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Test Environments: Official Discussion Thread


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I'm a little confused.

 

We already have 24/7 testing via our EK's

I don't think crowfall was ever meant to have a 24/7 world to just go and explore farm etc

 

I thought the Eternal kingdoms were the 24/7 world and campaigns were meant to be temporary.

So I hope what you mean by 24/7 worlds is a campaign worlds with objectives and win conditions that last longer than a weekend.

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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Start the new server with a total wipe. Banks, skills, All the recipes freebies. That or port over what we have now and wipe the non 24/7 completely. We need a snapshot of what the game really is, not

i would personally welcome a skill wipe etc [especially if it comes along with some sensible skill tree revisions]

A new 24/7 live environment will soon be implemented alongside the test environment. FULL STORY

I'm hoping this 24/7 environment involves a gameplay loop of some kind. Otherwise it's kind of pointless because nobody is going to play the current iteration of the game for very long outside of peak hours (and even that's a stretch). 

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6 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

I'm a little confused.

 

We already have 24/7 testing via our EK's

I don't think crowfall was ever meant to have a 24/7 world to just go and explore farm etc

 

I thought the Eternal kingdoms were the 24/7 world and campaigns were meant to be temporary.

So I hope what you mean by 24/7 worlds is a campaign worlds with objectives and win conditions that last longer than a weekend.

I don't get what you mean. Campaigns were always meant to be multi-week. I think what they mean by 24/7 is an environment they can keep up all the time for testers to play in and not have to be shut down now and again to wipe or otherwise.

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Comment the first:  Introducing a brand new 24 x 7 campaign world seems sufficient to justify new Crows with zero skills.  In particular, if you are expecting a significant influx of new testers it would seem cruel if the players with the most experience with the games also had close to a year's worth of training advantages

Comment the second:  It is unclear to me whether there is enough of a game loop to justify introducing the new world.

  • Tell me about points of interest...
  • What are the win conditions?
  • Tell me about import / export rules
  • What PVP rules will be in place?
  • Will crafting recipes be in place?
  • Are you tweaking the skills system?
  • What about non combat disciplines?
  • Mass production?
  • Thralls?

Please recall that you only have one chance to make a first impression.  I would STRONGLY recommend doing a soft launch of the new environment for a month with the existing players and existing skills.  See whether there is enough of a game loop to hold people's interest...

If there is, great!   Reset everything and throw the doors wide open...  If not, you need to rethink what your doing.

From my perspective, the key issue to focus on is what fraction of your eligible user based is playing and for how long...  There's nothing more important than making such that the initial launch is fun to play and not just reasonable to test.

 

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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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10 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

I'm a little confused.

 

We already have 24/7 testing via our EK's

I don't think crowfall was ever meant to have a 24/7 world to just go and explore farm etc

 

I thought the Eternal kingdoms were the 24/7 world and campaigns were meant to be temporary.

So I hope what you mean by 24/7 worlds is a campaign worlds with objectives and win conditions that last longer than a weekend.

Campaigns are temporary in the sense that they are not eternal, but they can have a duration of a few month as far as I know.

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19 minutes ago, Askari said:

Campaigns are temporary in the sense that they are not eternal, but they can have a duration of a few month as far as I know.

I know that. I posted as such.

 

What i mean is we need a campaign with objectives, and not a 24/7 version of what we have now.

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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9 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

I know that. I posted as such.

When you said, "I don't think crowfall was ever meant to have a 24/7 world to just go and explore farm etc" and  "I thought the Eternal kingdoms were the 24/7 world" it looked like you didn't realize campaigns were always meant to be 24/7.

Edited by Jah

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7 minutes ago, Jah said:

When you said, "I don't think crowfall was ever meant to have a 24/7 world to just go and explore farm etc" and  "I thought the Eternal kingdoms were the 24/7 world" it looked like you didn't realize campaigns weren't meant to be 24/7.

I was under the impression that campaigns are going to be 24 x 7, however, each campaign would only be around for a few months...

 

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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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1 minute ago, narsille said:

I was under the impression that campaigns are going to be 24 x 7, however, each campaign would only be around for a few months...

Yep. The "weren't" in my post was a typo btw.

Edited by Jah

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3 hours ago, srathor said:

Start the new server with a total wipe. Banks, skills, All the recipes freebies. That or port over what we have now and wipe the non 24/7 completely. We need a snapshot of what the game really is, not the bandaided monster it has become.

Should also disable the easy mode on recipes. If you want to see crafting being used for real you need to change that.

Also try to use values that we would expect to see in game. A lot of stuff was balanced with  testing in mind so seeing a enviroment as close to the live game would good.

Also for the love of God make a combat balance pass before starting this new server. I believe only changes that doesnt ruin the balance should move from the Test to Live server. If you guys could tell us what you think is good enough to go to the live server it would be awesome, that way it would be easy to check the community feedback. You guys should have noticed that the community has a different view than you guys at times so it would be a good idea to double check your decisions with us.

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3 hours ago, moneda said:

Conversely, I hope people are ready for a slower rate of iteration for the "live" server. There are a few folk who seem to get real irritated that ACE doesn't make changes on testers' schedules. They're going to have to take some Xannies or something and deal with a much longer "to live" delivery pipeline.

As long they keep the live server balanced this wont be a problem. The reason people get irrated with ACE is because a lot of stuff we want to see changed doesnt change.

They should never ever make bad* changes to the Live server. The Test server exist exactly for this, to see what is good and what is bad.

I define Bad* as something the majority of the community didnt like in the Test Server. Wanna see a example? PCM. That thing should not go for the Live Server before everyone agrees it is working, which i think it is far from.

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15 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

They should never ever make bad* changes to the Live server.

Broken things shouldn't make it onto the live server, but "bad" is too subjective, especially in regards to peoples' (all too often faulty) opinions.

Hi, I'm moneda.

 

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9 minutes ago, moneda said:

Broken things shouldn't make it onto the live server, but "bad" is too subjective, especially in regards to peoples' (all too often faulty) opinions.

Yeah, i know it is subjective but there is some times where everyone agrees that something just isnt good. I just hope they at least take our opinions into account since i think they want to avoid messing with the Live Server as much as possible.

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Reset 24/7 servers.  As @srathorsaid no skills, test pots, anything.  Just core start. I think that this will (re)introduce some fresh testing blood.  One of the more common commentary I hear from new testers is the skill gap between them and those who have been around for a while.  Also provide only a couple CW's.  Maybe East and West (I say this currently living in Asia).  Yes EU and Asia players will experience some latency but this will address combat commentary on low populations.

Test servers (if possible) give them all maxed out skills or an expedited training speed and infinite or increase available resources.  

This should allow you to receive simultaneous feedback from start to throughout the life expectancy of the game.

Edited by Mr.Kurtz
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if there is nothing to do besides pvp and gather resources you can forget it.  I didnt even log in this weekend ive gotten so bored.  I know this wont be the traditional mmo that requires killing thousands of npc's and gathering quests, but you have to have something to do besides fight and cut down trees....

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3 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Yeah, i know it is subjective but there is some times where everyone agrees that something just isnt good. I just hope they at least take our opinions into account since i think they want to avoid messing with the Live Server as much as possible.

Sorry to break it to you bud but when things are this feature incomplete balance is usually the last thing on the list. Game breaking stuff, sure. But if you're looking for well balanced PVP you should think about coming back much later in the process.

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8 minutes ago, Zachdidit said:

Sorry to break it to you bud but when things are this feature incomplete balance is usually the last thing on the list. Game breaking stuff, sure. But if you're looking for well balanced PVP you should think about coming back much later in the process.

I understand your point but i think they should starting paying a little more attention to balance and this Live server is a good place to start.

I have no evidence but i am sure most of the balance problems you see people bringing up in the feedback thread could be solved with a few clicks. Couldnt they tone down Fessor OPness in a few minutes if they wanted to? They could at least TRY.

Changing numbers (Which is basically what balancing means) is extremely easy. They should put the TEST server to good use and try balancing those numbers every week. Make some changes. Wait one week for players feedback. See what is and isnt working and try again.

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2 hours ago, Mr.Kurtz said:

Test servers (if possible) give them all maxed out skills or an expedited training speed and infinite or increase available resources.  

This should allow you to receive simultaneous feedback from start to throughout the life expectancy of the game.

If they did this, I might log in for more than 5 min at a time.

I'd prefer they actually have structured testing on a "test server" with requests instead of running around not knowing what is worth testing or not, what is a bug, what is a to be addressed later, what is their intended design, etc. I have little interest in reporting the same "bug/issue" that's been reported for weeks/months nor wade through thread/comments doing the same thing to see if anything has been addressed or not.

19 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I understand your point but i think they should starting paying a little more attention to balance and this Live server is a good place to start.

I have no evidence but i am sure most of the balance problems you see people bringing up in the feedback thread could be solved with a few clicks. Couldnt they tone down Fessor OPness in a few minutes if they wanted to? They could at least TRY.

Changing numbers (Which is basically what balancing means) is extremely easy. They should put the TEST server to good use and try balancing those numbers every week. Make some changes. Wait one week for players feedback. See what is and isnt working and try again.

Why? They'll just do X tomorrow which will change it again, then Y the next week, Z the following. I get wanting things to be "fun" or at least not clearly broken in some situations, but there is no way to "balance" at this stage, especially with Disciplines being added and needing a whole other "balance" effort. They've already done this before and now X class/ability is OP/broken in the other direction.  Until they have a lot more available, "balance" is going to be messy. Need the rest of the classes, skill training update, other universals, crafting/gathering working properly, POI/loop, siege/win conditions, and overall a more realistic version of what we might see at launch. Until then its balance around duels and unrealistic non-combat features.

As I said above, they should have us actually "testing" instead of logging in and piddling around doing whatever. They could say "How is this class, ability, weapon, discipline, combat mechanic?" Instead it's "Provide us feedback" which looking at some of the dev responses isn't even wanted/needed in several cases.

I don't want to "play" a broken mess, I would however spend some time actually "testing" if there was a bit of guidance. Much like the long list they provided months ago that was very basic. Something updated be it general or specific would be much appreciated. Unless I've missed them doing this some where?

Edited by APE

 


 

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