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bassa

Okey. Lets Have A Poll. Do We Want To Have Unlimited (Or Limited By The Game Amount Active Skills To Use) Or Limited By Deck 8-12 Skills?

  

135 members have voted

  1. 1. Unlimited active (combat) skills system (UO, DF and even WoW) vs Limited (GW2, SotA and DFUW)

    • Unlimited
      72
    • Limited
      63


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I'd be cool with four carefully considered, well-balanced skills per archetype. Having a diversified skillset should be about being in a well rounded group, not having 40 skills to choose from. Even a full hotbar is pushing it. Each and every skill should have a strong reason for being in the game, not just to kill time while your ult cools down.

 

Four may be a little too focused and entering moba territory, I'd imagine we are looking at a game with somewhere between 8-12.  That seems to be the ideal number for mmorpgs to keep classes tightly focused while also giving them enough diversity to create interesting rotations.  There are other thinks that will greatly accentuate it all like resource management for individual characters.

 

Yeah, I could see that. Four is nice for manually aimed combat because then you don't have to move your hand as much to activate skills, but like you said it's probably not quite enough to differentiate between archetypes. I'm also hoping the combat won't be twitchy, which would make it less of a problem to remove your hand from the wasd keys.

Edited by txteclipse

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I'm honestly disappointed that there are so many people voting in favour of a limited skill system.

 

What skills you use should be determined by your playstyle, the situation of play, and what gear you wear. Not by some predetermined restrictions forced upon you by the game itself.

 

Just look at the encumbrance system of DFO where wearing heavy gear gave you a high encumbrance thereby making your magic spells much weaker and slower to cast. There was a large diversity in playstyle and even then it could have been much more diverse had they done a better job at balancing specific spells/skills, which I'm sure the team behind Crowfall will be able to do.

Edited by Kaminaxus

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I'm honestly disappointed that there are so many people voting in favour of a limited skill system.

 

What skills you use should be determined by your playstyle, the situation of play, and what gear you wear. Not by some predetermined restrictions forced upon you by the game itself.

 

Just look at the encumbrance system of DFO where wearing heavy gear gave you a high encumbrance thereby making your magic spells much weaker and slower to cast. There was a large diversity in playstyle and even then it could have been much more diverse had they done a better job at balancing specific spells/skills, which I'm sure the team behind Crowfall will be able to do.

U my good sir, are a genius.. i wish others would listen to u.

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There was a large diversity in playstyle and even then it could have been much more diverse had they done a better job at balancing specific spells/skills, which I'm sure the team behind Crowfall will be able to.

 

Game balance is my primary concern. I've never seen a dev team able to properly balance a large number of skills. Character builds tend to centralize to a couple of "optimal" sets that everyone ends up using.

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I'm honestly disappointed that there are so many people voting in favour of a limited skill system.

 

What skills you use should be determined by your playstyle, the situation of play, and what gear you wear. Not by some predetermined restrictions forced upon you by the game itself.

 

Just look at the encumbrance system of DFO where wearing heavy gear gave you a high encumbrance thereby making your magic spells much weaker and slower to cast. There was a large diversity in playstyle and even then it could have been much more diverse had they done a better job at balancing specific spells/skills, which I'm sure the team behind Crowfall will be able to do.

The thing I wrote few pages before and I completely agree with you. Seems modern gamers need guidelines and frames made by game mechanics so some will claim themselves the best PvPer just cause their classes are not ballanced and not just because they are good enough to fight an equal opponent. You dont need to think that much to create your own build and not just take all skills wich are allowed by your class and spam them. It is sad

Edited by bassa

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I'm honestly disappointed that there are so many people voting in favour of a limited skill system.

 

What skills you use should be determined by your playstyle, the situation of play, and what gear you wear. Not by some predetermined restrictions forced upon you by the game itself.

 

Just look at the encumbrance system of DFO where wearing heavy gear gave you a high encumbrance thereby making your magic spells much weaker and slower to cast. There was a large diversity in playstyle and even then it could have been much more diverse had they done a better job at balancing specific spells/skills, which I'm sure the team behind Crowfall will be able to do.

 

Following that same logic, archetypes shouldn't exist at all, as they are restrictions forced upon you by the game itself. 

 

In action combat systems you are attempting to add movement and aim as variables in the tactics.  You are also attempting to give the player a more engaged experience keeping their eyes towards the center of the screen and not staring so much at a large amount of action bars and the CD timers that go with it.

 

When movement and aim are an important part of a game there are many many real-time adjustments that must be made throughout the course of combat, these take a lot of thought depending what skill-level you are playing at.  Adding too many abilities to factor in on top of that is just going to be too overwhelming/frustrating for most players.

 

Things like this are just some of the many considerations.  Another reason action combat also doesn't have too many active abilities is because it is often made with consoles in mind. 

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I'm wondering if there are 2 different conversations going on in this thread right now.

 

One is about how many skills you can use via hotbars at the same time.

 

Two is about how many skills you can build up until they are maxed out.

 

I think the thread was about how many skills we should have access to on our hotbars so I'll answer that. I don't want the game limiting in any way the amount of skills that I have access to if I've already earned those skills. I don't want to be limited to 8 skills in a fight. I want to use my skills intelligently and be able to select from as wide a range as possible during combat.

 

I could care less if a lot of people use the same rotation because I don't often use rotations if the game has a diverse and challenging skill set. I make my combat decisions based on what health I have left, what health my opponent has, my power available, how close I am to downing my opponent, my cooldowns, what will have the most impact with the least cost, my team's status and the list goes on and on.

 

Limiting me to 8 skills only feels like holding my hand ingame. Don't want it.

This. Some people are confusing unlimited available action skills with unlimited skill gain. let resource management be the limiting factor for people's rotations and give them access to all action abilities they've skilled up.

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I'm hoping the skills system focuses on embellishing and customizing skills, a complex variation of actions mapped into mouse and directional sequencing make the characters easier to control, it also allows the controls to be mapped to a controller for comfortable play and cross platform accessibility.

 

Like a Zelda game or Lords of Shadow, you attack, sequence attack, hold and release attack, combine actions from right and left mouse button, jump and attack, lunge and attack, than mix and sequence these features into dozens of attack variations.

 

The action preformed can be different per archetype, weapon, or sequence customization, abilities can be built with a variety of execution conditions and dangers so it's more about attacking at the effective time in an effective manner rather than all sorts of colorful skill descriptions.

 

A good action game needs natural feeling operation.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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The thing I wrote few pages before and I completely agree with you. Seems modern gamers need guidelines and frames made by game mechanics so some will claim themselves the best PvPer just cause their classes are not ballanced and not just because they are good enough to fight an equal opponent. You dont need to think that much to create your own build and not just take all skills wich are allowed by your class and spam them. It is sad

 

I'm afraid I disagree. You think having all the skills brings balance? Of course it does, if everyone's the same there's nothing to balance. It's just flat and unchanging.

 

Allowing all skills reduces diversity, increases grinding necessary,

 

Let's make a clear distinction here. I'm in favour of players having access to all skills. I don't mind if their are classes/archtypes with tendencies to excel in some skills, and lag behind in other skills. Ideally there will be an option between a class with tendencies and a plain template. From the look of the user creations screenshots that will already be in place through advantages/disadvantages.

 

I also believe that players should be able to raise all skills to a certain degree. But I am completely against maxing out of all skills. Let players specialise or be jack of all trades. But don't let them ace the lot.

 

If you can max out all skills just remove levels from skills and spare us the time-wasting grind. But that would suck ass.

 

And just for the record, DF is not exactly some shining example of success.

Edited by stubs01

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Not sure how OP correlates limited action bar with Casual play. In the few games I have played with limited action bars, were also action based combat and it took more strategy and planning to pick and choose the right combinations of skills and builds for the right situation. Things that don't really lend well to casual style of play and at the least it'll take a casual leaning player longer to get used to limited bars and action combat. When I think of more casual leaning I think of WoW with its unlimited bars and being able to literally fill your screen with ability buttons.

 

With CF going for an action combat system its likely it will have limited skill bars like most other action based games. After playing lots of these games def prefer the limited bars, action based combat much more.

Edited by pang

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I think you should be able to drop skills and add new ones but I don't think we should have everything. I'd prefer more then 8 skills, I really liked archeage's system that allowed you to pick between passive and active abilities.

 

There was no freedom in darkfall, everyone played the same thing. We were all forced to fight the same way. There was some variance in playstyles but they mostly revolved around doing the same things. So many abilities weren't used/wasted because other abilities were better. 

 

Players can actually play as Melee in DFUW because everyone can't use the best melee weapons and use the same melee abilities. 

 

RPG's are usually about having a role/playstyle and building a character around that.

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100% Agree

 

Unlock lots of skills, but only 5-10 skills available at a time  (i.e. GW2 and ESO).

 

Makes picking and choosing your weapon/ utility skills much more strategic and allows us to each be different.

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The thought of ppl wanting to max out all skills reminds of a thread I had started against it in DF forums titled The Elusive Choice.

 

Can't see it anymore since I unsubbed and can't remember what was written exactly, but just remembering its existence makes my blood boil ...

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Unlimited skills is a horrible system IMO. For those who might not have tried the original Darkfall the barrier to entry was INSANLY high. I was still missing skills considered to be damn near essential such as Wall of Force and some of the better bunny hopping skills after 6+ months of grinding.

 

I HAD to upgrade my gaming equipment to be competitive and I HAD to learn to program my own macros to be competitive. In some ways I am greatful to the original DF for this because the skills I learned there made me better at every game I've played since but personal preference, juggling a reasonable number of skills actually leads to more engaging combat that feels more fluid.

 

Finally I'm sure you all remember what class EVERYONE played in the original DF. Hybrid. Because until destroyers were implemented there were no other options, and a super powerful character that can fight w/ melee, ranged, and every single form of magic... who wouldn't play that?


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Which game has limited skills and it is not casual? And in DF where everyone could be the same were lots of different builds and everyone played the way he wanted to.

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