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Custom Chat and Friendly Fire


Haven
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I wanted to further give my opinion on game aspects like I did here: https://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/6984-if-you-are-new-to-crowfall-introduce-yourself-here/&page=61#comment-353563

I don't know the costs associated with this but I'll mention just so it's known the option is there. In the sort of game where constant player coordination is a thing, custom chats might be great for enjoying gameplay. To explain, we might have area chat, and guild chat is pretty much a given, whether we have faction chat or not I don't know yet, but neither of those allows you to make custom chats. Imagine having a chat where you need to be invited to be in and has a title, but you can both be in a guild/party and in that custom chat. A group of crafters might use it as their trade channel, people with friends spread across guilds or that don't want to discuss with friends in faction chat can use it to keep in touch. It depends on if a campaign would have a lot of players on/talking at once or not. (if not a faction chat should be fine) An example of such a system is in FFXIV where they call them "linkshells". You can create and disband these chats at will, and can be part of 8 in total there.

The other thing I read about is friendly fire. People seem to be concluding friendly fire is the sort of mechanic that benefits the "hardcore", but I think there's nothing that feels more confusing, disorganized and unfair than losing a fight by virtue of numbers, lag or gear stats. What I'm imagining is a group of 200 or over players, casting their big aoes and ranged hits wherever they see red and hoping it hits a good amount of enemies. I feel like without friendly fire in a game of mass pvp the amount of random firing and skill effects assaulting screen will make it feel like it's not a real game anymore. I don't like the idea of a faction building a place and then a group of rogue same factioners randomly wrecking everything and everyone just because though.

I figured if there were a way to contain it, it would be by having the system calculate what percentage of a player's skills dpsed/cc-ed enemies or allies, with a certain threshold at which the ratio is checked. So a player would need to deal at least 70-80% dps to enemies instead of allies within either some minutes or damage/cc total. (probably best a damage/cc total) If the rogue ally is caught by system for griefing, they get bound and disabled from acting for a while, given a warning that "The gods are most displeased with you." and then allowed to resume play. If they do it noticeably much then they eventually get kicked from campaign altogether.

Edit:

I guess there'd be some people that would get in way specifically to trigger the condition on other people, so the trigger shouldn't come to a conclusion too fast in a group fight, but we would want it to conclude as fast as possible in a town. So maybe the trigger would have delayed reaction only if you also damaged enemies or mobs (any amount).

Also, I think it would probably be best if structures were except from friendly fire, since it doesn't null the need to aim/position, it would merely make it a lot more difficult to fight at your own base.

 

 

Edited by Haven
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34 minutes ago, Haven said:

The other thing I read about is friendly fire. People seem to be concluding friendly fire is the sort of mechanic that benefits the "hardcore", but I think there's nothing that feels more confusing, disorganized and unfair than losing a fight by virtue of numbers, lag or gear stats.

only vikingnail thinks so :^)

but you know what? if people still want FF upon release ACE can just make a campaign that has FF enabled and everyone is happy!

35 minutes ago, Haven said:

I figured if there were a way to contain it, it would be by having the system calculate what percentage of a player's skills dpsed/cc-ed enemies or allies, with a certain threshold at which the ratio is checked. So a player would need to deal at least 70-80% dps to enemies instead of allies within either some minutes or damage/cc total. (probably best a damage/cc total) If the rogue ally is caught by system for griefing, they get bound and disabled from acting for a while, given a warning that "The gods are most displeased with you." and then allowed to resume play. If they do it noticeably much then they eventually get kicked from campaign altogether.

thats just twisted, waaaay to hard to implement

 

36 minutes ago, Haven said:

custom chats

im pretty sure that ACE is not done yet with the UI and chat specifically, the current chat is just ass

if they just copy WoW´s chat they cant really go wrong, its one of the best things in terms of customizability that has prevailed for years

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3 minutes ago, elvo said:

thats just twisted, waaaay to hard to implement

From a development point of view? (I wouldn't know) There tend to be a lot of finely tuned systems in a game that are complex but are still in because of the value they bring. 

Edited by Haven
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2 minutes ago, Haven said:

From a development point of view? (I wouldn't know) There tend to be a lot of finely tuned systems in a game that are complex but are still in because of the value they bring. 

dunno about how hard it is to code, but balancing would be almost impossible

just make a campaign FF or dont do it, we dont need some kind of middleground on that mechanic

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2 minutes ago, elvo said:

dunno about how hard it is to code, but balancing would be almost impossible

just make a campaign FF or dont do it, we dont need some kind of middleground on that mechanic

While thinking about your claim regarding balance I realized another caveat is that if someone is killing you in a small skirmish you don't want to sit and lose your items waiting for the system to react, so if it were added, there would also need to be protection for your items. And an ally might kill you when you're near dead from enemies just so they don't get items. And the system might not even note them because if you're in a group fight they'll just pad their dps ratio on enemies.

You can indeed make pretty random unintended strategies and there'd be a lot of plugging holes. Maybe it's preferred to have betrayal than this.

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2 hours ago, elvo said:

only vikingnail thinks so :^)

but you know what? if people still want FF upon release ACE can just make a campaign that has FF enabled and everyone is happy!

thats just twisted, waaaay to hard to implement

 

im pretty sure that ACE is not done yet with the UI and chat specifically, the current chat is just ass

if they just copy WoW´s chat they cant really go wrong, its one of the best things in terms of customizability that has prevailed for years

Yes, friendly fire is for more hardcore pvpers, most people are not hardcore pvpers, most do not enjoy friendly fire, crowfall is designed with many rings to be more lenient in that regard, hopefully their "hardcore" ring isn't softened for less skilled players that gravitate away from friendly fire.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Yes, friendly fire is for more hardcore pvpers, most people are not hardcore pvpers, most do not enjoy friendly fire, crowfall is designed with many ringers to be more lenient in that regard, hopefully their "hardcore" ring isn't softened for less skilled players that gravitate away from friendly fire.

ace has all the possibilities up their sleeves to please both hardcore and casuals with different campaign rulesets, its up to them to make use of that but squashing things together with the OPs suggestion is not a good option

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