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Zachchaffin

My Death Star sized worry about Crowfalls PvP campaign

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Let's pretend that i'm a guild master in a Guild Vs Guild campaign. Me and my 50 guild-mates have spent a lot of time and effort to build a keep, and control the local POI's. what's to stop a neighboring guild (from a different time zone) from waiting until we're all (or mostly) offline before attacking our bases and destroying all of our hard work without any way for us to stop them? Is there a system in place where we can recruit soldiers? i know thralls can act as shop keepers, but can they be soldiers? if so i seriously doubt they'll be common/strong enough to defend against a persistent attacker. If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

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Welcome to the forum.

It was mentioned that some thralls may be used as guards. But thats more or less some kind of hearsay and we don't know any details and it's not very likely that this will change soon.

If you are afraid that you may not be able to guard your campaign stronghold 24/7, you should only choose campaigns with a ruleset that allows you to set attack windows (imagine a tree of live that is shielding your stronghold but has to refresh itself some hours a day - and won't protect the stronghold during this time - and you can more or less define when this will be). As far as we know up to now, something like this will be possible, depending on the worlds ruleset. But again, we don't know a lot of details yet.


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54 minutes ago, Zachchaffin said:

If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

Lets just pretend that is what you are suppose to do.  Unless you are a carebear, then you initiate Stare sequence.


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58 minutes ago, Zachchaffin said:

Let's pretend that i'm a guild master in a Guild Vs Guild campaign. Me and my 50 guild-mates have spent a lot of time and effort to build a keep, and control the local POI's. what's to stop a neighboring guild (from a different time zone) from waiting until we're all (or mostly) offline before attacking our bases and destroying all of our hard work without any way for us to stop them? Is there a system in place where we can recruit soldiers? i know thralls can act as shop keepers, but can they be soldiers? if so i seriously doubt they'll be common/strong enough to defend against a persistent attacker. If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

 

I believe they will have a good system in place as this PvP/siege style has already been explored in Shadowbane... this may however differ between rulesets. Rest assured that under most rulesets you will not have to defend your hard work 24/7 and that you will have multiple days to prepare your defense in the event that someone wants to attack your base.

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1 hour ago, Zachchaffin said:

Let's pretend that i'm a guild master in a Guild Vs Guild campaign. Me and my 50 guild-mates have spent a lot of time and effort to build a keep, and control the local POI's. what's to stop a neighboring guild (from a different time zone) from waiting until we're all (or mostly) offline before attacking our bases and destroying all of our hard work without any way for us to stop them? Is there a system in place where we can recruit soldiers? i know thralls can act as shop keepers, but can they be soldiers? if so i seriously doubt they'll be common/strong enough to defend against a persistent attacker. If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

Attacks on city assets will likely need to be made during a certain vulnerability window that is set by the owner of the city so that city assets don't get burned down when the owner is offline. 

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10 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Attacks on city assets will likely need to be made during a certain vulnerability window that is set by the owner of the city so that city assets don't get burned down when the owner is offline. 

Even if there is a vulnerability window there should be some ways to negatively impact assets that are just sitting there unprotected by real players.  Just like the tree only protected a certain number of buildings in SB.  Totally persistent assets should be a part of the Barbie Dreamhouse in EKs.


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I'd imagine most campaigns will be using some form of the Banestone mechananic. Essentially the guild wanting to attack gets a Banestone and chooses their attack DAY, then the defenders get to choose the TIME WINDOW for that day in which the other guild can siege.

I'm a big fan of this mechanic and I'm glad they're using it. 

Edited by Zybak

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56 minutes ago, zolaz said:

Even if there is a vulnerability window there should be some ways to negatively impact assets that are just sitting there unprotected by real players.  Just like the tree only protected a certain number of buildings in SB.  Totally persistent assets should be a part of the Barbie Dreamhouse in EKs.

Well the defending players will likely need a steady stream of supplies to keep their keep/city fortified and maintained. So disrupting their activates at lumber, mine etc POIs and taking out their caravans will probably be the way to do that.

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59 minutes ago, Zybak said:

I'd imagine most campaigns will be using some form of the Banestone mechananic. Essentially the guild wanting to attack gets a Banestone and chooses their attack DAY, then the defenders get to choose the TIME WINDOW for that day in which the other guild can siege.

I'm a big fan of this mechanic and I'm glad they're using it. 

Yep seems like a good system to start with. I would refine it a bit more though as apparently times could be set at any time within that 24 hr window? I would make it so you get a few days to pick from but theres a limit on when you can set the time ie only or mostly in that servers "prime time" so as lame as the 4am PvE base raid is, that you get with 24/7 vulnerability, the defenders can't pull equally lame tactic of setting a time when attacker's would be low pop or unable to attend fully.

Edited by pang

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2 hours ago, Zachchaffin said:

Let's pretend that i'm a guild master in a Guild Vs Guild campaign. Me and my 50 guild-mates have spent a lot of time and effort to build a keep, and control the local POI's. what's to stop a neighboring guild (from a different time zone) from waiting until we're all (or mostly) offline before attacking our bases and destroying all of our hard work without any way for us to stop them? Is there a system in place where we can recruit soldiers? i know thralls can act as shop keepers, but can they be soldiers? if so i seriously doubt they'll be common/strong enough to defend against a persistent attacker. If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

There are currently two known rulesets which different approaches - pre-set siege windows and cycling timers
 

Quote

BANECIRCLE RULESET:

BaneCircle siege rules focus less on caravans, and more on city defense during the pre-negoiated siege windows.

BLOODSTONE RULESET:

video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IolWGu7xFlw

faq
https://www.crowfall.com/en/faq/strategy/

"This is a BLOODSTONE Campaign. This ruleset was created to give smaller groups -- like a band of outlaws hiding in a forest -- the possibility of competing with large, more organized groups.

Players collect unique reagents to create BLOODSTONE TREES. A Bloodstone Tree, once planted, cannot be moved – it can only be destroyed. And these areas are distinct – the area around two Trees cannot overlap.

You can build defenses (and structures) around your Bloodstone Tree. At the time of planting, you set a cycle timer for that tree (X hours PROTECTED, followed by Y hours UNPROTECTED). This cycle will be continued until the Campaign ends or the Tree is destroyed.

When the Tree is PROTECTED, the city is safe. The tree will magically protect all of the structures within a radius, protecting them from harm. During this time, however, the tree does not produce many BLOODSTONES.

When the Tree is in an UNPROTECTED state, the magic protection of the Tree falls – and the City is subject to sieging by other players. It is during this period, however, that it becomes highly likely that the Tree will randomly spawn Bloodstones.

Each Bloodstone that is produced has a randomized TARGET DESTINATION. The only way to gain Victory Points in this Campaign is for players to transport the Bloodstone to the Target Destination and perform a ritual to sacrifice it to the Gods.

The Bloodstone must be sacrificed before it decays (i.e. in less an hour.) The Bloodstone cannot be teleported, it must be escorted by hand.

If the Bloodstone is captured by other players during this window, the Bloodstone will pick a new TARGET DESTINATION. If an opponent can transport the Bloodstone to the new Target Destination, they can redeem it for Victory Points for THEIR team.

It is worth noting that Bloodstones are not removed from the World (via logout or any other means) nor easily hidden (though some Classes and Disciplines may have powers that specifically revolve around Bloodstones: finding them, hiding them, slowing the decay timer, etc.)

If a Bloodstone Tree is destroyed during the Activation window, it will drop a number of Bloodstones instantly, giving the attacker a
potential reward (which still have to be taken to the Target Location, to be redeemed!)"

 

Edited by Tinnis

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Siege Windows. Essentially, your strongholds are protected from destruction. To make them destroyable, the attackers need a Banestone. They place this Banestone within a range of the stronghold they're attacking. This protects nearby siege equipment from destruction. You then get 24 hours or so to name a time in which the Banestone takes effect and both protections are shut down, typically within the next 3 days or so. This means that attackers get to decide the day of the siege, but that you get to decide the hour. The siege ends when they destroy the core, the Tree of Life, of your stronghold, or when you destroy their Banestone.

 

You can't protect PoI like quarries and mines in the same way, however, as those are meant to be switching hands relatively frequently. In this way, you can starve a stronghold of resources without it being directly attacked.

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6 hours ago, zolaz said:

Lets just pretend that is what you are suppose to do.  Unless you are a carebear, then you initiate Stare sequence.

 

5 hours ago, zolaz said:

Even if there is a vulnerability window there should be some ways to negatively impact assets that are just sitting there unprotected by real players.  Just like the tree only protected a certain number of buildings in SB.  Totally persistent assets should be a part of the Barbie Dreamhouse in EKs.

It's strange to me that, of the two options, you consider the banestone system to be the "carebear" approach. If anything it forces people to actually fight each other when they can both log on rather than just having one side fighting defenseless buildings. Not having a banestone-like system would turn it from PvP to PvBuilding and PvTimezone. I always thought of bane stones as the "let's schedule a fun fight" stone.

Edited by recatek

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25 minutes ago, recatek said:

 

 

It's strange to me that, of the two options, you consider the banestone system to be the "carebear" approach. If anything it forces people to actually fight each other when they can both log on rather than just having one side fighting defenseless buildings. Not having a banestone-like system would turn it from PvP to PvBuilding and PvTimezone. I always thought of bane stones as the "let's schedule a fun fight" stone.

Yep got this same notion from the last long thread on this as well. Its like some would rather have a poor PvP experience just to say there are no restrictions, rather than have a good PvP experience that requires some limits and restrictions. Seems silly to me, at the end of the day we are all here to play a good game are we not?  

Edited by pang

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16 minutes ago, pang said:

Yep got this same notion from the last long thread on this as well. Its like some would rather have a poor PvP experience just to say there are no restrictions, rather than have a good PvP experience that requires some limits and restrictions. Seems silly to me, at the end of the day we are all here to play a good game are we not?  

in every game, some players are just there to annoy others. nothing else ;)

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10 hours ago, recatek said:

It's strange to me that, of the two options, you consider the banestone system to be the "carebear" approach. If anything it forces people to actually fight each other when they can both log on rather than just having one side fighting defenseless buildings. Not having a banestone-like system would turn it from PvP to PvBuilding and PvTimezone. I always thought of bane stones as the "let's schedule a fun fight" stone.

Banestone is a pretty carebear way to handle an attack in a pvp centered game.  If you say things like "that is not fair", "this is more fun" or "scheduled pvp"  you probably have carebear tendencies.  Warfare and Life are asymmetric and unbalanced but that is too much for some people to handle.  If the Red Wedding would have made your faction or guild quit the game, maybe extreme pvp isnt for you.  


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5 hours ago, zolaz said:

Banestone is a pretty carebear way to handle an attack in a pvp centered game.  If you say things like "that is not fair", "this is more fun" or "scheduled pvp"  you probably have carebear tendencies.  Warfare and Life are asymmetric and unbalanced but that is too much for some people to handle.  If the Red Wedding would have made your faction or guild quit the game, maybe extreme pvp isnt for you.  

While i agree with you, i think you've assumed to much about CF and how "hard core" its going to be. This wont be another DarkFall style mmo. I suspect there will be different rules for different campaigns, and most will have, or cater to a stricter, or "carebear" way of life. 

 

23 hours ago, Zachchaffin said:

Let's pretend that i'm a guild master in a Guild Vs Guild campaign. Me and my 50 guild-mates have spent a lot of time and effort to build a keep, and control the local POI's. what's to stop a neighboring guild (from a different time zone) from waiting until we're all (or mostly) offline before attacking our bases and destroying all of our hard work without any way for us to stop them? Is there a system in place where we can recruit soldiers? i know thralls can act as shop keepers, but can they be soldiers? if so i seriously doubt they'll be common/strong enough to defend against a persistent attacker. If there's no solution then that's a pretty big oversight, and my guild will literally exploit that and just act as bandits raiding all the other defenseless guilds instead of trying to hold territory.

I guess it depends on how you look at things. While i understand you do not want to lose your hard work while you sleep, that is apart of war in a more realistic environment - Think survival gaming! If its me, id be recruiting some opposite time zoned players to counter this issue, not complain about it. 

 

You concern brought another thought to mind - Should a guild not be able to attack simply because the opposing guild is asleep? 

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11 hours ago, zolaz said:

Banestone is a pretty carebear way to handle an attack in a pvp centered game.  If you say things like "that is not fair", "this is more fun" or "scheduled pvp"  you probably have carebear tendencies.  Warfare and Life are asymmetric and unbalanced but that is too much for some people to handle.  If the Red Wedding would have made your faction or guild quit the game, maybe extreme pvp isnt for you.  

I guess I'm non-traditional, but if someone on the street asked me what "extreme pvp" was, I'd at least expect it to involve people fighting other people rather than waking up at 4am to fight defenseless buildings.

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On 6/5/2017 at 10:11 AM, Tinnis said:

There are currently two known rulesets which different approaches - pre-set siege windows and cycling timers
 

 

^ This

 

Of course, even with these mechanics, the guild on another sleep schedule can exploit your resource nodes and factory POI's, as well as dismantle and cart off any structures outside your strongholds/Bloodstone tree circles. So 24/7 coverage is still advantageous. It just isn't an "I WIN" button.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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