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Pann

ACE Q&A for June - Official discussion thread

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5 hours ago, Regulus said:

if there isn't a need for promotion classes, then why have a skill tree at all?  Why not tie everything to gear? (vessel, discipline, weapon, armor, etc.). 

I'd be totally fine with that.

CF seems more about loss and impermanence and passive training doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'd rather see more options in creating/equipping Vessels/Gear then a boring passive system that provides skill less advantage to those that play longer (or click and wait) vs new players and really doesn't add any "RPG" imo.

Also curious if it actually fits the lore some how or just is because they need something to get a monthly sub from folks and because people need the vertical power boost to feel special.

Rather see people running around with "Promo Vessels" with high stats and better abilities because they "earned" them some how actively playing then clicking a button and waiting X days to pass. The more tied to the economy, risk v reward, player skill, choice/options is a plus to me. As is, the passive system (especially AT/class side) is the opposite of those things.

Edited by APE

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I would like to know about any plans for a cash shop.  It impacts the games revenue, so I find it important.

 

You guys should monetize tons of cosmetic/vanity stuff in the cash shop.  It would be an outlet for player/character expression, while simultaneously funding CF.  It could also be used to give more value to VIP status (e.g., a monthly stipend of "shop credits" for VIP members).

  • Skin "blueprints" or some **** for crafters to make different looking armor and weapons;
  • Mount skins;
  • Custom heraldry options;
  • Custom spell/ability effects;*
  • Custom building/placeables motifs;
    • Custom decorations
  • Emotes.

If you guys make the cash shop enticing enough, people will pay.  MOBA skin sales are bonkers.

* The old "character attachment" concern some have voiced might be partially addressed with things like custom spell/ability effects.  It would require expenditure of real money, and would visually depict that expression of commitment to a given Class or Discipline or Race players crave.  It would satisfy that desire to stand out.  What more bad *** way to convey you are the most BAD *** bard in the ****ING land than unique song effect trails?!

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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19 hours ago, Pann said:

Which topics would you like to dig into deeper?

FULL STORY

Class and discipline design choices. I still think every race is way too limited in terms of class choices they have. Some classes aren't spread out enough amongst races while others are. Too many races can become Knights, compared to other classes at this point. This is not a bad thing, I just believe that the same should be applied to other classes.

Speaking of the Knight: If a guinecean can become a Knight, then there really shouldn't be any limits at all. I mean seriously, a guinecean Knight? I don't even have to explain why this is completely ridiculous, but I'm fine with it if other races/classes can get the same treatment, especially Duellist. The game is in alpha, so why can't the lore be? Why not adapt the lore to fit class and race compatibility. The guineceans can teach other races how to use firearms. I mean, the other races aren't mentally challenged, they just haven't discovered the technology yet. I was already looking forward to a human Druid akin to Diablo 2, but now that option is completely thrown out the window(Not a fan of elves at all, too many elves in this game right now).

These are all just suggestions, and I know you are still working out the kinks and trying your best, so please look at this as constructive criticism.

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2 minutes ago, Gwanstar said:

Class and discipline design choices. I still think every race is way too limited in terms of class choices they have. Some classes aren't spread out enough amongst races while others are. Too many races can become Knights, compared to other classes at this point. This is not a bad thing, I just believe that the same should be applied to other classes.

Speaking of the Knight: If a guinecean can become a Knight, then there really shouldn't be any limits at all. I mean seriously, a guinecean Knight? I don't even have to explain why this is completely ridiculous, but I'm fine with it if other races/classes can get the same treatment, especially Duellist. The game is in alpha, so why can't the lore be? Why not adapt the lore to fit class and race compatibility. The guineceans can teach other races how to use firearms. I mean, the other races aren't mentally challenged, they just haven't discovered the technology yet. I was already looking forward to a human Druid akin to Diablo 2, but now that option is completely thrown out the window(Not a fan of elves at all, too many elves in this game right now).

These are all just suggestions, and I know you are still working out the kinks and trying your best, so please look at this as constructive criticism.

They did say in the very reveal of it they they are more than open to open up more classes and more than likely would in future, as long as it don't go against the established lore, so if you do have any specific ones you would like, and could maybe even get a few other ppl behind it as well, chances to get it would be good

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2 hours ago, Gummiel said:

They did say in the very reveal of it they they are more than open to open up more classes and more than likely would in future, as long as it don't go against the established lore, so if you do have any specific ones you would like, and could maybe even get a few other ppl behind it as well, chances to get it would be good

And, I believe, that the current classes will be getting an influx of new powers. Or, at least that Cleric would have more powers than it could slot, and that sort of choice is what they want from all the classes.

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7 hours ago, Dondagora said:

I personally believe that the impermanent aspect of Crowfall is fine. The economy they promised is one of the various things that brought me to Crowfall, I'd hate for them to abandon it...

I have quite a bit more to say on this, but for now let me state that I do not believe anyone has asked ACE to abandon "the economy they promised".  Since announcement, the pendulum, however, is swinging every more drastically in the direction of crafting and gear and impermanence.  The fear is, for some, that it will continue to do so.  Virtually everything that you note you like still existed before C&V and disciplines and before anyone every thought about promotion classes being removed. 

There is a recent an amusing video that this reminds me of, the whole crafting/survival aspect of CF getting every more heavy handed and maybe even in the way of what many (most players) want, but there is swearing in it.  If you want to watch it is called "games that think more gameplay mechanics equals more fun" by ProZD on Youtube.  Not a direct hit, but in relation to the discussion it makes me chuckle.  

 

 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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1 hour ago, coolwaters said:

You really don't.

Its simply not possible to like every system and mechanic in the game and even all parts of certain systems. I put quotes around "bad" to mean that in the Discipline system there will in fact be combos we might not personally think makes sense but do make sense to another player, not bad as in broken or not functioning properly. and also just because we might think certain combos are "stupid" doesn't mean the whole system should be changed to suit our personal preferences.  

But I already explained this in the rest of the post you quoted.

Edited by pang

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39 minutes ago, pang said:

Its simply not possible to like every system and mechanic in the game and even all parts of certain systems. I put quotes around "bad" to mean that in the Discipline system there will in fact be combos we might not personally think makes sense but do make sense to another player, not bad as in broken or not functioning properly. and also just because we might think certain combos are "stupid" doesn't mean the whole system should be changed to suit our personal preferences.  

But I already explained this in the rest of the post you quoted.

True, but "liking every syetem and mechanic" was not the point of disagreement. The disagreement was whether:

Quote

with a subclass system you pretty much have to take the good with the "bad".

You don't have to in the context you two were discussing at all. It makes perfect sense to implement some restrictions based on context, lore, power creep protection, etc,. SB did it well.

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25 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

True, but "liking every syetem and mechanic" was not the point of disagreement. The disagreement was whether:

You don't have to in the context you two were discussing at all. It makes perfect sense to implement some restrictions based on context, lore, power creep protection, etc,. SB did it well.

It was in the point I was making though. Again when I said "bad" I meant that there will be combos we may not personally like or think makes much sense.

and I already said earlier in the thread there will be some limitations based on race/class/balance etc. But the posters I was talking to simply said that some combos are "stupid" and didn't make sense to them. Hence my replying that it might not make sense to them but it may to other players. The example I gave which was about a Myrm with Shaman Disc which the poster claimed was one that didn't make sense to him, I pointed out that a Myrm Shaman makes sense to me because I played an Melee spec Shaman in WoW ie dual wielding melee with totems.

THAT was my point, that some combos will make sense to you and others may not and the ones that don't make sense to you will make sense to other players. Whatever limitations are put in place is besides the point I was making. So that's like 3 times I've repeated the same point, can we move on now?

Edited by pang

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36 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

It makes perfect sense to implement some restrictions based on context, lore, power creep protection, etc,. SB did it well.

Didn't it end up being called "Roguebane" because it didn't do that well, or was that result of something else?


Hi, I'm moneda.

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4 minutes ago, moneda said:

Didn't it end up being called "Roguebane" because it didn't do that well, or was that result of something else?

Not at all.

Balance waxed and waned in all base classes. At stages of its life SB - just as CF will be - had various classes come to the top of the heap.

  • Minobane
  • Casterbane
  • Roguebane

There were bunches. This had zero to do with who could take what disc.

Edited by coolwaters

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17 minutes ago, pang said:

It was in the point I was making though. Again when I said "bad" I meant that there will be combos we may not personally like or think makes much sense.

That's fair. However, where it is so obvious that a meaningful counter-argument cannot even be made that a disc fits poorly in context or in lore or in overall utility and balance, then the restriction is clearly called for.

Mino Bards, for example, make no more sense to me than Mino Confessors.

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8 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

That's fair. However, where it is so obvious that a meaningful counter-argument cannot even be made that a disc fits poorly in context or in lore or in overall utility and balance, then the restriction is clearly called for.

Mino Bards, for example, make no more sense to me than Mino Confessors.

Agree there yeah. When its proper based on a few factors to limit a combo sure but again should never limit a combo because some players just don't like it or think is stupid. So basically there should only be limitations based on actual gameplay factors and never based on personal preference feelings towards a combo.

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2 minutes ago, pang said:

Agree there yeah. When its proper based on a few factors to limit a combo sure but again should never limit a combo because some players just don't like it or think is stupid. So basically there should only be limitations based on actual gameplay factors and never based on personal preference feelings towards a combo.

I agree on a base level, so long as lore and context has meaning. certainly balance restrictions are just as important.

This is the reason Field Surgeon on a Fessor or Mino is so dumb (all of the above reasons). No context. No clear lore basis. Balance problems. generic "feel."

Edited by coolwaters

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20 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

I agree on a base level, so long as lore and context has meaning. certainly balance restrictions are just as important.

This is the reason Field Surgeon on a Fessor or Mino is so dumb (all of the above reasons). No context. No clear lore basis. Balance problems. generic "feel."

Yeah there will no doubt be many debates to be had about which combos should or should not be included based on the mentioned gameplay factors.

Using again the example of a Myrmidon Shaman guess would depend on if the totems that Blair and Mark mentioned in the last Q&A are purely magical items or are they like wood or stone constructs with magical properties and if so do the races that can be a Myrm can they use magic or have the ability to wield magic. Can assume yes as I'm sure there are other Disc they can use that gives them magical abilities as well. That's just one angle to discuss it from. So yeah will be interesting to see how it develops when we see what the final limitation's and possible combos will be.

Edited by pang

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1 hour ago, pang said:

Agree there yeah. When its proper based on a few factors to limit a combo sure but again should never limit a combo because some players just don't like it or think is stupid. So basically there should only be limitations based on actual gameplay factors and never based on personal preference feelings towards a combo.

I think calling it stupid was not the best way to bring my concerns to light.

I dont think bull bards make sense (the reason i said stupid). I also dont think opening some Discs to everyone just because it is cool or people like them makes sense.

They basically said in the Q&A that bards are cool so they created a Disc about them. That is not a problem per se but when you just create it and let it be without any constraint it is a problem.

The game rightnow feel like everyone is hacking and breaking all the game rules. If you say to me the guy playing the champion while singing and healing is a dirty hacker i would believe. That is how much of a mess it is.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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23 hours ago, moneda said:

 

I hope the gating of disciplines via thrall capture is reserved for the most powerful few, as determined via testing, rather than all disciplines; or even a majority of them. Molding what kind of Templar I am via skills will take months (at least), and I'm fine with that, but every bit of customization shouldn't need that kind of time sink IMO.

 

i wouldnt mind in a regular MMO setting but campaigns being time gated makes a big grind risky, if we keep discs when changing campaigns i would welcome a hard/insane grind for "good" disciplines


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3 minutes ago, elvo said:

if we keep discs when changing campaigns i would welcome a hard/insane grind for "good" disciplines

Well the discipline runes will be combined with whatever vessel we've entered when we use them, so I presume that we can then import it into a future campaign (if that campaign allows imports) with those runes attached.


Hi, I'm moneda.

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎06 at 10:50 AM, BarriaKarl said:

I dont know man, for me sub-class means exactly that. Having shaman under druid makes sense but a shaman under knight seems stupid.

For me they should use Discs to increase class options. Like they said creating Discs are faster and cheaper than creating a classes.

They should give knights their own exclusives discs instead of creating weirds shaman knights.

IMO

Sub Class - A branch off of a selected class like you stated Druid>Shaman

Multi Class - Base Class + other optional class traits.

 

I think the term Sub class shouldn't be used because you're right a sub class is exactly as you stated where as a Multi Class uses multiple class traits and is neither one or the other.

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