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Yoink

Dizzy down + Harvesting = Lame?

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I sort of think dizzy down is a dumb mechanic already but don't really mind it all that much. Its just something annoying to deal with. But with the zoomed in harvesting + dizzy down it seems like its just too much of a penalty to me. What are your thoughts?

@srathor LoL

 

 

Edited by Yoink

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I don't like the dizzy down mechanic under any circumstances, but I've come to agree with the decision to restrict the field of view while harvesting. 

Why would it be good for conflict generation if every harvester could see you coming and just run away?

It wouldn't be good for PVP. It would be bad for PVP.

 

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There are some things I love about this game, some things I like, some things I tolerate, some things I dislike, and some things I hate. 

Dizzydown while harvesting I hate. But it really does not matter. Opportunity costs are killing the game for me. 

You get free ambushes on a gatherer who has zero chance against you. Dizzydown just makes it even more pathetic.

Every god damn negative thing in the game is against gatherers. 

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3 hours ago, srathor said:


Every god damn negative thing in the game is against gatherers. 

I would disagree.  Everything negative is not against gatherers but everything stacked against gatherers is a huge negative, almost to the point where it is insurmountable.  I think getting rid of the down part of dizzy down while gathering would be a fair start to compromise.

i understand this is a PvP game and can accept that.  With that being said they need to re-evaluate the importance of gathering/crafting and the mechanics as from a management perspective it is far more beneficial to allocate resources into hunting gatherers than it is to protecting  them.

Ultimately my concern is that the current game design is pitted so strongly against gatherers that the game will not sustain them and create a "trickle up" game dying effect to the PvP aspect due to durability loss + crafting loss vs gatherering.

Either way I am having fun and still love me some CF.  I do think that in the current game design gathering is by far going to be the most difficult and important role, but we do still have a long way to go in development.  Hopefully some of the current disciplines get some nerfs and some future ones apply to gathering sustainability/survival.

Good luck all and I hope to see you in game.

Edited by Mr. Kurtz

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6 hours ago, coolwaters said:

I don't like the dizzy down mechanic under any circumstances, but I've come to agree with the decision to restrict the field of view while harvesting. 

Why would it be good for conflict generation if every harvester could see you coming and just run away?

It wouldn't be good for PVP. It would be bad for PVP.

 

I would prefer if there was two "States", but I know Todd hates those.  Focused harvesting, where your view is in, and you get a buff to mining skills, and unfocused, where you can look around but do a worse job of it.

One for when your alone and need to be alert, and one when you have a team watching your back.

I have heard that the zoom is causing physical discomfort and nausea in some people, so I would err on the side of health issues and let people keep the view back. Maybe not focused in, and only view locked in a specific direction.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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4 hours ago, srathor said:

There are some things I love about this game, some things I like, some things I tolerate, some things I dislike, and some things I hate. 

Dizzydown while harvesting I hate. But it really does not matter. Opportunity costs are killing the game for me. 

You get free ambushes on a gatherer who has zero chance against you. Dizzydown just makes it even more pathetic.

Every god damn negative thing in the game is against gatherers. 

Its almost as if there was a deliberate design choice that gathering shouldn't be viable as a solo activity...

FFS, this isn't that complicated

  • Crafters have a dependency on gatherers for raw materials
  • Gatherers have a dependency on PVPs for protection
  • PVPers have a dependency on crafters for good quality gear

Srathor, your problem since day one is that you are trying to play a game that is deliberately designed for group play as an individual.

Either wise up and join a group, quit the game, or stop trying to make fetch happen...

 

 

 

 

 


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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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Quote
  • Gatherers have a dependency on PVPs for protection

Gatherers are just pvpers that have the responsibility thrust upon them because no one wants to deal with that poorly made socks. Trust me, I guarantee the majority of people who gather would rather be doing something else with their time. You think fruit pickers in RL like that poorly made socks? This is like that, except we're doing it in a virtual environment and we're paying them for the privilege instead of the other way around.

Dizzy down is an archaic left over.

Edited by Helix

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6 minutes ago, Helix said:

deal with that poorly made socks

happens every goddamn time!

 

related to the topic: i think the knockdown has to go, the dizzy down is o.k but you cant retaliate the knockdown on the second hit, which results in a lost 1v1/ lost fight 80% of the time


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to add to this .... look at a Duelist hitting a Gatherer.  They open up with a dizzy down .. while I am dizzy they generate their pips them Pepper Shot to another CC ... and then I think its look Anhrez time 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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I don't like the auto-zooming camera. It's not even a gameplay design issue for me -  it gives me a headache. 

The Knockdown part of DizzyDown also seems too harsh to me, in general not just for the harvesting situation. Dizzy should be a soft CC like a snare - a long duration knockdown with extra damage is too hard to recover from.

 


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Obviously, this mechanic exists to incentivize gatherers to not go it alone. If you have someone watching your back, you're fine.

This is a non-problem. 

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I agree on both points that dizzy down should be removed (it was originally implemented during the rooted combat era to prevent people from dancing around a campfire in hunger dome to regen which is no longer an issue) and that it's even more lame to harvesters. I believe harvesters should be considered "in combat" while harvesting. 

I brought up both of these points on the developers forum back in April but haven't received much of a response to date. 

Edited by blazzen

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7 minutes ago, blazzen said:

I agree on both points that dizzy down should be removed (it was originally implemented during the rooted combat era to prevent people from dancing around a campfire in hunger dome to regen which is no longer an issue) and that it's even more lame to harvesters. I believe harvesters should be considered "in combat" while harvesting. 

I brought up both of these points on the developers forum back in April but haven't received much of a response to date. 

In combat with a weapon switch time, (packing the pick and pulling the sword), would be a reasonable compromise I think.

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Honestly I think that video highlights the power of the Confessor more than anything else.  Did anyone else see the 360° Fire Wave?  Do confessors even have to aim?  Just spin your camera and all your spells go everywhere I guess.

But, on topic, removing the stun from dizzy-down would be a good start.

However, right now, if the gatherer can run away, they win.  That means that the entire thing comes down to mobility balance.  For example, if I run around on a Templar trying to kill a Confessor who is harvesting, even if I dizzy-down him, there is no way to kill them (through this lens dizzy-down needs to be buffed).  At this point, it becomes a math equation of run speed/mobility skills that determine if you can kill someone.  Is that fun for anyone?

Pick the class with the most mobility for gathering.  Then, all the gankers have to play the class with the most mobility too.  Turns in to a mobility arms race that is just silly.  Now, this isn't true 100% of the time; mobility doesn't help if you get bursted/stun-locked (although the best burst classes have the best mobility?).

Obviously this will be MUCH better once running away isn't a "win" condition for the gatherer (i.e. pack animals).  Will also be interesting to see how the need to run gathering disciplines impacts this.  In any case, I think we need to get to a point where a surprise attacker has an advantage, but not an overwhelming one.

Seems silly talking about the current state of the gathering/ganking situation.  Maybe just focus on what it will be?  Can we even have a useful discussion on that?

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2 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

Honestly I think that video highlights the power of the Confessor more than anything else.  

Duelist is by far the best harvester ganker. Stealth is king for ganking and a good duelist can kill you before the dizzy down and ensuing stun lock wears off. 

The primary issue is dizzy down. 

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3 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Duelist is by far the best harvester ganker. Stealth is king for ganking and a good duelist can kill you before the dizzy down and ensuing stun lock wears off. 

The primary issue is dizzy down. 

Not sure how dizzy-down in the primary issue when only 2 classes can actually abuse it.  It is an issue, but not the primary one in this situation; it is the crazy burst damage/stuns/mobility of 2 classes.  Again, if it is not a confessor or duelist ganking you, then they don't kill you in the dizzy-down stun combo.  Then you just run away (assuming the mobility math equation is in your favor).  The entire thing is binary and wonderful.  Again, we need the real gatherer system in place to even make progress in discussing the issue of gathering vs. ganking.  Right now, we are just complaining about class balance through a different lens; a magnifying one.

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I don't see how Dizzy Down affects harvesters more harshly than anyone else you can catch out of combat, but it does add incentive for duelists not to just go out of combat in the midst of taking damage to re-stealth.

As far as the zoom-in for harvesting goes, it really only affects those harvesting alone, to whom I can only say, "get a group or get used to dying."


Hi, I'm moneda.

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1 minute ago, Kirchhoff said:

Not sure how dizzy-down in the primary issue when only 2 classes can actually abuse it.  It is an issue, but not the primary one in this situation; it is the crazy burst damage/stuns/mobility of 2 classes.  Again, if it is not a confessor or duelist ganking you, then they don't kill you in the dizzy-down stun combo.  Then you just run away (assuming the mobility math equation is in your favor).  The entire thing is binary and wonderful.  Again, we need the real gatherer system in place to even make progress in discussing the issue of gathering vs. ganking.  Right now, we are just complaining about class balance through a different lens; a magnifying one.

Ranger can use the rapid fire arrows to instantly trigger dizzy down on an unsuspecting target from range. 

Myrmidon can net from 30m and then net pull to trigger the dizzy down and have the target dizzy downed right in front of them for easy killing. 

Shall I go on? 

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