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Character creation overhaul - Official discussion thread

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Does it strike anyone else odd that the Advantages are all negative numbers, and the Disadvantages all positive?

its the Crazy Blair math again ? 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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As long as they stick heavily to intriguing/unique augmentations with the A/D system, it will be awesome. If it ends up being 90% extra stat math, it will be dumb and horrible.

Many games have done the whole "quad-TRILLIONS of combinations!!!" thing, never to realize that there end up being effectively a few hundred useful/significant ones. If you let someone pick 5 of this thing, or 4 of this thing, or 3 of this thing... Etc... It doesn't intuitively feel like a bunch of choices to the human mind. It feels like 1 choice that's adjustable. And adjustment is great, but it's only SO fun. You play the efficiency game, then you're done with your fun. You ruled out the majority of the adjustment settings as not necessarily bad, but less-significantly good/useful than several others.

Think of it this way: if you had a room fan with 100 different fan speed settings, you probably would only ever use 3-5 tops. "I want it to be low-ish." Maybe 1 in 10 million people has the brain to think, "hmm... I'm definitely feeling a fan speed of exactly 27 today."

So, please keep that in mind, Ace. I know how useful and awesome the spreadsheets are, but make sure one step in the evaluation of ANYTHING you're implementing has you retreat from the Forest of Data for a bit and just tackle it purely as a gamer. One tempers the other. 8)

Glad the progress is still flowing. Keep it up! ^_^!


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2 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Does it strike anyone else odd that the Advantages are all negative numbers, and the Disadvantages all positive?

It's in relation to the pool of points you have. But after rethinking they could approach zero instead of the max.

Edited by Zachdidit

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Does it strike anyone else odd that the Advantages are all negative numbers, and the Disadvantages all positive?

I believe you have a pool of "points" to spend.  Selecting an advantage removes (negative) points from your pool.  Selecting a disadvantage grants (positive) more points.

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Just now, Lephys said:

As long as they stick heavily to intriguing/unique augmentations with the A/D system, it will be awesome. If it ends up being 90% extra stat math, it will be dumb and horrible.

Many games have done the whole "quad-TRILLIONS of combinations!!!" thing, never to realize that there end up being effectively a few hundred useful/significant ones. If you let someone pick 5 of this thing, or 4 of this thing, or 3 of this thing... Etc... It doesn't intuitively feel like a bunch of choices to the human mind. It feels like 1 choice that's adjustable. And adjustment is great, but it's only SO fun. You play the efficiency game, then you're done with your fun. You ruled out the majority of the adjustment settings as not necessarily bad, but less-significantly good/useful than several others.

Think of it this way: if you had a room fan with 100 different fan speed settings, you probably would only ever use 3-5 tops. "I want it to be low-ish." Maybe 1 in 10 million people has the brain to think, "hmm... I'm definitely feeling a fan speed of exactly 27 today."

So, please keep that in mind, Ace. I know how useful and awesome the spreadsheets are, but make sure one step in the evaluation of ANYTHING you're implementing has you retreat from the Forest of Data for a bit and just tackle it purely as a gamer. One tempers the other. 8)

Glad the progress is still flowing. Keep it up! ^_^!

Reminds me of path of exile, where people thought the skill tree was so robust, but really there were very few actual options for efficient builds. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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5 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Reminds me of path of exile, where people thought the skill tree was so robust, but really there were very few actual options for efficient builds. 

Borderlands comes to mind for me. So many useless guns in that game...

"Shotgun: uses 4 rounds per shot. Ammo capacity: 4 rounds. Special attribute: fires as fast as you can pull the trigger! 8D"

But hey... They had oodles of "options." 8)

That's a bit more the "randomization"'s fault, though. Same over-arching idea, though. Make your system ACTUALLY robust in a focused manner, and not just mathematical-possibility robust.

Edited by Lephys
Extra thought...

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4 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Does it strike anyone else odd that the Advantages are all negative numbers, and the Disadvantages all positive?

No, because from our pool of points available, the advantages take away from that pool and the disadvantages give back to that pool; it's the same system that Shadowbe used.  If I have 10 points, and take a -5 rune, then I only have 5 points left to spend on other advantages.  The cost for the runes is what you are questioning, however the actual stat increase will be in a positive and different from the cost of the rune.

@jtoddcoleman When will we get to see what stats do what for each race/class?  With A/D becoming a reality, we will need that information; otherwise we are guessing at what we are choosing.

This is making the game so much more RPGish and fun.  One of the best updates I've seen in awhile.


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2 minutes ago, Teufel said:

No, because from our pool of points available, the advantages take away from that pool and the disadvantages give back to that pool; it's the same system that Shadowbe used.  If I have 10 points, and take a -5 rune, then I only have 5 points left to spend on other advantages.  The cost for the runes is what you are questioning, however the actual stat increase will be in a positive and different from the cost of the rune.

@jtoddcoleman When will we get to see what stats do what for each race/class?  With A/D becoming a reality, we will need that information; otherwise we are guessing at what we are choosing.

This is making the game so much more RPGish and fun.  One of the best updates I've seen in awhile.

Ohhh, I get it now.

It's not +5 STR or -5 STR, it's +/-5 to Advantage/Disadvantage point pool.

Going to be interesting to see how many or if advanced vessels end up with more base points for this pool.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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11 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Does it strike anyone else odd that the Advantages are all negative numbers, and the Disadvantages all positive?

No, you start with a positive pool of advantage points and spend them (-) on the advantages you want.  Disadvantages add points to the pool.   This is the same as Shadowbanes starting rune system and it is most excellent in giving diverse build capabilities.

It also allows the standard human race choice as getting more Advantage points in its initial build at the cost of giving up other strong racial passives.  Humans are more generic but get more starting characteristic choices...

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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50 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Well I mean things like advantages, disadvantages, vessel quality, disciplines, etc the whole lot. 

It makes the only really permanent choices we have in the passive skill-training, which has been explained to be more a passive stat gain system.

Welcome to the last year and a half or so. What do you think we've been talking about? All your customization revolves around vessels and crafting, and yea, I think it will be a problem eventually. Temporary worlds was the original pitch, temporary everything tho is severely pushing it.

Edited by Helix

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Ohhh, I get it now.

It's not +5 STR or -5 STR, it's +/-5 to Advantage/Disadvantage point pool.

 

Exactly; it gives them the flexibility to give us runes like Ambidexterity, or other non-stat gain runes.  For instance "Raised by Stoneborn" is a -5 cost to the rune pool, but may give +10 to STR. (This is only a take on the system, please do not take the value as anything related to the actual rune)  They could make ambidexterity a -25 point cost on the rune pool, but it gives the benefit of being able to equip two different weapons.


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44 minutes ago, moneda said:

Boy... Nethari is pretty much a "Confessor or Bust" pick. :lol:

Interesting to see Advan & Disadvan again. Makes it seem vessel swapping will be much more infrequent than many people had been imagining. 

I read this as a statement that different combinations can yield differing amounts of Creation Points. Is that the case? :o

Yep...   expect Human classes to get the most and specialty races with unique racial benefits (passives, powers, gliding) to start with much less.  


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53 minutes ago, Zybak said:

I see that the High-Elf race isn't greyed out. 

INTENSE SPECULATION INCOMING!

Exactly. Now just Bering Assassin online as well and we are good to go. :-)

Thrilled about this new system and how quickly things are being introduced for testing now. Thank you.

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But can I make an stealthing ambidextrous dual psiblade wielding shade mage warlock?

 

or a High dex shade fighter warlock blademaster with Lucky )

 

Or a spear wielding shade mage assassin wyrmslayer?


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