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coolster50

The Value of Ethereal Dust

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With the introduction of Geomancy, we are able to correlate the value of real world money with in-game resources.

Let's take the Farm Parcel for an example:

The Farm Parcel costs $15* to buy from the Store, or 10 Earth to craft in-game. In order to craft 1 Earth you need 100 ore, stone, and wood, each. So 10 Earth would be 1000 ore, stone, and wood. 1000 ore is worth 1/3 of the cost to make, or $5. Divide $5USD by 1000, and you get 0.005¢ for the worth of 1 ore, wood, or stone. This means that a stack of 50 ore, wood, or stone is worth 25¢**.

"So we know how much in-game resources are worth, but how does that correlate to Ethereal Dust?", I hear you ask. Great question!

ACE have said that Crowfall will have a player-driven economy, but without in-game vendors that set the value of Ethereal Dust, it is on us, the players, to give value to Ethereal Dust!

Hence, I propose that 25 Ethereal Dust be worth a stack of 50 ore, stone, or wood (or 1 Ethereal Dust is worth 2 resources). If no one opposes this value, then we have all the necessary pieces to form an economy: A way to trade (Trade Chests), a currency to trade with (Ethereal Dust), and something to trade (resources and crafts). The value of goods can be determined by the value of the materials used to make them (+any profit thrown in the mix).

Let this model be used as the baseline, or rather the worth of gray resources. I further propose that the value of the resources increase by 25% per grade. So 50 white resources would be worth 31 Ethereal Dust, 50 Green would be worth 39 Ethereal Dust, 50 Blue worth 49 Ethereal Dust, so on and so forth.

 

Well? What're you waiting for?! Get out there and start a rudimentary economy!

*Values in USD

**Current value of Ethereal Dust during Pre-Alpha Build 5.1.1. Likely to change value between now and soft launch. Value is not expected to change immediately , however.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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The idea has merit, if we could get people to follow and support it. But I think you overestimate value by a bit. Dust is very easy to get, and would/could be even more plentiful if people potted for it or trained for it.

However, with no direct correlation to anything in game this could be very difficult to pull off.


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Great idea, unfortunately it is all speculative until factories are implemented and we can establish an actual need.  I also believe a more reliable and secure trading system other than chests or suicide would Add further weight to this idea.

Edited by Mr.Kurtz

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I'm also hesitant to try and apply numbers to this before live, but a few problems off the bat.

First of all, increasing value by 25% per grade seems like a bad choice for a number of reasons. For one thing, green quality materials are NOT 75% as common as white materials. Not even close. Additionally, blue materials are DEFINITELY not 50% or 56.25% (depending on how you mean "increase by 25% per grade") as common as white materials.

Second of all, even if that were a reasonable increment, the only people who can get the highest grade of materials at all are people who specialize in harvesting that specific material, meaning that the higher the grade, the rarer they are not just for a given person hitting a node, but in the overall scheme of gameplay.

Third of all, the same people who have the highest quantities of goods that can be traded will also, necessarily, be the ones generating the most ethereal dust, since it is a byproduct of gathering and therefore is unlikely to be something worth using as currency to the people who will have access to it before it gets injected into the economy, unless a lot more sources of ethereal dust are added to the game.

I could probably think up one or two more issues, but you get the idea. It might work, but as of right now it seems like a stretch that it will be worthwhile as currency, and it seems downright impossible to actually attach a value to it, even before you get into the drop rates for dust.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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It will completely depend on the cost in dust for a factory blueprint run...   then it becomes the added value of the higher quality production over one by one average production divided by the amount of dust used for the run.  i.e. it will be initially volatile and subjective and yet the economy will fluctuate to find the price the market will bare.

Hint: buy, buy, buy, cheap dust at soft launch as its worth will be naturally lower when nobody can blueprint anything nor use the dust for more than external trades.   Likely most trades will be for raw mats over dust initially.

 

 

Edited by Frykka

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On 6/17/2017 at 11:43 PM, coolster50 said:

With the introduction of Geomancy, we are able to correlate the value of real world money with in-game resources.

Let's take the Farm Parcel for an example:

The Farm Parcel costs $15* to buy from the Store, or 10 Earth to craft in-game. In order to craft 1 Earth you need 100 ore, stone, and wood, each. So 10 Earth would be 1000 ore, stone, and wood. 1000 ore is worth 1/3 of the cost to make, or $5. Divide $5USD by 1000, and you get 0.005¢ for the worth of 1 ore, wood, or stone. This means that a stack of 50 ore, wood, or stone is worth 25¢**.

"So we know how much in-game resources are worth, but how does that correlate to Ethereal Dust?", I hear you ask. Great question!

ACE have said that Crowfall will have a player-driven economy, but without in-game vendors that set the value of Ethereal Dust, it is on us, the players, to give value to Ethereal Dust!

Hence, I propose that 25 Ethereal Dust be worth a stack of 50 ore, stone, or wood (or 1 Ethereal Dust is worth 2 resources). If no one opposes this value, then we have all the necessary pieces to form an economy: A way to trade (Trade Chests), a currency to trade with (Ethereal Dust), and something to trade (resources and crafts). The value of goods can be determined by the value of the materials used to make them (+any profit thrown in the mix).

Let this model be used as the baseline, or rather the worth of gray resources. I further propose that the value of the resources increase by 25% per grade. So 50 white resources would be worth 31 Ethereal Dust, 50 Green would be worth 39 Ethereal Dust, 50 Blue worth 49 Ethereal Dust, so on and so forth.

 

Well? What're you waiting for?! Get out there and start a rudimentary economy!

*Values in USD

**Current value of Ethereal Dust during Pre-Alpha Build 5.1.1. Likely to change value between now and soft launch. Value is not expected to change immediately , however.

There is no value for it now, because there is no use for it now.

We won't be able to gauge value at all, until we figure out what the rate of consumption of it by thralls and taxes.

That's what's going to decide the value, not our pre-use musings.

It's a playable placeholder now, and you're basically trying to answer the question, "how long is a piece of string".

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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On 6/18/2017 at 0:43 AM, coolster50 said:

With the introduction of Geomancy, we are able to correlate the value of real world money with in-game resources.

Let's take the Farm Parcel for an example:

The Farm Parcel costs $15* to buy from the Store, or 10 Earth to craft in-game. In order to craft 1 Earth you need 100 ore, stone, and wood, each. So 10 Earth would be 1000 ore, stone, and wood. 1000 ore is worth 1/3 of the cost to make, or $5. Divide $5USD by 1000, and you get 0.005¢ for the worth of 1 ore, wood, or stone. This means that a stack of 50 ore, wood, or stone is worth 25¢**.

"So we know how much in-game resources are worth, but how does that correlate to Ethereal Dust?", I hear you ask. Great question!

ACE have said that Crowfall will have a player-driven economy, but without in-game vendors that set the value of Ethereal Dust, it is on us, the players, to give value to Ethereal Dust!

Hence, I propose that 25 Ethereal Dust be worth a stack of 50 ore, stone, or wood (or 1 Ethereal Dust is worth 2 resources). If no one opposes this value, then we have all the necessary pieces to form an economy: A way to trade (Trade Chests), a currency to trade with (Ethereal Dust), and something to trade (resources and crafts). The value of goods can be determined by the value of the materials used to make them (+any profit thrown in the mix).

Let this model be used as the baseline, or rather the worth of gray resources. I further propose that the value of the resources increase by 25% per grade. So 50 white resources would be worth 31 Ethereal Dust, 50 Green would be worth 39 Ethereal Dust, 50 Blue worth 49 Ethereal Dust, so on and so forth.

 

Well? What're you waiting for?! Get out there and start a rudimentary economy!

*Values in USD

**Current value of Ethereal Dust during Pre-Alpha Build 5.1.1. Likely to change value between now and soft launch. Value is not expected to change immediately , however.

The problem with this formula, is it only assumes basic white/common quality. The value of rarer materials is completely subjective still and due to how skills are trained (an exponentially more difficult training...) a flat 25% increase tier over tier isn't very fair. You'd need to basically double the value as you moved up from common to uncommon, uncommon to superior, etc.  It's unlikely we'll ever be able to formulate a specific cost for higher tier materials, as valued by the players, with their current economic model.

Dust is likely to be incredibly valueless in general, and more than likely donated to guild coffers to fund the economic engines. I don't really see a viable VIP to Materials market emerging for some time, due to the complicated and unspecific nature of the various micro-economies each individual campaign will likely support. MAYBE if they used it as the only currency to make automated transactions with thralls would it retain any value, and only then because they've minted it as the defacto currency.

Edited by scree

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Like others here have stated before, as much as your idea has merit, the value of something in game has a lot to do based on supply and demand.  The availability of ethereal dust would likely determine it's value.  While the value of Earth will likely always be established purely based on there being in place "buy to save time" premium shop purchases.

But, as for the value of everything else in the game, it will be up for debate.  Remember, similar cash shop options exist in Guild Wars 2 (as it is the only game which have similar cash shop models when it comes to purchasing things in shop which you can also get in game for free if you spend time instead of cash that I am aware of).  After a few years being out, the economy in GW2 has inflated to the point where time to cost ratio has reached the point that it is actually cheaper to try to acquire gems in game for trading for gold than it is to purchase gems with real money.  I suspect this will end up also happening in Crowfall at some point, which means the value of items will no longer have established values based on real world currencies.  Which means, begin the period of uncontrollable inflation without the intervention of a hired economist on the dev team.


My hubris is the size of a 2 by 4 nailed to the side of a YF-12 jet barrel rolling into a volcano piloted by a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

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4 hours ago, Psyctooth said:

Like others here have stated before, as much as your idea has merit, the value of something in game has a lot to do based on supply and demand.  The availability of ethereal dust would likely determine it's value.  While the value of Earth will likely always be established purely based on there being in place "buy to save time" premium shop purchases.

But, as for the value of everything else in the game, it will be up for debate.  Remember, similar cash shop options exist in Guild Wars 2 (as it is the only game which have similar cash shop models when it comes to purchasing things in shop which you can also get in game for free if you spend time instead of cash that I am aware of).  After a few years being out, the economy in GW2 has inflated to the point where time to cost ratio has reached the point that it is actually cheaper to try to acquire gems in game for trading for gold than it is to purchase gems with real money.  I suspect this will end up also happening in Crowfall at some point, which means the value of items will no longer have established values based on real world currencies.  Which means, begin the period of uncontrollable inflation without the intervention of a hired economist on the dev team.

I'm pretty sure GW2 doesn't have nearly the quality of resource sinks CrowFall has, especially things like entire campaigns ending (all non-exported resources lost), and taxes for keeping things functional in your EK.

I'm fairly confident that ACE will be able to keep a handle on hyperinflation that other games simply can't because of the nature of the design of them.

 

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