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Sharing some numbers of Crit and Crit Amount


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So this last weekend I grinded out a lot of materials and I wanted to share some of the math related to Critical Chance and Critical amount. I was at Plentiful 3 only.

Nodes Crit Chance Crit Amount White Green Blue Purple
100 38.2639 4 698 31 43 8
100 39.1005 5.038 812 14 70 24

 

So the above numbers were my skills with the 2 pre-alpha pots Crit Chance and Crit Amount ... the only difference was the the awesome gear @srathor crafted me. I was hunting for whites and the output was significant with a change of 6.98 whites per node versus 8.12 in the gear. I will re-do this experiment again without the pots to get a better feeling of how gear can impact us when we are all scrubs to start. I needed a lot of white mats so did not want to waste time without pots.

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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What tier nodes were you killing?

Personally, this results seem weird to me.

If I understand Blair's post properly, the difference between case 1 and case 2 is as follows.

  • In case 1, each time you kill a node, you have approximately a 38.3% chance of getting 5 rolls on the crit table
  • In case 2, each time you kill a node you have approximately 39.1% chance of getting 6 rolls on the crit table

The number of blue drops that you saw almost doubled

The number of purples drops that you saw increased three fold

And, the number of greens that you got fell by 50%

Given that you had harvested 100 nodes, this result feels really unlikely unless something else (node level) was changing as well...

 

Edited by Twobears
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53 minutes ago, Twobears said:

What tier nodes were you killing?

Personally, this results seem weird to me.

If I understand Blair's post properly, the difference between case 1 and case 2 is as follows.

  • In case 1, each time you kill a node, you have approximately a 38.3% chance of getting 5 rolls on the crit table
  • In case 2, each time you kill a node you have approximately 39.1% chance of getting 6 rolls on the crit table

The number of blue drops that you saw almost doubled

The number of purples drops that you saw increased three fold

And, the number of greens that you got fell by 50%

Given that you had harvested 100 nodes, this result feels really unlikely unless something else (node level) was changing as well...

 

I know right? that is why I shared them ... all rank 5 nodes, The RNG of hitting the Crit Amount could explain it all away but feels like its off the bell curve

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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Seems to line up pretty square to what I imagine a tier 5 version of this table would be.

The very low 15% chance of a green would account for a wider variance in results. If it's lower on tier 5, then that would even be more expected.

0% Critical Table (this table is rolled in addition to the 0% hit table)                  
Item Table Name Item 1 Chance Item 2 Chance Item 3 Chance Item 4 Chance Table 5 Chance
rank 9 copper critical (this table is rolled 1x) 1 green copper 15 1 blue copper 55 1 epic copper 28 1 leg copper 2    
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On 6/6/2017 at 10:02 AM, anhrezcf said:

So this last weekend I grinded out a lot of materials and I wanted to share some of the math related to Critical Chance and Critical amount. I was at Plentiful 3 only.

 

Nodes Crit Chance Crit Amount White Green Blue Purple
100 38.2639 4 698 31 43 8
100 39.1005 5.038 812 14 70 24

 

So the above numbers were my skills with the 2 pre-alpha pots Crit Chance and Crit Amount ... the only difference was the the awesome gear @srathor crafted me. I was hunting for whites and the output was significant with a change of 6.98 whites per node versus 8.12 in the gear. I will re-do this experiment again without the pots to get a better feeling of how gear can impact us when we are all scrubs to start. I needed a lot of white mats so did not want to waste time without pots.

Wish we could have got some numbers where crit was the same but crit amount was different.

 

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3 hours ago, Tark said:

Wish we could have got some numbers where crit was the same but crit amount was different.

 

This (and the inverse) and a control result (getting more purple than green doesnt make sense).

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2 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

This (and the inverse) and a control result (getting more purple than green doesnt make sense).

It does if you look at the rank 9 table I posted, which is a copy from blair on critical amounts.

With a crit you get a doober per crit amount , and you have the following chances.

  • 15% Green
  • 55% Blue
  • 28% Epic
  • 2% Legendary

So yes, if the tier 5 table works in a similar manner,  more purple (epic) than green does make sense.

 

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7 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

It does if you look at the rank 9 table I posted, which is a copy from blair on critical amounts.

With a crit you get a doober per crit amount , and you have the following chances.

  • 15% Green
  • 55% Blue
  • 28% Epic
  • 2% Legendary

So yes, if the tier 5 table works in a similar manner,  more purple (epic) than green does make sense.

 

@anhrezcf Is this a crit only table? Meaning those resources came from crits only?

That white quantity is too big for a crit only table. Unless it is critting for 4 whites drops at once. And the crit rolls are crit amount + 1.

If we had 100 nodes, .5 crit chance and 5 crit rolls we got 250 drops. Now if we consider we drop 4 whites at once we got from the 1st line in table:

175 white drops, 31 green drops, 43 blue drops and 8 purple drops = 257.

If we had 100 nodes, .5 crit chance and 6 crit rolls we got 300 drops. Now if we consider we drop 4 whites at once we got from the 2nd line in table:

203 white drops, 14 green drops, 70 blue drops and 24 purple drops = 311.

That is the best result i can guess from that table. So the drops would be close to:

65% White x4, 10% Green, 20% Blue and 5% Purple.

PS: The math is not perfect, there is a lot assumptions to make my life easier (i am lazy) so dont nitpick. It makes sense to me.

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this is total mats gathered over the nodes 

I was averaging way over 4 whites per node 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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47 minutes ago, anhrezcf said:

this is total mats gathered over the nodes 

I was averaging way over 4 whites per node 

The formula would be 

(Plentiful Harvest table X 4 X # nodes) + (Critical Table result X (Critical Hits X Critical amounts))

So with a high critical amounts and chance, you will end up with far more checks for higher end mats in the critical event, than the single checks against PH on every 25/50/75/100  of a nodes destruction.

The two together explain the higher number of whites, when none show on a critical table, and the skewing of values to blue, due to the critical hits generating more amounts checks.

I'm curious, how did did you get an uneven number on the critical amounts value? (5.038) That seems like it should be a PIP like integer value, and not something with decimals.

 

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53 minutes ago, anhrezcf said:

this is total mats gathered over the nodes 

I was averaging way over 4 whites per node 

Thought so but since it was "possible" to get the same results only with crits i ended up doing the math to try. It was fun so no problem.

OTOH if that data is for all resources you gathered after 100 nodes then i can only guess that green dont drop outside of crits and since we are talking about a R5 with P3 that seem really weird.

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14 minutes ago, srathor said:

His potion gives him +4 crit amount. The gear I made gave him the other 1.038 (Hat gloves chest and boots.) I think 5 is the cap overall. 

We have people running around right now with +7 to +9 crit amount.  Though not sure what kinda results they are getting.

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"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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In the long rambling patch notes video they had one Blair and Halesh didn't understand. That was one of the dudes setting the cap of crit amount to 5 I believe.  (I might be wrong, I didn't test it)

Otherwise you would be seeing MASSIVE sploodge from the crit last hits with +9 rolls on the crit table.

Edited by srathor
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19 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

OTOH if that data is for all resources you gathered after 100 nodes then i can only guess that green dont drop outside of crits and since we are talking about a R5 with P3 that seem really weird.

It would be consistent with the numbers Blair posted in the other thread. At Plentiful 3, his R2 node was dropping greys only on all non-crits, and his R9 was whites only on 75/50/25% and greens at 0%. We don't know exactly what an R5 looks like, but it'd fit for it to be all white on non-crits at P3, maybe hitting green at the P5 0% hit.

I don't like those numbers and I'm not saying they're not weird, but it does seem to be what we're dealing with in the game at the moment.

references: R9:

and R2:

 

Edited by Avloren
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10 minutes ago, Avloren said:

It would be consistent with the numbers Blair posted in the other thread. At Plentiful 3, his R2 node was dropping greys only on all non-crits, and his R9 was whites only on 75/50/25% and greens at 0%. It would make sense for a P3 R5 node to be all white on non-crits, maybe hitting green at the P5 0% hit.

Well i expected to see some drops when hitting 0% (without crit) since this happen 100 times, i imagine a R5 should give us at least some green.

Even if the chance is as low as 10% green it should happen. It would offset the difference between blue(from crit only probably) and the results would be better.

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11 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Well i expected to see some drops when hitting 0% (without crit) since this happen 100 times, i imagine a R5 should give us at least some green.

Even if the chance is as low as 10% green it should happen. It would offset the difference between blue(from crit only probably) and the results would be better.

The middle column is what I got from tier 5 with PH 4 on from the "real" harvest pot, and none of test ones, so no crits.

Each row is a node.

HC1szqe.jpg

 

This lines up with Blairs table on Tier 9 nodes. where Green from non-crit hits does not show up until you get to rank 4 in PH.

Quote

Here are the r9 copper loot tables:

 

75%, 50%, 25% Hit Tables                    
Treasure Table Name Table 1 Chance Table 2 Chance Table 3 Chance Table 4 Chance Table 5 Chance
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 1 1 white copper 50                
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 2 1-2 white copper 100                
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 3 1-2 white copper 100 ethereal dust 75            
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 4 1-2 white copper 100 1 green copper 4 ethereal dust 75        
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 5 1-2 white copper 100 1 green copper 5 1 blue copper 3 ethereal dust 75  

With PH 3, I got only white. (Not shown here).

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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10 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

The middle column is what I got from tier 5 with PH 4 on from the "real" harvest pot, and none of test ones, so no crits.

Each row is a node.

HC1szqe.jpg

 

This lines up with Blairs table on Tier 9 nodes. where Green from non-crit hits does not show up until you get to rank 4 in PH.

With PH 3, I got only white. (Not shown here).

It seems they are intending to make P3 a barrier. Not sure it is a good decision progression wise since this way anything below 4 and all you get is crap. This together with those harversting passives gives me a bad feeling.

It basically means training 60% in P (which is too much IMO) or good luck with getting good resources. My idea would be lower the acess zone to P3 or higher but since they created those passives anyone could "easily" get good resources so it is a deadlock.

It is just an uncommon resource so dont be stingy. If P3 in R5 isnt enough to even see them we really will suffer in the first campaingn. I also changed my mind on Gathering passives, they are no good.

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