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Skill mechanics - Official discussion thread

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18 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

That can work. If everyone can que 2 pips it means that a player only needs to login everyday or something like that.

That seems... fine?  I understand wanting to push free players toward daily login and that's a fine, normal thing for an online game to do.  But more often than that is ridiculous and creating a situation where free players can't advance skills at the same rate as VIP players is unacceptable.

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2 minutes ago, srathor said:

Wonderful Idea, piss poor implementation. 
- The story of Crowfall

Exactly. The more I think about this the more it turns me off. Your telling me I cant even get 1 full skill trained without having to log in (as a non-vip). Like I said I am VIP (5 years worth) but I do think this will turn off the non-vip (who still payed 60 dollars for the game). I know in Eve I was disgruntled when I missed my skill queue cut off when it was just 24 hours and wasted time not training. 

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IMO - VIP's should be able to queue skills out as far as they have VIP months tied to their accounts.

So if I have 60 months worth of VIP attached to my account I should be able to queue 60 months worth of skills because I'm paying for it. 

Non-VIP's can set a phone reminder and wake up in the middle of the night and achieve the same result. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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I actually would like to see a system where 18 hours is the standard & higher-tier skills have more pips + 2-pip queue for non-VIP, with an increasing number of pips per tier.

T1 - 4
T2 - 6
T3 - 8

etc.

 That'd push daily login for free players like every other B2P game on the market, create a simple visual for training times, and bend the advancement curve in a more beneficial direction for everyone.

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2 minutes ago, canvox said:

That seems... fine?  I understand wanting to push free players toward daily login and that's a fine, normal thing for an online game to do.  But more often than that is ridiculous and creating a situation where free players can't advance skills at the same rate as VIP players is unacceptable.

This is if the 14 hours  (which is an average for tier 1 1-100 in the old system) in the old system that first 20% was like 3 hours. If they have gone to a linear skill queue curve then yes 1 every 14. If not that first pip is like 3.5 hours meaning you need to stay online or log back in and queue the second one. 

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7 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

You guys are totally missing the point. You are telling me that nobody minds waking 2 Am just to click a button? Or wasting 6 hour of training because you was at work and being constantly being left behind?

That will get tiresome quickly and i bet my money that the majority of the players will go away after putting up with that. Very few people will put money after being ignored like that.

When that is the case I just switch to another train then switch back when I'm awake taking full advantage of my sleepy time.

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6 minutes ago, Zybak said:

I would like to see the VIP benefits further extended to allow you to queue an entire new skill when you hit your 5th pip. 

As for this being an "evil" mechanic I see where you're coming from but I don't really agree. I feel like this system is completely manageable and fair for non VIP players that are only playing one account. Plus it's a massive nerf to the people planning to multi-account the hell out of the game which means that player choice and specialization will feel even better.

The reality is that the game needs a continuous cash flow and it's much better for both the players and the developers if the cash flow is consistent through subscriptions. We know exactly how much we're paying every month and ACE knows what they're getting each month. With VIP being the primary long term cash flow it means the developers are incentivized to make content for the game rather than content for a cash shop.

Sure there's the EK stuff but ACE has said themselves that they aren't expecting too many people to fork over the money for the big ticket items. Also all of the EK store items are recycled from things that we can build/use in the Campaign Worlds.

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs! This is more of an in skill queuing.
As features come online we will continually add new aspects to VIP. Just part of the nature of 2 years of development, we can see things much clearer now than when we were looking at the big Kickstarter wish list.

No we didn't make a linear curve, here's the math on a Tier 1 skill-

Pip1 - 2.39hr  Pip2 - 4.67hr Pip3 - 9.14hr Pip4 - 17.94hr Pip5 - 35.2hr

Tier * Hour is how long a Pip will take in this model.

The amount of stat / functionality per Pip is linear, so if you don't want to spend the time maxing a node, move on. (There will remain nodes that require 100% training to see any benefit, the number is limited but it always is an option for us when we are making content)

Talk to some of the older EvE players, they played a system very similar to this for years before the advent of between skill queuing. (except they had to pay and their skills could shut off, leading to much wasted time)

Yes this should all be up in the next new build you all get to play.

End result, much more choice now in advancement, and more value added to VIP.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

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Just now, jokeassjason said:

This is if the 14 hours  (which is an average for tier 1 1-100 in the old system) in the old system that first 20% was like 3 hours. If they have gone to a linear skill queue curve then yes 1 every 14. If not that first pip is like 3.5 hours meaning you need to stay online or log back in and queue the second one. 

The article said 14 so I'm assuming it's 14.

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Just now, thomasblair said:

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs! This is more of an in skill queuing.
As features come online we will continually add new aspects to VIP. Just part of the nature of 2 years of development, we can see things much clearer now than when we were looking at the big Kickstarter wish list.

No we didn't make a linear curve, here's the math on a Tier 1 skill-

Pip1 - 2.39hr  Pip2 - 4.67hr Pip3 - 9.14hr Pip4 - 17.94hr Pip5 - 35.2hr

Tier * Hour is how long a Pip will take in this model.

The amount of stat / functionality per Pip is linear, so if you don't want to spend the time maxing a node, move on. (There will remain nodes that require 100% training to see any benefit, the number is limited but it always is an option for us when we are making content)

Talk to some of the older EvE players, they played a system very similar to this for years before the advent of between skill queuing. (except they had to pay and their skills could shut off, leading to much wasted time)

Yes this should all be up in the next new build you all get to play.

End result, much more choice now in advancement, and more value added to VIP.

This is crazy for non-VIP.  You should use an EVE system from this decade.

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1 minute ago, thomasblair said:

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs! This is more of an in skill queuing.
As features come online we will continually add new aspects to VIP. Just part of the nature of 2 years of development, we can see things much clearer now than when we were looking at the big Kickstarter wish list.

No we didn't make a linear curve, here's the math on a Tier 1 skill-

Pip1 - 2.39hr  Pip2 - 4.67hr Pip3 - 9.14hr Pip4 - 17.94hr Pip5 - 35.2hr

Tier * Hour is how long a Pip will take in this model.

The amount of stat / functionality per Pip is linear, so if you don't want to spend the time maxing a node, move on. (There will remain nodes that require 100% training to see any benefit, the number is limited but it always is an option for us when we are making content)

Talk to some of the older EvE players, they played a system very similar to this for years before the advent of between skill queuing. (except they had to pay and their skills could shut off, leading to much wasted time)

Yes this should all be up in the next new build you all get to play.

End result, much more choice now in advancement, and more value added to VIP.

What a strange scale. Why not pick even hours of some sort?

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Personally i like to check my skills training everyday or every second day at lunch cause all the skills come off around the same time.  With the new system these one pip nodes will come off at odd hours.  Sometimes it may be 3am, some times it may be 11pm, and on weekdays, and weekends i am not staying up to 3am to change a skill.  And I assume most of the player base will not do this either.  This will ,over time, push the non-vip account holders behind the power curve. After a year or two a non-vip account will lose TONS of training time cause they come off at non-optimal hours for your players. 

ACE believes that 20% of their player base will use VIP.  That means 80% of their player base is going to have to deal with this odd timing and fall behind the curve.  Why try to annoy 80% of your player base in to buying VIP.  You should be adding VALUE to VIP, not trying to annoy people in to buying your product.

Edited by Destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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1 minute ago, thomasblair said:

Talk to some of the older EvE players, they played a system very similar to this for years before the advent of between skill queuing. (except they had to pay and their skills could shut off, leading to much wasted time)

Yes this should all be up in the next new build you all get to play.

End result, much more choice now in advancement, and more value added to VIP.

Ask them how much they hated losing time training. And how much they'd hate not having a skill queue now.

It might look like "more value added to VIP" but lots of players are going to see it as a punishment instead. I mean, look at this thread already...

Give non-paying players SOME skill queuing and give VIP players MORE and it will feel like a convenience thing. Making it so non-paying players get none makes it feel like a punishment for not subscribing. A subtle distinction, but one that can have a massive effect on player perception of the game.


Guild Leader of Seeds of War

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It's such a straightforward, common pattern: pay money or daily login.  Many people still consider THIS model exploitative, why would you choose one that's harsher for free players?

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5 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs! This is more of an in skill queuing.
As features come online we will continually add new aspects to VIP. Just part of the nature of 2 years of development, we can see things much clearer now than when we were looking at the big Kickstarter wish list.

No we didn't make a linear curve, here's the math on a Tier 1 skill-

Pip1 - 2.39hr  Pip2 - 4.67hr Pip3 - 9.14hr Pip4 - 17.94hr Pip5 - 35.2hr

Tier * Hour is how long a Pip will take in this model.

The amount of stat / functionality per Pip is linear, so if you don't want to spend the time maxing a node, move on. (There will remain nodes that require 100% training to see any benefit, the number is limited but it always is an option for us when we are making content)

Talk to some of the older EvE players, they played a system very similar to this for years before the advent of between skill queuing. (except they had to pay and their skills could shut off, leading to much wasted time)

Yes this should all be up in the next new build you all get to play.

End result, much more choice now in advancement, and more value added to VIP.

So because a game was annoying and frustrating years ago, it's fine for CF to be annoying now?

That argument just doesn't hold any water.

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

So because a game was annoying and frustrating years ago, it's fine for CF to be annoying now?

That argument just doesn't hold any water.

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs!

Did you not read the first line? Or just highlight the portion that fit your argument?


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

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Just now, thomasblair said:

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs!

Did you not read the first line? Or just highlight the portion that fit your argument?

You're not reading anyone's posts.  Nobody's talking about VIPs.

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2 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Queuing between skill nodes is another feature on the wishlist for VIPs!

Did you not read the first line? Or just highlight the portion that fit your argument?

I read it. I took "older EvE players" to be in the context of both VIP and Non-VIP, since in early day's EvE that distinction did not exist.

Specifically, having ANYONE have to wake up at off hours to mess with skills is just bad.  Once a day, sometime within a 20 hour window, fine, but 14hrs and other irregular hours just makes no sense.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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