PaleOne

Tone....Respect and Logic when dealing with the Dev's

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I have noticed that there is a real belligerent tone being used by some testers when speaking directly to the Dev's about their design choices.

I think you can get your point across without being disrespectful

Make an argument and back it up with facts and data not emotion and insults.

I have watched the Murder of Crows series and respect these guys and their experience.

I also am so very grateful that someone is willing to go out there and risk capital to build a pvp siege mmorpg.

 

I know we have all invested capital right alongside them with payment comes expectations, but we need to have patience and some faith.

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The devs give it right back.

Yellow card : That's Dumb come to mind. 

Yes be respectful, but they are not sacred cows. And it goes both ways. I want them to make a great game, that doesn't mean sit down and shut up, they want feedback and feedback from so many different people is going to have some outliers. 

Do I expect them to follow directions. God no, that would be stupid. But I damn sure expect them to realise that they have people who have invested early and in many cases often, who are giving day in and day out time and effort to play and test and keep an open mind through something that normally they have to PAY for. I do expect them to at least listen, then consider what they heard. 

I know game developers are taking the risk, but it is also a job to them, they are being rewarded for taking that risk. Yes it is a passion project as well for most/all otherwise why take the abuse. But for the gamers and the testers, they have a side and a right to be heard as well. And because they are not being compensated they can get tetchy. Especially when they feel they are not being heard. 

That is part and parcel for doing their testing and marketing this way. Cost and benefit, it is a real thing. 

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Posted (edited)

thanks for the thread but i dont think it will change anything, poorly made socksing devs happens everywhere and is not a "problem" as long as the devs have some thick skin (which is required when creating a  game to some extent)

is it nice? nope

can it be prevented? yes if the mods go full gummy bear mode but thats not an solution either, so nope in the end

Edited by Pann
Please see PM

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Posted (edited)

I think what this thread needs is a little John Lennon.  Imagine there's no Devs.... its easy if you try.  No hell below us... above us only sky.  Imagine all the vessels...living life in peace....

hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=246&h=138&st

Though now that I think about it, that seems pretty boring.

Edited by Thubub

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Posted (edited)

I do agree that I've seen a lot of demands or oddly/poorly worded sentences from long-term Kickstarter backers lately. I think most gamers in this age are pretty entitled and paying any sum to play something makes them feel like they are owed something from the developers. They aren't wrong, but its no more than any other person who paid to get into the game. Cumulatively, your personal opinion is minor and trivial in the grander scope of things.

Further complicating matters, however, are the Kickstarter backers who've avidly tested and backed the game at increasingly higher dollar amounts. These players not only feel like they're responsible for the game's existence, but that their non-monetary contributions further entitle them to more attention or that their opinion matters more than others. 

While I see it and acknowledge the support players have given, ultimately the tone should be respectful. Even if the devs "give it back", as you say, a toxic conversation with the devs is still toxic. It's not an easy environment to develop in. I'm sure they probably feel beholden to their backers to some degree as well.

Edited by scree

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Meh, it comes in waves, generally the ones that are most hostile end up leaving anyway.  Though some do stick around because they believe themselves to be "pillars of the community".

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3 minutes ago, Vectious said:

^ Irony is real my friends.

I'm not hostile to the devs, I am logical and understand the context of their job.  So there is no irony there, though the irony would be you accusing me of being the one that is ironic here of course.

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2 minutes ago, makkon said:

No criticism - no progress

Well at various points the devs themselves have said they sometimes tune out hostile criticisms and would prefer constructive and calm criticism.

I know if I were a dev it would be hard to take someone's criticisms seriously over a video game test if they couldn't share them in a civil manner.

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I think the problem is that it is hard to know if they are hearing you. You bring it up once... no response. You bring it up again and still nothing. After a few times it is normal for people to start just being more hmmm direct?

But it is pre-alpha man. I know but ignoring something that is in your face everyday is not that easy. Like i said you can bring it up once and wait some time but not seeing any feedback on that can be frustating. Even a reply from the Devs saying they hear you but wont change it for reasons would solve so many people concerns.

That said i dont think i saw any post that would warrant this thread. Yeah, we can get rough sometimes but nothing too serious IMHO.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Well at various points the devs themselves have said they sometimes tune out hostile criticisms and would prefer constructive and calm criticism.

I know if I were a dev it would be hard to take someone's criticisms seriously over a video game test if they couldn't share them in a civil manner.

you wrote, you made video evidence, you feedback again and again.

and then you saw something like: "blablabla... this is real bug, our team will investigate it " quoted to other guy to similar problem which are just a particular case of ur bug reports... ur bugs still there for months.

I am also human like all other on this forum. this way I agree with @BarriaKarl

Usually devs wont read forums - they hire some antifire minions to parse  forum trash to get real reports and aggregate whine to report it to devs

imho.

Edited by makkon

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6 minutes ago, makkon said:

some antifire minions to parse  forum trash to get real reports and aggregate whine to report it to devs.

I think that was @MiracleMax's job description to the letter! :)

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I CONTRIBUTED A LOT OF MONEY TO THIS GAME (citation needed) SO YOU HAD BETTER DO EVERYTHING I SAY.

poorly made socks, did I post this in the right thread?

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People are getting played by kickstarter and crowd funding. People don't want to admit some pretty basic stuff... they don't want to complete the game as fast as possible or even on a decent schedule... why would they, you gave them a huge chunk of the money before the game was even started. Now players get impatient and feel entitled because they are giving money away on a hope... every game has an alpha and beta period now, why? Because gaming Dev's see they can make a lot more money for a fraction of the product. I completely understand the hostility, until the game comes out it will continue and rightfully so.  

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I've been following this game 3 years already..still in alpha, still not any closer to a beta or a final release.. game still looks about the same.

 

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2 minutes ago, Emplehdog said:

People are getting played by kickstarter and crowd funding. People don't want to admit some pretty basic stuff... they don't want to complete the game as fast as possible or even on a decent schedule... why would they, you gave them a huge chunk of the money before the game was even started. Now players get impatient and feel entitled because they are giving money away on a hope... every game has an alpha and beta period now, why? Because gaming Dev's see they can make a lot more money for a fraction of the product. I completely understand the hostility, until the game comes out it will continue and rightfully so.  

 

1 minute ago, Emplehdog said:

I've been following this game 3 years already..still in alpha, still not any closer to a beta or a final release.. game still looks about the same.

 

They expect soft launch by the end of the year, the game has added a lot of stuff, the visuals look a lot better right now.  It's a pretty decent schedule they've been maintaining.  They actually would still want to get the game completed so they have a nice revenue stream. 

People have always been impatient and have a false sense of entitlement, and it has nothing to do with this game specifically, it has to do with culture and anyone that works in the service industry knows how ridiculous customers can get at times. 

 

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On 6/14/2017 at 10:41 AM, srathor said:

The devs give it right back.

Yellow card : That's Dumb come to mind. 

Yes be respectful, but they are not sacred cows. And it goes both ways. I want them to make a great game, that doesn't mean sit down and shut up, they want feedback and feedback from so many different people is going to have some outliers. 

Do I expect them to follow directions. God no, that would be stupid. But I damn sure expect them to realise that they have people who have invested early and in many cases often, who are giving day in and day out time and effort to play and test and keep an open mind through something that normally they have to PAY for. I do expect them to at least listen, then consider what they heard. 

I know game developers are taking the risk, but it is also a job to them, they are being rewarded for taking that risk. Yes it is a passion project as well for most/all otherwise why take the abuse. But for the gamers and the testers, they have a side and a right to be heard as well. And because they are not being compensated they can get tetchy. Especially when they feel they are not being heard. 

That is part and parcel for doing their testing and marketing this way. Cost and benefit, it is a real thing. 

Context is important. The "thats dumb" comment was in response to an unrealistic scenario. That person was trying to win a battle based on technicality rather than reality. Blair's response in context wasn't even that serious. I have casual discussion all the time and laugh something off as dumb, because it is. 

I think they do a great job considering some of the ignorant posters they have to deal with. 

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4 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

I think the problem is that it is hard to know if they are hearing you. You bring it up once... no response. You bring it up again and still nothing. After a few times it is normal for people to start just being more hmmm direct?

But it is pre-alpha man. I know but ignoring something that is in your face everyday is not that easy. Like i said you can bring it up once and wait some time but not seeing any feedback on that can be frustating. Even a reply from the Devs saying they hear you but wont change it for reasons would solve so many people concerns.

That said i dont think i saw any post that would warrant this thread. Yeah, we can get rough sometimes but nothing too serious IMHO.

For me, the most frustrating thing the dev's do, is when they pull a Q&A, and then totally miss the point of the question and head in another direction with it, even when the point of the question seems to me to be crystal clear.

It makes it seem like they are out of touch with the players concerns, at a time when they should be in touch.  

If they aren't going to bother understanding the question, they may as well not even try to answer it. 

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2 hours ago, Emplehdog said:

I've been following this game 3 years already..still in alpha, still not any closer to a beta or a final release.. game still looks about the same.

 

I'm sorry, what? Just every part of this is wrong. Even just in the last 6 weeks every part of this is wrong. Except for the 3 years part - game wasn't announced yet 30 months ago, and that hasn't changed in the last 6 weeks.

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