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makkon

Resource cost need serious investigating and

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I still think Power Cost Multiplier should be in the -0.1:+0.1 range. If you get a super good/bad roll it is okay to get maybe +-0.2 PCM.

This is supposed to be a Min-Max choice so it should not be as ridiculous as +0.4 PCM. That is stupid and can really gimp some classes.

It should be a choice. Do i decrease PCM or add xxx? That is how you should think and not just think about not getting a ridiculous PCM. Right now high PCM equals trash weapon.

The build i am planning, for example, would benefit a lot of low PCM. I think PCM is a good idea but it needs some serious balancing.

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12 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I still think Power Cost Multiplier should be in the -0.1:+0.1 range. If you get a super good/bad roll it is okay to get maybe +-0.2 PCM.

This is supposed to be a Min-Max choice so it should not be as ridiculous as +0.4 PCM. That is stupid and can really gimp some classes.

It should be a choice. Do i decrease PCM or add xxx? That is how you should think and not just think about not getting a ridiculous PCM. Right now high PCM equals trash weapon.

The build i am planning, for example, would benefit a lot of low PCM. I think PCM is a good idea but it needs some serious balancing.

I would agree, it seems quite silly that basic crude weapons have better PCM than the Advanced versions using better materials in greater quantities. Hell, I've actually used Basic Weapons on Knight, Myrmidon and Centaur due to the PCM being so much better. This is also a reason Blood Pact is often used, because it hurts a lot when you can barely get 1-2 skill chains off before needing to recharge.

Also, tooltips and abilities need investigation, as they can be...wonky. There should be no reason I am seeing differing resource values remaining after using skill chains with the same combined resource cost. Or that a skill chain uses more resource than a different skill chain-that according to the tooltip should have a lesser cost!
 


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On 6/4/2017 at 4:58 PM, makkon said:

thorns - most useless thing in this game coz

4) generate soul power...

p4 is most harmful thing thorns bring to attacker. and yes, this is generating soul power, I tested it some time ago

thorns (and the barrier) IS useless, but it won't charge your attacker's soulpower faster

i tested :)

punching with and without thorns - both took 30 seconds to charge 50%

 

 


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12 hours ago, Tinnis said:

thorns (and the barrier) IS useless, but it won't charge your attacker's soulpower faster

i tested :)

punching with and without thorns - both took 30 seconds to charge 50%

 

 

it was before. mb they fix it.

anyway soul power also need some balance coz 100dmg from LMB != 2k crit from skill


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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23 hours ago, scornoflife said:

I would agree, it seems quite silly that basic crude weapons have better PCM than the Advanced versions using better materials in greater quantities. Hell, I've actually used Basic Weapons on Knight, Myrmidon and Centaur due to the PCM being so much better. This is also a reason Blood Pact is often used, because it hurts a lot when you can barely get 1-2 skill chains off before needing to recharge.

Also, tooltips and abilities need investigation, as they can be...wonky. There should be no reason I am seeing differing resource values remaining after using skill chains with the same combined resource cost. Or that a skill chain uses more resource than a different skill chain-that according to the tooltip should have a lesser cost!
 

Indeed, the base should be no additional PCM, but you can experiment to increase it for more pips, or decrease it. Currently, I just see no reason to have a lesser stat on what should be an objectively better weapon than the default.

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Actually I confirmed that power cost modified DOES effect pip users. 

I made a really, really bad Templar sword out of slag that had a power cost modifier of over 2.0. I was no longer able to cast Banner with a single pip, it took two. I switched between a basic weapon with a 0.2 modifier and my advanced with a 2.0 modifier and I was able to cast with 1 pip while using basic but it took 2 pips to cast using the advanced weapon. I think pip users it rounds down but once you get beyond 2.0 it will make things cost additional pips. Still a lot more forgiving than other classes though. 

Overall the mechanic needs adjusting. 

Edited by blazzen

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47 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Actually I confirmed that power cost modified DOES effect pip users. 

I made a really, really bad Templar sword out of slag that had a power cost modifier of over 2.0. I was no longer able to cast Banner with a single pip, it took two. I switched between a basic weapon with a 0.2 modifier and my advanced with a 2.0 modifier and I was able to cast with 1 pip while using basic but it took 2 pips to cast using the advanced weapon. I think pip users it rounds down but once you get beyond 2.0 it will make things cost additional pips. Still a lot more forgiving than other classes though. 

Overall the mechanic needs adjusting. 

even more worst thing to know =)

8 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

lol. They nerfed Thorns soul power generation huh?

It is well and truly useless now.


why? now you do not generate soul to enemy so fast

 

edit, found old video which show with and without thorn soul generating. 2 ticks instead 1

 

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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I really like the resource system from TES(O). Health, magicka and stamina. Magical powers cost magicka, physical powers and actions (like dodging) cost stamina. Some rare powers cost health. Even if you were a mage, you still needed to mind your stamina for dodging, blocking and a few stam powers. Same with stam guys. You would still have a couple powers that used magicka in your bar, even if you didn't need to maximize that stat. Simple and effective, optimal resource management was a huge part of early days ESO. Truly separated good from bad players. 


 

 

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1 hour ago, blazzen said:

Actually I confirmed that power cost modified DOES effect pip users. 

I made a really, really bad Templar sword out of slag that had a power cost modifier of over 2.0. I was no longer able to cast Banner with a single pip, it took two. I switched between a basic weapon with a 0.2 modifier and my advanced with a 2.0 modifier and I was able to cast with 1 pip while using basic but it took 2 pips to cast using the advanced weapon. I think pip users it rounds down but once you get beyond 2.0 it will make things cost additional pips. Still a lot more forgiving than other classes though. 

Overall the mechanic needs adjusting. 

I am sure the Devs said pips classes shouldnt be affected by PCM, so that is probably a bug and worth posting on the bug forums.

I will try to find the Dev quote.

EDIT:

" Also PiP users don't interact with the power cost multiplier. (creates more choice and options for those who don't have great weapons) " - TBlair

Here: https://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/17068-passive-powers-and-you-official-discussion-thread/&page=2#comment-343598

 

Edited by BarriaKarl

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I'd like to see all the archetypes use a fast regenerating resource (because using your abilities is fun, and not using your abilities is not fun). They can keep the alternative resources like essence and pips but they'd take more of an augmentation role.

  • It be easier to understand when you're dealing with disciplines and skill lines. Right now resource are kinda a huge mess.
  • Classes will still keep their identity with the alternative or "augmentation" resources (pips, essence).
  • Less shenanigans and most likely easier to balance around.

Power Cast Modifiers seems completely unnecessary to me. I know they want to give crafters something else to think about, but I think they've got enough of that already to be honest. PCM sounds more like a "you having fun guys? well fck off with that, you can't have fun!" mechanic.

Edited by Helix

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the advantage of stamina [pre dodge pips] a.l.a. knight for everyone:

you make people choose from a consistent pool between actions of attacking, defense, mobility.


@coolwaters pips aren't the best - but imagine a druid where you generated up to 5 pips from using your cooldown only death powers - and life powers required pips to use [either one at a time or multi point scaling effects on each power - so less frequent but higher impact power use and utility choice] </done>

you could also add bonus effects/damage to death powers when you use them with 0 pips [e.g. after being in life tray] for further tactical depth and power use choice


tying everyone to pips also ties power use to combat - which rage never does. rage is just a slow mana these days.

currently you have the classes that either start full or empty and the problems that causes

templar is entirely reliant on enemy being an idiot to be effective / use their powers for the most part (as was the berserking myrm in his prime)


1 hour ago, coolwaters said:

But that doesn't mean Thorns is not completely worthless now.

11 damage....

its only use was to dizzy down an attacking duelist go for broke.

however now we can't even do that with duration/cooldown changes. and duelists will just agent ranged stun you and melee ambush these days anyway

the multiple thorns runes also pointless [and only apply the effects to yourself not even to whole group]

Edited by Tinnis

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2 minutes ago, Helix said:

I'd like to see all the archetypes use a fast regenerating resource (because using your abilities is fun, and not using your abilities is not fun). They can keep the alternative resources like essence and pips but they'd take more of an augmentation role.

  • It be easier to understand when you're dealing with disciplines and skill lines. Right now resource are kinda a huge mess.
  • Classes will still keep their identity with the alternative or "augmentation" resources (pips, essence).
  • Less shenanigans and most likely easier to balance around.

Even for Pip users, just decrease the amount of Mana they have and up their regeneration ability, and that's basically a pip, but now it is more intuitive with Disciplines and can be modified based on this and that.

With Druid, just make Essence like a "Overheat" bar. Master of Scimitar then just removes the Essence/Overheat mechanic from the Druid, leaving them with just Mana.

Rage can stay, and simply become an alternative type of Mana. Its numerical values should be more easily adjusted than other resources.

These are at least how I could see it working.

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I generally see two issues here:

1)  PCM doesn't affect all classes 'equally':  negating an entire weapon stat for certain classes is extremely powerful (exception apparently being an un-modified 'grey' quality weapon), as well as a seeming disproportionate burden on some classes.

2) The curve on which 'normal' lies is non-intuitive and seems out of line with expectations.  +/- 0.0 would seem to be the 'norm' people would expect as a 'baseline', which is not achievable under blue quality under the majority of normal circumstances.  While I recognize there are four tiers above "common" (white), they should be increasingly more rare, and at the same time wonderful.  Considering the very limiting factor of experimentation pips, higher quality already have the built-in limitation mechanic of having more possibilities than you could ever spend pips, the "steep" curve with PCM seems out of line.  I do not seem to be the only person to hold that opinion.

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PCM AND DRUIDS

power cost modifer is bad both for damage centric and healing centric druids. both sides are effected.

due to the lack of weapon scaling and meaningful stats - a druid wanting to focus on healing is actually penalised for using an advanced staff - extra essence generation for literally no benefit.

also illustrates the issues with current essence yin and yang values and the flow issues with generation and spending and the value of certain powers when you compare them. i did not even include spark here.

IyLKEhI.png


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