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ACE Q&A for June - Official discussion thread

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Are promotion classes still going to be a thing? Have they been pushed back or just completely cut? The newer classes don't even have placeholder names in their skill trees. 

Edited by Zybak

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55 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Personal opinion, but disciplines like Bard, Troubadour or even the Shaman discipline you mentioned fundamentally change whatever class you're playing whereas a discipline like Juggernaut just adds utility even though they're both major disciplines. That's the reason why I prefer the idea of bard (and shaman) being a class instead of a discipline.

I played EQ1 so long I just can't get that version of a bard out of my head. The idea of a big bruiser like a Champion being able to be a bard just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe limiting it to certain classes instead of allowing everyone to use it would be a good middle ground.  

Minotaur singing lullaby bards are just str8 weird.

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Not a fan of mech style engineers in fantasy games.

Also multi-classing can be fun but I think there needs to be healthy restrictions on disciplines.  I don't want to see too many all race all class disciplines.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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7 minutes ago, Zybak said:

Are promotion classes still going to be a thing? Have they been pushed back or just completely cut? The newer classes don't even have placeholder names in their skill trees. 

They darn well better be. Otherwise class skill trees will be completed in about 2-3 months with little customization outside of disciplines.

 

Either keep Promotion classes in or spruce up the skill tree so it has actual choices you can make and unmake over time that do more interesting things rather than which branch you go down first to change a few numbers.

 

Edited by Ranik

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2 minutes ago, Ranik said:

They darn well better be. Otherwise class skill trees will be completed in about 2-3 months with little customization outside of disciplines.

 

Either keep Promotion classes in or spruce up the skill tree so it has actual choices you can make and unmake over time. Rather than just which branch you choose to go down first.

 

What would Promotions add, though, that Disciplines couldn't? Different weapons are covered by Weapon Disciplines, and specialized powers are covered by Major and Minor Disciplines. I'd like to understand the point of it before demanding it be in.

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9 minutes ago, Dondagora said:

What would Promotions add, though, that Disciplines couldn't? Different weapons are covered by Weapon Disciplines, and specialized powers are covered by Major and Minor Disciplines. I'd like to understand the point of it before demanding it be in.

I think we are perhaps overthinking it a bit. Promotion class vessels could just act like a class vessel WITH a free pre-applied Discipline that doesn't take up a slot and provides some other stat bonuses compared to a normal vessel. Then in addition could apply the promotion class skill tree.

 

Lets look at the knight. iirc it goes...

 

Knight -> Sentinel / Swordsman / Crusader

aka

Knight -> +Archery Discipline & +Perception / + Master of Swords +Bleed Damage / +Shield Fighter + Armor Class

 

That would be the easiest / laziest solution, would make promotion class vessels desirable and close to their original themes and probably still allow the promotion class skill trees hopefully without over-complicating the new race / class system since they will already need to make the discs work across races+class combinations.

 

 

Edited by Ranik

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1 hour ago, blazzen said:

The idea of a big bruiser like a Champion being able to be a bard just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe limiting it to certain classes instead of allowing everyone to use it would be a good middle ground.  

I would imagine Bard could be Race related,(e.g. Woodelves, Elkan, and Human?) Or to classes.(Druid and Cleric)

 


[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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its going to come down to how they divide access. currently there are many 'all' and only a few unique or tightly restricted stones

it comes down to choice in the end

eg

role only stones

class only stones

race only stones

combo role/class AND race only stones


we also have not heard about:

full racial bonuses

advantages and disadvantages

enchantment power modification

and the mentioned promotions

Edited by Tinnis

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Overall I love getting in the testing and trying things out, but every time I hear a Q&A I have major reservations.

I don't like the news that thralls will be like other resources and may be limited by bands.  I hope they mean the quality of thrall would be limited and not the type.  I still see this as a fundamental flaw in the embargo system.  I'm not interested in creating a new "main" vessel from scratch each time we enter into a dregs campaign.  I hope that at a minimum they will allow 1 "main" vessel whenever we first enter a campaign; weapons and armor are different, but vessels even with discs are part of the character process, and less of the itemization equipment process.

 


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I don't see problem with thralls, they sound exactly the same as in Shadowbane : 

Quote

Discipline runes are found on specific mobs throughout the world.

They were spots of interest and fights on maps where guilds were fighting to have access to it and thief to stole them from backpack while scouts were trying to chase those thieves down.

And they were on different timer (sometimes long for the most successfull ones)

I have no doubt it will look the same

For the disciplines restrictions, i think it will not be hard to the team to make them specific to race/class so no worries to have about a myrmidon bard yet. Let them put it all in place and then we can start talking about "yeah but a bard myrmidon is kinda wtf"

Remember it's pre-alpha and the team is on listen, look at the combat system from where we came and how they listened, so far so good now (or maybe we could speak again about root motion? :D )

Edited by Gorwald

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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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I'm inclined to agree that Bard/Troub should be combined into a class.  I like that they went to a class/disc model, and hope that the final selection of "classes" is deliberate, and not just an arbitrary byproduct of those "classes" merely being the initially planned archetype releases. 

I.e., the base classes in CF need to be well thought out, in the context of the new discipline model; not just a default result of "these were the first archetypes we wanted to make, so now these are the 'classes' in CF"

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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5 minutes ago, mourne said:

I'm inclined to agree that Bard/Troub should be combined into a class.  I like that they went to a class/disc model, and hope that the final selection of "classes" is deliberate, and not just an arbitrary byproduct of those "classes" merely being the initially planned archetype releases. 

I.e., the base classes in CF need to be well thought out, in the context of the new discipline model; not just a default result of "these were the first archetypes we wanted to make, so now these are the 'classes' in CF"

Indeed. Right now, if you're a Bard, you typically either go all in with it or not at all. Best to get on with it and just make it a Class. The question is, how would it work? What weapons would it use? How would it attack? I'm thinking, if anything, staff or book should be its default weapon, and its basic attack would be a small AoE pulse of whatever song they're currently toggled onto.

Songs in general need a nerf in range, and I'd like for them to give more room to not just be pressing the same keys over and over again to keep all the buffs up. If, for instance, the Bard's Songs were instead cut up into "Notes". You could then string these notes together. The last three Notes played will repeatedly play as a "Song", their effects pulsing every three seconds. While they're toggled on, singing drains stamina, albeit slowly. Thus, you can equip your own personal Song, and take Disciplines to expand your variety of Notes to choose from. This gives Songs an skillfulness about them in terms of choice, a passiveness to allow Bards to do this and that without focusing their entire being on keeping the Songs going, and a limitation so it isn't an always-on buff. The Notes's effects should be lower than their original, but being able to do other things makes up for the lessened area effect.

That would be my ideal change.

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Hello,

I'm pretty new around here and from what I've been reading, a lot of this game seems immensely complicated. I understand that with that complexity comes a huge amount of customization and opportunity for players to define their own game, but has the consequence of that complexity been weighed against the cost to learning how to even play the game at a competent level? When it comes to game design, I've always had the philosophy that every additional mechanic added into the game must be considered as to how it impacts the ability for new players to pick up the game and run with it. Without the ability for newcomers to enjoy themselves and understand SOME ASPECT of the game almost immediately, it becomes very hard to grow your audience and market share. 

My favorite game I've ever played was GW1, but it died (partially) due to its complexity. As players left, new ones never filled the gaps because the cost to entry was simply too steep. With the addition of all these news disciplines, stone, races, etc combined with the flexibity behind vessels and your items, is there concern that you might be creating a large barrier for new players?

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I am a fan of Bard as a Discipline rather then a Class. I hope to see more Major Disciplines that look like they 'could have been a class.'

I'm also happy to hear that Disciplines won't be something you can just take for granted. Gives me hope that Thrall-hunting will be as fun as Discipline-hunting was in Shadowbane.

Edited by Jah

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cleric will be getting bard like songs as holy auras in their base kit.

while i am all for a bard class generally - what they delivered in the bard/troub wouldn't really work too well as a single class in crowfall - it feels much better if the two parts are broken up and can be mixed and matched with the large variety of other combinations

i even tried running a pure troub/bard [100% only songs on one tray on a base knight for hp/block] in some fights...meh...felt way too time constrained to make best use of both sides and passive with minimal impact compared to a more focused half of the parts with whatever else mixed in

Edited by Tinnis

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6 hours ago, Zybak said:

Are promotion classes still going to be a thing? Have they been pushed back or just completely cut? The newer classes don't even have placeholder names in their skill trees. 

 

6 hours ago, Ranik said:

They darn well better be. Otherwise class skill trees will be completed in about 2-3 months with little customization outside of disciplines.

 

Either keep Promotion classes in or spruce up the skill tree so it has actual choices you can make and unmake over time that do more interesting things rather than which branch you go down first to change a few numbers.

 

 

6 hours ago, Dondagora said:

What would Promotions add, though, that Disciplines couldn't? Different weapons are covered by Weapon Disciplines, and specialized powers are covered by Major and Minor Disciplines. I'd like to understand the point of it before demanding it be in.

This is dangerous ground as far as I am concerned.  Why?  Because if there isn't a need for promotion classes, then why have a skill tree at all?  Why not tie everything to gear? (vessel, discipline, weapon, armor, etc.). 

The one thing that CF lacks in abundance is permanence, and I believe it would be folly to further reduce the little CF has currently.  In addition, in the eyes of at least this RPG enthusiast, the new archetype class/race split brought back some credibility to the genre association CF has.  It would completely undo that to throw out skills in favor of more impermanent gear.  Finally, for every person who loves crafting and resource gathering, I would guess there are half a dozen that mostly just want to fight.  I don't think most of CF's supporters are here for a crafting game (primarily).   

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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7 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

I'll be honest, I'm slowly starting to come around and sympathize more with the people that have been complaining since the very beginning that there is not enough permanence in character customization and builds. I was perfectly fine with craftable vessels, but now needing to craft 6 runes on top of that, which might be even harder to accomplish than crafting gear and vessels is starting to sound like a bit too much for my own tastes. I understand this falls back into guild logistics, I suppose we have to wait for CWs to see. 

Welcome.  Please, help yourself to the cookies. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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4 hours ago, Regulus said:

Welcome.  Please, help yourself to the cookies. 

To be fair the +15 attack power passive training will be permanent.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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5 hours ago, Regulus said:

 

 

This is dangerous ground as far as I am concerned.  Why?  Because if there isn't a need for promotion classes, then why have a skill tree at all?  Why not tie everything to gear? (vessel, discipline, weapon, armor, etc.). 

The one thing that CF lacks in abundance is permanence, and I believe it would be folly to further reduce the little CF has currently.  In addition, in the eyes of at least this RPG enthusiast, the new archetype class/race split brought back some credibility to the genre association CF has.  It would completely undo that to throw out skills in favor of more impermanent gear.  Finally, for every person who loves crafting and resource gathering, I would guess there are half a dozen that mostly just want to fight.  I don't think most of CF's supporters are here for a crafting game (primarily).   

I personally believe that the impermanent aspect of Crowfall is fine. The economy they promised is one of the various things that brought me to Crowfall, I'd hate for them to abandon it. Besides, what greater consequence is there for losing or lack of tactics? It isn't the end of the world, either. Lose the Disciplines you like? More reason enter a campaign, to find the thrall you want. More reason to win, to get that thrall's rune out of the campaign and to a Runecrafter. More risk/reward in certain campaigns, encouraging, once again, strategy over brute force since injuring your vessel has real consequence now.

 

This is delivering on what they promised: A Throne War Simulator. You don't fight and get off scot-free just because you won, your accumulative damage matters now. Gear, and castles, and food all become things to not only win, but to protect yourself and your interests [customization].

 

Though, that's just my opinion on the matter.

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