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mortalman

Guinecean Hit Box Advantage?

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37 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

oh :(

what about this from the time machine?

https://crowfall.com/en/news/animation-techno-mumbo-jumbo/

In many games the pill size is normalized across all characters; very small characters use the exact same pill as very large characters. We intend to scale our pill on a per archetype basis, which might lead to some advantages and disadvantages for various archetypes. There may even be areas that smaller characters can get to that larger ones don’t fit!

Yeah, that was the intention two years ago. There were negative performance implications with having a lot of different types of capsules, so it got back-burnered. There's no immediate plans to revisit this that I'm aware of right now.

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35 minutes ago, mhalashace said:

Yeah, that was the intention two years ago. There were negative performance implications with having a lot of different types of capsules, so it got back-burnered. There's no immediate plans to revisit this that I'm aware of right now.

Alright, that's reasonable and can't be helped. I hope this is revisited, but if it's impossible, that's just how it is.

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1 hour ago, mhalashace said:

Everyone's capsule is the same size on the server. So as far as the combat engine is concerned a Guinacean is the same size as a Centaur and both are just as easy to hit. You can argue that the Guinacean has a visual advantage and may hide behind things more easily. But they are no more difficult to hit than anyone else.

Thanks for confirmation; it was pretty easy to see when you jump on a g-dude and there is a gap of air between your feet and their head.  Jump on a templar and your feet are in their forehead.

@mortalman I suggest you stop watching twitch for the details of the game, and actually get in to just try it out.  As for the FPS, I think that 90 is unreasonable, and a steady 30 for hundreds of players on the screen is a good goal, with 60 during small skirmishes.  The game plays smooth for me, and I'm not on a high-end machine.

I think it's quite funny that people love the guinecean now, considering that a few months back they were unplayable.  But a dev has confirmed hitboxes are the same size, so the OP's question on will it make a difference has been answered; nope it won't.


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1 hour ago, mhalashace said:

Yeah, that was the intention two years ago. There were negative performance implications with having a lot of different types of capsules, so it got back-burnered. There's no immediate plans to revisit this that I'm aware of right now.

This is a massive change that no one knew about... why didn't you guys announce this?


Check out my youtube channel for testing gameplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-AgZ6mHOVObusemDVEXoA

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2 hours ago, Tinnis said:

oh :(

what about this from the time machine? or only relevant for animations and physics rather than combat hit boxness even at the time? swear you guys had said elsewhere things about hitbox variation

also visual advantage with giant nameplate/health bar hahaha ;p

also size varation maybe would of mattered when there were more projectile attacks flying around to intercept with body but now all raycast direction it seems ;p

I know they did as well, posting this in the developers forums and hopefully we get more answers on this but they will need to share the info with you since the devs forums is on info lock down from players .


Check out my youtube channel for testing gameplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-AgZ6mHOVObusemDVEXoA

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2 hours ago, YouTubejasonwivart said:

I know they did as well, posting this in the developers forums and hopefully we get more answers on this but they will need to share the info with you since the devs forums is on info lock down from players .

We need more clarification on this, we are getting potentially conflicting information right now.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 5/24/2017 at 0:20 PM, Teufel said:

 

@mortalman I suggest you stop watching twitch for the details of the game, and actually get in to just try it out.  As for the FPS, I think that 90 is unreasonable, and a steady 30 for hundreds of players on the screen is a good goal, with 60 during small skirmishes.  The game plays smooth for me, and I'm not on a high-end machine.

I think it's quite funny that people love the guinecean now, considering that a few months back they were unplayable.  But a dev has confirmed hitboxes are the same size, so the OP's question on will it make a difference has been answered; nope it won't.

Sir, your statement of a steady 30 fps on screen being a good goal absolutely disgusts me.  30 FPS does not just look bad, it's simply unplayable for any sort of action based game.  For me 30 frames per second looks like a slideshow when I'm intensely focused on a moving target.  60 frames per second looks blurry and is completely unacceptable for fast paced gaming.  90 FPS is better, but still unacceptable for my standards.  I consider 120fps+ to be playable, and roughly 300 to be optimal.  

I didn't pay hundreds of dollars for a a superior graphics card, and hundreds more to immerse my PC in 23 gallons of horse laxative, just to get pitiful console gaming framerates.  

Shame on you Teufel for stating 30 fps is in anyway acceptable for a pc gamer. The master race of pc gamers has always set ourselves to higher standards, and I suggest you do the same.   

I know the hard working developers at ArtCraft do not find 30 FPS acceptable, and I'm sure great efforts will be made to optimize Crowfall to ensure much higher framerates before launch. 

 

As far as all races having the same "hit capsule" I'm actually kind of happy about this because it will level the playing field considerably in PVP, and overall make this game more palatable to PVP oriented players such as myself.  However I do foresee problems with the Centaur race.  I would certainly hate to hit a Centaur in the ass, and not have it register as a "hit".  Either way, at 30 frames per second, you wouldn't really  know where that arrow landed when it struck a moving target.  

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1 hour ago, mortalman said:

Sir, your statement of a steady 30 fps on screen being a good goal absolutely disgusts me.  30 FPS does not just look bad, it's simply unplayable for any sort of action based game.  For me 30 frames per second looks like a slideshow when I'm intensely focused on a moving target.  60 frames per second looks blurry and is completely unacceptable for fast paced gaming.  90 FPS is better, but still unacceptable for my standards.  I consider 120fps+ to be playable, and roughly 300 to be optimal.  

I didn't pay hundreds of dollars for a a superior graphics card, and hundreds more to immerse my PC in 23 gallons of horse laxative, just to get pitiful console gaming framerates.  

Shame on you Teufel for stating 30 fps is in anyway acceptable for a pc gamer. The master race of pc gamers has always set ourselves to higher standards, and I suggest you do the same.   

I know the hard working developers at ArtCraft do not find 30 FPS acceptable, and I'm sure great efforts will be made to optimize Crowfall to ensure much higher framerates before launch. 

 

As far as all races having the same "hit capsule" I'm actually kind of happy about this because it will level the playing field considerably in PVP, and overall make this game more palatable to PVP oriented players such as myself.  However I do foresee problems with the Centaur race.  I would certainly hate to hit a Centaur in the ass, and not have it register as a "hit".  Either way, at 30 frames per second, you wouldn't really  know where that arrow landed when it struck a moving target.  

LOL 60FPS blurry, the vast majority of monitors only run at 60 Hz meaning on those any more than 60 FPS will do absolutely nothing, and anything above 144Hz barely exist and those few that does are like €400+($450+) in price, true 300Hz pretty sure that doesn't even exist as as such claiming 300FPS is optimal, shows you absolutely have know nothing of what you are speaking

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45 minutes ago, Gummiel said:

LOL 60FPS blurry, the vast majority of monitors only run at 60 Hz meaning on those any more than 60 FPS will do absolutely nothing, and anything above 144Hz barely exist and those few that does are like €400+($450+) in price, true 300Hz pretty sure that doesn't even exist as as such claiming 300FPS is optimal, shows you absolutely have know nothing of what you are speaking

You just took the troll bait fam.

 

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21 hours ago, Gummiel said:

LOL 60FPS blurry, the vast majority of monitors only run at 60 Hz meaning on those any more than 60 FPS will do absolutely nothing, and anything above 144Hz barely exist and those few that does are like €400+($450+) in price, true 300Hz pretty sure that doesn't even exist as as such claiming 300FPS is optimal, shows you absolutely have know nothing of what you are speaking

Most computer monitors do only run at 60hz, but most computers are not "gaming" computers.  60Hz maybe good for your spreadsheets at work, but true gamers are going to need a lot more out of there monitors.  Were not playing Eve Online here.  Crowfall is action oriented.  Most gaming monitors right now are 144 Hz, and the latest and greatest gaming monitors are now a true 240 Hz.  True 300Hz monitor, does not yet exist, but we will eventually see monitors that will sync with your framerate well over 240Hz. 

If you don't believe that you can use more than 60Hz, I highly suggest you get into Counter Strike.  Put in a few hundred hours on a decent 144Hz monitor, and then try playing on a 60hz screen.  The difference is astounding.  

And No Zach.... I am not "trolling"

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6 hours ago, mortalman said:

Most computer monitors do only run at 60hz, but most computers are not "gaming" computers.  60Hz maybe good for your spreadsheets at work, but true gamers are going to need a lot more out of there monitors.  Were not playing Eve Online here.  Crowfall is action oriented.  Most gaming monitors right now are 144 Hz, and the latest and greatest gaming monitors are now a true 240 Hz.  True 300Hz monitor, does not yet exist, but we will eventually see monitors that will sync with your framerate well over 240Hz. 

If you don't believe that you can use more than 60Hz, I highly suggest you get into Counter Strike.  Put in a few hundred hours on a decent 144Hz monitor, and then try playing on a 60hz screen.  The difference is astounding.  

And No Zach.... I am not "trolling"

Show me your statistics then that the vast majority of gamers have 144Hz monitors, I would be very surprised if that were the case, and even if they did they likely wouldn't have a good enough comp to get to the 144FPS anyway in most games, getting both a 144Hz monitor and a computer to be able to pull that amount of frames, is no cheap feat, way above the vast majority of gamers budget

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I believe it was Tyrant that once said this game is for hardcore gamers, in the context he said it he was referring to people that get good gaming performance hardware.  I don't think this includes people with 60 refresh rate CRT monitors. 

Also 60hz is blurry for those accustomed to much higher.  I can easily tell the difference between refresh rates on monitors and frame rates in games.  Anything under 100 at this point seems primitive to me.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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34 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I believe it was Tyrant that once said this game is for hardcore gamers, in the context he said it he was referring to people that get good gaming performance hardware.  I don't think this includes people with 60 refresh rate CRT monitors. 

Also 60hz is blurry for those accustomed to much higher.  I can easily tell the difference between refresh rates on monitors and frame rates in games.  Anything under 100 at this point seems primitive to me.

I cant argue about high performance gaming (since my country prices are pretty high for that stuff) but i believe we are NOT at the point where games are supposed to be run on super high end machines. Like said above gaming at 60 FPS is already above the norm.

Talking about 300 fps is bullsocks and @mortalman is just flauting his big ego. At that point is more probable that what you are feeling is just placebo effect than the actual difference it brings. Playing in a 144 hz (This actually matters a lot) with 150 fps is already pretty damn good.

 

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1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

I cant argue about high performance gaming (since my country prices are pretty high for that stuff) but i believe we are NOT at the point where games are supposed to be run on super high end machines. Like said above gaming at 60 FPS is already above the norm.

Talking about 300 fps is bullsocks and @mortalman is just flauting his big ego. At that point is more probable that what you are feeling is just placebo effect than the actual difference it brings. Playing in a 144 hz (This actually matters a lot) with 150 fps is already pretty damn good.

 

Well like I said, in the context it was said, and them fully accepting their product as being a niche game, it seemed they were going for a more hardcore performance based crowd as far as system specs go.  That doesn't mean they would completely leave less than ideal setups to fend for themselves though.

That being said, while this was a thought they conveyed early in development, it has also been seen that performance has been pretty rough, and they've talked about goals of 30fps or 60 fps.

30 would be pretty tragic, 60 is still pretty bad but playable, let's hope they can optimize to get up to around 120 or 144.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 22/5/2017 at 7:08 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

This game isn't built to be balanced, and for some of us old school pvpers the imbalances are what made things interesting.

Exactly this, i like to see different pros and cons for every race since they remove the class restriction, at least races should have different stats, size and hitbox.

For example i like to see the hamster race with less reach and less hp but more speed, while centaurs with less magic power but more strenght and stamina, and so on. Diversity is the best, balance can be come along if a race/class combo result to be too overpowered.

I think a 15% difference in stats between races is a good compromise.

ps: personally, i will play the race i like more aestetically with my preferred class, and i will accept the unbalance caused by race diversity. Is my choice and my freedom.

Edited by kdchan

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On 5/26/2017 at 10:06 PM, mortalman said:

Most computer monitors do only run at 60hz, but most computers are not "gaming" computers.  60Hz maybe good for your spreadsheets at work, but true gamers are going to need a lot more out of there monitors.  Were not playing Eve Online here.  Crowfall is action oriented.  Most gaming monitors right now are 144 Hz, and the latest and greatest gaming monitors are now a true 240 Hz.  True 300Hz monitor, does not yet exist, but we will eventually see monitors that will sync with your framerate well over 240Hz. 

If you don't believe that you can use more than 60Hz, I highly suggest you get into Counter Strike.  Put in a few hundred hours on a decent 144Hz monitor, and then try playing on a 60hz screen.  The difference is astounding.  

And No Zach.... I am not "trolling"

Knew it was you soon as i read horse laxative :P


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On 5/21/2017 at 3:29 AM, mortalman said:

Seeing as the different races of Crowfall are significantly different in size wouldn't each race hit box be different?  Seeing as Guinecean (Hamster Race) are by far the smallest race wouldn't they have a huge advantage over all other races considering they will be much harder to hit due to their small size?  Is anything being done to balance the differences in hitboxes?  Do taller races have to aim down slightly to hit a Guinecean in melee?  Do taller races have longer reach in melee?  How does differences in size effect the pvp scene right now in prealpha?

 

Too early to say if it'll be a problem. If it's anything like Shadowbane different races had different stat caps, different race specific disciplines, different race specific gear and so on and that's what they used to achieve asymmetric balance. For all we know they might be compensating for the small hitbox by giving them less HP or something. I'll reserve judgement until the system is implemented.

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People are poorly made socksting all over that @mortalman guy but actually having FPS significantly higher than monitor framerate gives a far more even and smooth experience, he's definitely right. 

That being said, 300 is a custard stupid target for this game. 300 is barely needed in a precise game like CS:GO, anything above 40, preferably around 60, would be acceptable for large scale fights, and 120 should be the target for small skirmishes.

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On 5/24/2017 at 0:37 PM, YouTubejasonwivart said:

This is a massive change that no one knew about... why didn't you guys announce this?

It's fine.

Normalizing the hit-box is small potatoes measured against why they did it.  Not really that objectionable.


“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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12 hours ago, kairus said:

People are poorly made socksting all over that @mortalman guy but actually having FPS significantly higher than monitor framerate gives a far more even and smooth experience, he's definitely right. 

That being said, 300 is a custard stupid target for this game. 300 is barely needed in a precise game like CS:GO, anything above 40, preferably around 60, would be acceptable for large scale fights, and 120 should be the target for small skirmishes.

Actually this isn't true either, ideally you want a high refresh rate monitor synced up perfectly with your frame rate, that would give you the best smoothness.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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