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makkon

Resource cost need serious investigating and

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Posted (edited)

changes...as fast as you can...

why? lets see.

input:

  1. different resource was created around archetypes to make em unique
  2. archetypes are not ingame anymore but their mechanics are still there.
  3. alot of disciplines implemented and much more will be in future. most of em are free for all
  4. alot of disciplines has spammable mechanics
  5. alot of disciplines has strange but unique mechanics (for example "hit me" passive, how it will be working for classic druid or for pip mechanic?)
  6. advanced weapon power cost (see below why it is listed here)
  7. hp pools. remember lol or dota? yes, they know difference between melee and range at/tanks and dps

 

lets see...

______________________________

first I want to discuss about weapon stat - power cost multiplier

basic weapon example:

brw3NVH.png

+20% more resource cost. its ok. from ppl and some tests I get what every 0.1 power cost ~ 10% more skills cost.

advanced weapon example:

.eJwNy0sOhCAMANC7cADK8LHgbQgSNFFL2s5q4t3

+0,495 (almost +50% power cost...)

and more

a5QgWld.pngHDMJkwo.png

so, early ppl get all pips to min-max damage, now if they did it, they get such +50% to cost weapon. hm lets see who do not care about cost? rangers, confessors (easy to return), duelists, druids, templars. so, they can ignore this stat on weapon and min-max their damage. what about all other classes? Tolerate

BRAVO, best Variability in DAWORLD, best motivation to craft something

and one more from experienced crafter using high tier ore:

eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2kuZ3lhem8uY29tL2Jk

ppl told me they can get 0.01 to resource cost...if they focus only on this stat.

for sure, this strange aspect of crafting and game mechanic need some fix

____________________________________

lets see some basic resource mechanics:

lego and champion using rage - slowly generating in fight mode, generating from attacking, sometimes from getting damage (do not play for a long time those classes)

confessors using mana - huge pool, can be restored using skill, can be generating via LMB and some passives. usually they have it to the end of fight.

rangers using energy - poor freebie resource atm. while in bow mode - huge regen, while in daggers mode - consuming for action.

myrmidons using fury - passive generating only, consuming on everything even on LMB

knights using stamina - most crasy idea in game dev I saw. ok, this is same as fury but do not consume on LMB (knight mostly never sprint, coz he is asthmatic class). much more faster regen than fury

druid - boring to list it coz they have access to same mechanic as ranger have...

and templar + duelist - pips. generating from action constants. if duelists have not so big problems in generating it coz they can burrow and use some passives, templars have not problem in generating pips only vs melee.

 

what do you think about disciplines and those mechanics? right, huge disbalance. especially atm when some of disciplines only for some classes.

knights, myrmidons in da ass. myrmi in da huge black ass. I hear lego also have some problems but can't test all things.

also, for example, confessor can get all tank passives and skills and become healer and tank without any hurt to damage and mobility. what about melee classes? they suck (I do not count zerg on zerg).

as myrmi I can only build LMB builds coz 2 skills and out of fury whole combat. I tried everything - 20% weapon efficiency, hit me passive, blood pact and such. why I even should chose what I didnt like while some AT fight at distance smappimng skills?

 

think about it also, some classes poorly unplayable atm and they will be such without ur hands.

some glass cannons (dps AT) more tanky than tanks AT, this is pretty strange. some support healers more dps than dps classes

check out videos and look at the resource pool and check how many skills guyz using:

example ranger (full resource all time, spam):

example confessor (long fight out of mana but can keep fight):

 

example duelist (no problems with pips)

 

and such, there was alot of videos around already. I saw one with myrmi before this single OP combo fixed (in next patch)...out of fury all time.

 

_________________________

HP pools. shortly - it it pretty strange what confessor/duelist have almost the same HP as myrmidon/champion

pretty strange what 5k HP duelist who can output 2k from single crit can also get much more crit chance from passive skill tree and escape using 1 button.

also he can be same tanky as knight. what is it?

I really dont know how you guyz plaining to balance disciplines coz current basic kit mechanics already without any balance for year

_________________________

 

Edited by makkon

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6 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

i agree

but to add: druids ARE subject to 'power modifier' stat. and essence is one of the most terrible resource systems. it is nothing like ranger

yea. easiest way to fix all this classes - bring back mana for all except duelist

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Posted (edited)

Druid is massively impacted by the power cost multiplier. That seemed to be a point of confusion in the live stream the other day as well, but i can assure you it kills Druid's essence pool.

My only staff has a .75 PCM and it takes nearly half my bar to cast a single series of AE and Bear.

Ya."Sweet, I did like 900 damage and missed with bear! Time to swap trays and slowly hooligan around with heals I may or may not need until I can use another ability or 2 from death tray. Oh, darn, he's full health already. Sad face."

Edited by coolwaters

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12 minutes ago, DravoiX said:

Would also say all classes one rescource would be nice :)

i disagree with that, having different types of resources keeps the game fresh/interesting, but they need to be balanced

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Posted (edited)

So I just crafted some Paired Axes, I'm not training in crafting, but I had the pots etc. up.

Look at this piece of trash:
eccf514df63b42f6287f5fb0c6e8a5ed.png

Everything I do empties my Fury bar hahaha

Now on top of this, this piece of trash costs 12 metal bars and 2 stitched leather, that's more than a 2 handed weapon?

Edited by Yumx

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Yumx said:

So I just crafted some Paired Axes, I'm not training in crafting, but I had the pots etc. up.

Look at this piece of trash:
eccf514df63b42f6287f5fb0c6e8a5ed.png

Everything I do empties my Fury bar hahaha

Now on top of this, this piece of trash costs 12 metal bars and 2 stitched leather, that's more than a 2 handed weapon?

Ah the legend of the "paired axes of the asthmatic midget"! Nearly 200% power cost. Awesomes.

Edited by Tinnis

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, elvo said:

i disagree with that, having different types of resources keeps the game fresh/interesting, but they need to be balanced

ok, they can add one more unknown stat named something like "class miltiplier resource cost"

so, they can balance around this stat which will be unique for all classes and for some of disciplines.

I know, mana for all will be bad idea but this is easiest way

10 minutes ago, Yumx said:

Look at this piece of trash:
eccf514df63b42f6287f5fb0c6e8a5ed.png

Everything I do empties my Fury bar hahaha


hahahaha. best example indaworld.

"1-swing axe"

Edited by makkon

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6 minutes ago, makkon said:

I know, mana for all will be bad idea but this is easiest way

Why just add a discipline / passiv like Relentless for  Mana, Then you have (Rage Mana)
Adding a passiv that Healing or Attacks give you mana Druid Essence funktion ...

it would be easy to build  a discipline / passiv that transform mana in other Rescources.

But Old RPGs had also only Mana and they worked :)

still want old mana pots :D

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, DravoiX said:

Why just add a discipline / passiv like Relentless for  Mana, Then you have (Rage Mana)
Adding a passiv that Healing or Attacks give you mana Druid Essence funktion ...

it would be easy to build  a discipline / passiv that transform mana in other Rescources.

But Old RPGs had also only Mana and they worked :)

still want old mana pots :D

this happens when first implemented idea replaced by another without reworking first

btw you write me about duelist 5k crits =) ppl crying about myrmi 50% hp C dmg :D:D

druid with shield? pff why not =)

glass cannon with heal and 40% less damage? easy

why not bring mana for all

Edited by makkon

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42 minutes ago, makkon said:

ok, they can add one more unknown stat named something like "class miltiplier resource cost"

so, they can balance around this stat which will be unique for all classes and for some of disciplines.

These are the types of ideas we need. It is nice to have some classes or better, some SKILLS, use different resources, like pips, but trying to make it unique for every single archetype is just...why? Make each class play differently by managing their kit not by adding mechanics!

A big problem I see is that WEAPONS should not have a base PCM due to the problem YUMX posted; instead, you should be able to either: 

  • use experimentation points on something like Sheen (I am wondering if they missed a "0" YUMX? Like maybe it should be 1.094? That would make more sense)
  • Use special crafting mats like a new ore or wood to imbue PCM

TBH, when I play support druid I just heal, swap to electricity, use spark to drain Essence in 1s, then swap back. If I try to focus on damage and healing, I am not going to do either one that well. I do wish Scimitar druid had at least 1 base kit skill to regen though...or shield...

I got it! How about a druid shield (LIKE THORNS but with some absorb/mitigation) that increases Essence when hit! 

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4 minutes ago, Honorclaim said:

These are the types of ideas we need. It is nice to have some classes or better, some SKILLS, use different resources, like pips, but trying to make it unique for every single archetype is just...why? Make each class play differently by managing their kit not by adding mechanics!

I got it! How about a druid shield (LIKE THORNS but with some absorb/mitigation) that increases Essence when hit! 

this can be done after some fixes in craft. coz this stat wont help with such +200% weapons.

thorns - most useless thing in this game coz

1) no dmg

2) required passive/active slots

3) can be only for druids coz it is their passive skill tree mechanics

4) generate soul power...

p4 is most harmful thing thorns bring to attacker. and yes, this is generating soul power, I tested it some time ago

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How about a primary resource, Mana, and a secondary resource dependant on the class, Pips/Essence/Rage. May simplify some things, but this isn't a fully formed thought yet.

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So I definitely 100% agree that PCM is not an awesome stat. And totally gimps some classes more than others (hello pip classes). 

That said, I have found ways to make resource work for every class that I thought it impacted most. The problem is just that you have to devote so much of your build and playstyle to resource management that you miss out on being able to take extra defenses, offense, or support/control. 

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As a Knight I have been playing with BOTH active and passive Power Cost Multiplier reduction skills, when my weapons have averaged .4-.6 PCM...

As a Myrm the same can be said, I feel I spend most fights just waiting to charge up resource and hoping to get a use out of it, it's super painful with both of these. As a Knight I must choose between Blocking (for a very miniscule amount of time) or trying to get a Combat Combo off, with Myrm I use all my Fury and then run away to refuel...it isn't fun.

Heard Druids complaining about similar issues with regards to their essence.

I get gating things, behind resource and behind cooldowns...but when your class is SO resource starved compared to others it is frustrating. At least Templars being starved is due to skill of them or their opponents, Knights and Myrms just have to deal with it as part of their 'mechanics'

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17 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

everyone should probably be given pips or stamina

i dont think removing mana, rage etc is a good choise design wise, i mean how dumb is a tradítional caster that does not use mana?

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