moreso for burrow) that doesn't mean everyone will, people will play the larger races for numerous reasons.

Edited by Apok

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On 5/22/2017 at 2:18 PM, VIKINGNAIL said:

A guinecean is not overpowered because of a smaller hitbox, that's like saying a centaur is overpowered because it moves faster.  In the guinecean's case the game is so easy to aim in and the abilities are so generous that hitbox size really won't matter most of the time.

Every race will have its perks, and good players will figure out how to navigate those perks.

What do you mean by "the game is so easy to aim in"?  Is every spell a really wide cone?  Is this game directional aiming, as in all you have to do is aim in the general direction of your target and you get a guaranteed hit?  If a centaur is the fastest moving character what stops it from just glueing itself to the back of an enemy player and not stop swinging his weapon until his enemy is dead?

From what I see on twitch players are not getting anywhere close to 90 FPS, so I haven't bothered playing yet.  

Please tell me that two pvp oriented built players, with equal gear and equal combat oriented branches in their skill trees, that the number one factor determining the victor is that players skill behind the keyboard.  

I don't expect "perfect" balance.  Not even million player Mobas have "perfect" balance, but I do expect an honest effort to be made to ensure no one is ridiculously overpowered, just because of the skills and race he chooses.  

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5 minutes ago, mortalman said:

What do you mean by "the game is so easy to aim in"?  Is every spell a really wide cone?  Is this game directional aiming, as in all you have to do is aim in the general direction of your target and you get a guaranteed hit?  If a centaur is the fastest moving character what stops it from just glueing itself to the back of an enemy player and not stop swinging his weapon until his enemy is dead?

From what I see on twitch players are not getting anywhere close to 90 FPS, so I haven't bothered playing yet.  

Please tell me that two pvp oriented built players, with equal gear and equal combat oriented branches in their skill trees, that the number one factor determining the victor is that players skill behind the keyboard.  

I don't expect "perfect" balance.  Not even million player Mobas have "perfect" balance, but I do expect an honest effort to be made to ensure no one is ridiculously overpowered, just because of the skills and race he chooses.  

This game wants 1/3 skill 1/3 training 1/3 gear.  And by easy to aim I mean the abilities are for the most part very lenient on what counts as a hit. 

The most important thing to remember is that this is not an esport, it is becoming more and more like an mmorpg, and is not about fair and equality, it is about imbalance and figuring out uneven situations.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 5/21/2017 at 3:29 AM, mortalman said:

Seeing as the different races of Crowfall are significantly different in size wouldn't each race hit box be different?  Seeing as Guinecean (Hamster Race) are by far the smallest race wouldn't they have a huge advantage over all other races considering they will be much harder to hit due to their small size?  Is anything being done to balance the differences in hitboxes?  Do taller races have to aim down slightly to hit a Guinecean in melee?  Do taller races have longer reach in melee?  How does differences in size effect the pvp scene right now in prealpha?

 

Everyone's capsule is the same size on the server. So as far as the combat engine is concerned a Guinacean is the same size as a Centaur and both are just as easy to hit. You can argue that the Guinacean has a visual advantage and may hide behind things more easily. But they are no more difficult to hit than anyone else.

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8 minutes ago, mhalashace said:

Everyone's capsule is the same size on the server. So as far as the combat engine is concerned a Guinacean is the same size as a Centaur and both are just as easy to hit. You can argue that the Guinacean has a visual advantage and may hide behind things more easily. But they are no more difficult to hit than anyone else.

Is this liable to change in the future? The size of hitboxes based on race, I mean.

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20 minutes ago, mhalashace said:

Everyone's capsule is the same size on the server. So as far as the combat engine is concerned a Guinacean is the same size as a Centaur and both are just as easy to hit. You can argue that the Guinacean has a visual advantage and may hide behind things more easily. But they are no more difficult to hit than anyone else.

oh :(

what about this from the time machine? or only relevant for animations and physics rather than combat hit boxness even at the time? swear you guys had said elsewhere things about hitbox variation

Quote

https://crowfall.com/en/news/animation-techno-mumbo-jumbo/

In many games the pill size is normalized across all characters; very small characters use the exact same pill as very large characters. We intend to scale our pill on a per archetype basis, which might lead to some advantages and disadvantages for various archetypes. There may even be areas that smaller characters can get to that larger ones don’t fit!

also visual advantage with giant nameplate/health bar hahaha ;p

also size varation maybe would of mattered when there were more projectile attacks flying around to intercept with body but now all raycast direction it seems ;p

Edited by Tinnis

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