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Gagzer

A question for the campaigns and game as a whole

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4 minutes ago, QuasiDoc said:


"It shouldn't be about a portion of people wanting to have fun, it should be about every player getting the best experience possible, not just getting stomped because they refuse to join a mainstream guild." 

This is subject to your opinion and hence doesnt make true or false. Games are to be played the way a player so chooses, not according to what you think is right or wrong. I will so though, every large guild iv ever seen in a open-world pvp game eventually collapses do to lack of resources and ego's. 

 

We cannot tell your friend why he/she should or should not buy the game - Games will have zergs, and if thats your reason for not gaming, then maybe stick to a more theme-park style mmo. But please don't suggest the community owes you a dept of fun. 

 

At the end of the day, you do not HAVE to lpay in a campaign with zerg guilds. 

Ok but what I am saying is that I think everyone can agree that they dislike getting all of your resources taken and getting stomped on. "Theme park" styled MMOs are the ones that contain zergs, this MMO seems different than others. Since when have I suggested that the community owes me fun, I'm just inputting my opinion in order to make the game more enjoyable for me and the player base that is anti-zerg.

Edited by Gagzer

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8 minutes ago, Gagzer said:

"Personally, I have always liked fighting the Uncle Bobs.  

Some of my best game experiences come from knocking dominant players and guilds off their perches and popping their over inflated ego balloons.

Being the underdog can be a fun thing in and of itself."

 

True but that might not be the case for all players, I can still see how that would be fun though.

Fortunately, there will be many campaign world to chose from.  If they hit 30k of players, a rather small number for a successful MMO, I could see that subdividing into 10 separate 3k population worlds easily.

Plenty of room for everyone's favorite brand of play.  

No guild is going to dominate in every band, so if getting the best resources isn't critical to you, and if you're only playing against similarly equipped players why would it,  simply play in one restricted to 3 (order,chaos, balance) or 12 (Gods) teams, and avoid the guild dominated dregs.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Fortunately, there will be many campaign world to chose from.  If they hit 30k of players, a rather small number for a successful MMO, I could see that subdividing into 10 separate 3k population worlds easily.

Plenty of room for everyone's favorite brand of play.  

No guild is going to dominate in every band, so if getting the best resources isn't critical to you, and if you're only playing against similarly equipped players why would it,  simply play in one restricted to 3 (order,chaos, balance) or 12 (Gods) teams, and avoid the guild dominated dregs.

I guess we can just hope for a good amount of campaign worlds.

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3 minutes ago, Gagzer said:

Ok but what I am saying is that I think everyone can agree that they dislike getting all of your resources taken and getting stomped on. "Theme park" styled MMOs are the ones that contain zergs, this MMO seems different than others. Since when have I suggested that the community owes me fun, I'm just inputting my opinion in order to make the game more enjoyable for me and the player base that is anti-zerg.

Anti zerg guilds and players thrive on destroying zerg guilds, not look for or suggest ways to prevent them from existing. 

 

CF is a more hardcore, niche style pvp game, not another tab targeting pvp flagging game. there will be harsh realities that players like you and your friend MUST adjust too if you're to have fun here. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gagzer said:

I guess we can just hope for a good amount of campaign worlds.

I honestly think that many people yammering on about MASSIVE worlds and MASSIVE battles are fantasizing about something that will not be as much fun as they think it is.

Smaller worlds, (1-3k), and smaller teams (100-300), seem to me to be more fun simply because you can get involved with the people, and not be some nameless drone lost in a sea in a battle your contributions have little influence in.

I don't know of any real time action game to date that actually has those kinds of massive numbers people are pining for, so I doubt the entertainment value of scale is a grand as many think it is. EvE doesn't count for me, because those fights are not heavily reflex driven, and I have been told turn into slide picture shows of "my numbers vs your numbers" after enough people get involved.

Sounds good on paper, but in execution, I'm not so sure.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

I honestly think that many people yammering on about MASSIVE worlds and MASSIVE battles are fantasizing about something that will not be as much fun as they think it is.

Smaller worlds, (1-3k), and smaller teams (100-300), seem to me to be more fun simply because you can get involved with the people, and not be some nameless drone lost in a sea in a battle your contributions have little influence in.

I don't know of any game to date that actually has those kinds of massive numbers people are pining for, so I doubt the entertainment value of scale is a grand as many think it is.

Sounds good on paper, but in execution, I'm not so sure.

I always enjoy smaller worlds because of how immersive they can be.

3 minutes ago, QuasiDoc said:

Anti zerg guilds and players thrive on destroying zerg guilds, not look for or suggest ways to prevent them from existing. 

 

CF is a more hardcore, niche style pvp game, not another tab targeting pvp flagging game. there will be harsh realities that players like you and your friend MUST adjust too if you're to have fun here. 

 

These "Harsh realities" you speak of shouldn't just be a large amount of players ruining the game for people, there should be a balance to it. You're talking about adjustment, but I'm trying to discuss a way that can be fun for everyone, not just for people who either like to fight zergs or don't

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2 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I honestly think that many people yammering on about MASSIVE worlds and MASSIVE battles are fantasizing about something that will not be as much fun as they think it is.

Smaller worlds, (1-3k), and smaller teams (100-300), seem to me to be more fun simply because you can get involved with the people, and not be some nameless drone lost in a sea in a battle your contributions have little influence in.

I don't know of any game to date that actually has those kinds of massive numbers people are pining for, so I doubt the entertainment value of scale is a grand as many think it is.

Sounds good on paper, but in execution, I'm not so sure.

This is pretty close to what i think as well - i can see 200-400 players in any one campaign. If you're allied with any one faction, then the zerg feel would feel rather small. 

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3 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I honestly think that many people yammering on about MASSIVE worlds and MASSIVE battles are fantasizing about something that will not be as much fun as they think it is.

Smaller worlds, (1-3k), and smaller teams (100-300), seem to me to be more fun simply because you can get involved with the people, and not be some nameless drone lost in a sea in a battle your contributions have little influence in.

I don't know of any real time action game to date that actually has those kinds of massive numbers people are pining for, so I doubt the entertainment value of scale is a grand as many think it is. EvE doesn't count for me, because those fights are not heavily reflex driven, and I have been told turn into slide picture shows of "my numbers vs your numbers" after enough people get involved.

Sounds good on paper, but in execution, I'm not so sure.

People imagine epic battles like some sort of LOTR movie or something, but the reality of it is that large scale battles are rarely ever organized on a respectable level, nor do they have smooth and clean performance. 

But it's just mental gymnastics people play, they tell themselves a battle was epic because it had X amount of players.  Even if the reality was a slide show rubberbanding mess.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Just now, VIKINGNAIL said:

People imagine epic battles like some sort of LOTR movie or something, but the reality of it is that large scale battles are rarely ever organized on a respectable level, nor do they have smooth and clean performance. 

But it's just mental gymnastics people play, they tell themselves a battle was epic because it had X amount of players.  Even if the reality was a slide show rubberbanding mess.

Even though, I just have one more qualm. Although large-scale battles can't be organized within a video game most of the time, a large amount of unorganized players can exist. I still believe that there will be some way to balance all of this though.

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1 minute ago, Gagzer said:

I always enjoy smaller worlds because of how immersive they can be.

These "Harsh realities" you speak of shouldn't just be a large amount of players ruining the game for people, there should be a balance to it. You're talking about adjustment, but I'm trying to discuss a way that can be fun for everyone, not just for people who either like to fight zergs or don't

Your objective was to come in here and look for reasons why your friend should or should not play CF, not look for common ground. Simply put, this may not be the game for you.

 

Much of the design of this game comes from Shadow Bane - Most vets of that game consider CF to be SB 2.0 In short, you're entering a community that has been around for many years, and the game being designed revolves around that past experience. 

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1 minute ago, QuasiDoc said:

Your objective was to come in here and look for reasons why your friend should or should not play CF, not look for common ground. Simply put, this may not be the game for you.

 

Much of the design of this game comes from Shadow Bane - Most vets of that game consider CF to be SB 2.0 In short, you're entering a community that has been around for many years, and the game being designed revolves around that past experience. 

I'm trying to look for common ground by asking this question and seeing if there is a good response to it, I've been representing my friend here all this time because zergs never really seem to bother me. I'm just trying to convince my friend to play so I took to the forums to find a good answer to my question.

 

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1 minute ago, Gagzer said:

I'm trying to look for common ground by asking this question and seeing if there is a good response to it, I've been representing my friend here all this time because zergs never really seem to bother me. I'm just trying to convince my friend to play so I took to the forums to find a good answer to my question.

 

Then i suggest you and your friend head over to the Q and A for answers on these questions. Utube may also have valuable answers to your concerns. 

Edited by QuasiDoc

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26 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

No, it is true, if you are able to gather so many high skilled players together that you can steam roll everyone in a game with a high skill-ceiling then you deserve to win.

However, if you do it in a low skill-ceiling game then you didn't do anything skillful, and don't really deserve to be rewarded for doing things that aren't really skillful. 

Also crowfall doesn't have a high skill-ceiling for many reasons outside of simply being pre-alpha.  Some of the design decisions currently favor a lower skill-ceiling.

I think that, buy design, the most important type of skill involved in CF is the ability to influence social dynamics.  I don't think someone who really only loves arena style games will enjoy CF that much or appreciate its complexity, because the "skill-ceiling" is not approached through small group twitch.    


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Just now, Regulus said:

I think that, buy design, the most important type of skill involved in CF is the ability to influence social dynamics.  I don't think someone who really only loves arena style games will enjoy CF that much or appreciate its complexity, because the "skill-ceiling" is not approached through small group twitch.    

That also brings up the debate over whether MMOs should be based off of skill or grinding and leveling. I believe that they should be entirely skill based but knowledge should be incorporated into that skill.

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1 minute ago, Gagzer said:

That also brings up the debate over whether MMOs should be based off of skill or grinding and leveling. I believe that they should be entirely skill based but knowledge should be incorporated into that skill.

Well crowfall won't be majority focused on skill, but it can still be a whole lot higher than what it is now.  Right now it is below even the standard mmorpgs, let alone setting itself apart as some great pvp centric mmorpg.

Making a pvp centric mmorpg with a low skill-ceiling is a recipe for a crappy experience. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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3 minutes ago, Gagzer said:

That also brings up the debate over whether MMOs should be based off of skill or grinding and leveling. I believe that they should be entirely skill based but knowledge should be incorporated into that skill.

https://crowfall.com/en/faq/gameplay/

Above is a link to the FAQ section and should answer many of your questions. 

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3 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

...

Making a pvp centric mmorpg with a low skill-ceiling is a recipe for a crappy experience. 

Well, there is the matter of opinion, too.  Also, with the options brought about disciplines one might be able to make their personal play experience as difficult and complex as they like, if they find it to be fun or advantageous.  Finally, this:

Quote

1. HOW WILL COMBAT “FEEL” IN CROWFALL?

In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).

 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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5 minutes ago, Regulus said:

Well, there is the matter of opinion, too.  Also, with the options brought about disciplines one might be able to make their personal play experience as difficult and complex as they like, if they find it to be fun or advantageous.  Finally, this:

 

You can say it's opinion, but certain things will fail in the current gaming climate.  What they do have going for them is their aim is low as far as target subscriber numbers.  But the game isn't going to really leave a mark on the genre.  I thought they were trying to innovate here, not just make a quiet throwback for click-to-move shadowbane players. 

It was also "opinion" that the old version of combat would sink the game if they stuck with it.  The reality of it is some opinions have much more wisdom and experience behind them, some opinions project and predict more accurately. 

What is crowfall going to accomplish if it is supposed to be pvp-centric but the pvp requires less skill than mainstream games that most pvpers are used to?


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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16 minutes ago, Regulus said:

Well, there is the matter of opinion, too.  Also, with the options brought about disciplines one might be able to make their personal play experience as difficult and complex as they like, if they find it to be fun or advantageous.  Finally, this:

 

 

8 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You can say it's opinion, but certain things will fail in the current gaming climate.  What they do have going for them is their aim is low as far as target subscriber numbers.  But the game isn't going to really leave a mark on the genre.  I thought they were trying to innovate here, not just make a quiet throwback for click-to-move shadowbane players. 

It was also "opinion" that the old version of combat would sink the game if they stuck with it.  The reality of it is some opinions have much more wisdom and experience behind them, some opinions project and predict more accurately. 

What is crowfall going to accomplish if it is supposed to be pvp-centric but the pvp requires less skill than mainstream games that most pvpers are used to?

You guys have significantly gone off-topic, which tends to happen when too much has been said. 

 

The OP's question was regarding his friend and fear of dealing with zergs, not about how the combat will feel or any of the other stuff. 

 

The bottom line is, we are a year or more away from release and none of us have any idea how its all gonna work. BUT!, the FAQ section should give them a better idea of what they're walking in to. 

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43 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I honestly think that many people yammering on about MASSIVE worlds and MASSIVE battles are fantasizing about something that will not be as much fun as they think it is.

Smaller worlds, (1-3k), and smaller teams (100-300), seem to me to be more fun simply because you can get involved with the people, and not be some nameless drone lost in a sea in a battle your contributions have little influence in.

I don't know of any real time action game to date that actually has those kinds of massive numbers people are pining for, so I doubt the entertainment value of scale is a grand as many think it is. EvE doesn't count for me, because those fights are not heavily reflex driven, and I have been told turn into slide picture shows of "my numbers vs your numbers" after enough people get involved.

Sounds good on paper, but in execution, I'm not so sure.

Yeah agree, there is definitely a sweet spot as far as numbers and still feeling like an individual goes. Played Warhammer online and it was just basically blob vs blob, though it had more to do with the way the system was set up ie you got points for capturing keeps but pretty much nothing for holding them, but still you never really felt like individually you mattered at all when the numbers in the blob got bigger.

So for me when I think "large scale battles" its less to do with the exact numbers ie 50v50 100v100 and more to do with how does the combat scale up as well to ensure that players still feel like an individual and not just a number in the blob vs the other blob

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