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Duelist: Other Races


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I'm very interested in Crowfall and the Duelist looks like everything I've wanted to see in a class, but I simply have no interest in playing a hamster. I'd love to see the Duelist class set extended to Humans and Half Elves. 

Until this happens though I don't see myself buying the game. I'm very interested to know why this classic playstyle is locked to only one obscure race. Quite frankly, it makes me wonder about other strange and ultimately poor design decisions that I haven't yet noticed or might be implemented in the future. MMOs are living things, and their success is tied directly to its ability to grow and evolve with an engaging story so the last thing I want to do is invest my time in one with bad direction.

Edited by Baron2009
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Many games have had race/class locks, it worked out fine for them.  Crowfall may not be your cup of tea but this particular aspect of it is not a "poor design decision".  It just happens not to line up with your specific preferences. 

I wouldn't write the game off though, there may be other classes you like and with the robust character customization through things like disciplines you may be able to tailor a class to your exact liking.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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9 minutes ago, Baron2009 said:

I'm very interested in Crowfall and the Duelist looks like everything I've wanted to see in a class, but I simply have no interest in playing a hamster. I'd love to see the Duelist class set extended to Humans and Half Elves. 

Until this happens though I don't see myself buying the game. I'm very interested to know why this classic playstyle is locked to only one obscure race. Quite frankly, it makes me wonder about other strange and ultimately poor design decisions that I haven't yet noticed or might be implemented in the future. MMOs are living things, and their success is tied directly to its ability to grow and evolve with an engaging story so the last thing I want to do is invest my time in one with bad direction.

its mainly at this stage a question of the time to do all the animations being a low priority versus over development, as they are currently very specific to the guin model (as is the whole theme of burrowing which would be hard to translate over to another race)

there is also still the assassin class that covers a similar role which you can play a variety of other races with too

Edited by Tinnis
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Going to pass. The sword/pistol concept is a classic, all the way back to Witch Hunters in Warhammer decades ago, and not to mention pirates. Race restrictions on specific classes in other games are always either still available as part of one of the core fantasy races (human, dwarf, elf, orc) or is a new hybrid class that is very different from classic classes, and for lore reasons is linked to that specific race. And even in those instances, developers still make an effort to make that unique class attached to at least one classic fantasy race as well.

The sword/pistol class is a classic fantasy class, and should be available on a classic fantasy race. Otherwise you are driving away the majority of players (the majority of players in any fantasy game choose either human, dwarf, elf, or orc) - so to make a popular class but then alienate the people who would play it, the designers are literally turning down sales. This is absolutely a design mistake, because those are players that would support growth and money that could go back into development. Poor decisions like this add up and cost the studio money, and eventually prevent games from seeing their full potential, or driving them straight into the ground. The fact that this decision was allowed to make it even this far suggests that the person leading Crowfall's development direction doesn't know what they're doing. Good luck everybody.

PS: Burrowing? The duelist...burrows, underground? Lol. No thanks. 

Edited by Baron2009
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On ‎24‎-‎07‎-‎2017 at 5:59 PM, Baron2009 said:

Going to pass. The sword/pistol concept is a classic, all the way back to Witch Hunters in Warhammer decades ago, and not to mention pirates. Race restrictions on specific classes in other games are always either still available as part of one of the core fantasy races (human, dwarf, elf, orc) or is a new hybrid class that is very different from classic classes, and for lore reasons is linked to that specific race. And even in those instances, developers still make an effort to make that unique class attached to at least one classic fantasy race as well.

The sword/pistol class is a classic fantasy class, and should be available on a classic fantasy race. Otherwise you are driving away the majority of players (the majority of players in any fantasy game choose either human, dwarf, elf, or orc) - so to make a popular class but then alienate the people who would play it, the designers are literally turning down sales. This is absolutely a design mistake, because those are players that would support growth and money that could go back into development. Poor decisions like this add up and cost the studio money, and eventually prevent games from seeing their full potential, or driving them straight into the ground. The fact that this decision was allowed to make it even this far suggests that the person leading Crowfall's development direction doesn't know what they're doing. Good luck everybody.

PS: Burrowing? The duelist...burrows, underground? Lol. No thanks. 

The Guinecean burrows.

Edited by DustFinger

"Las batallas van y vienen pero mis soldados son eternos"

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1 minute ago, Ark_Arkantos said:

 

In general, some classes will be attached to a particular race and gender?

This is correct, in the case of the duelist it is the only class that is attached to only 1 race, so if you want to be a duelist you have to be that 1 race.  Other classes have multiple races to pick from, but still with some limitations. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Its just very frustrating that you put 12 races in a game, and add a wonderful, highly popular playstyle - but lock that playstyle to what is easily the least popular race.

It just makes no sense. If the Guincean burrows thats great, make it a racial trait. But its certainly not worth locking the class over. Add it to humans and half elves, without burrowing. Make minor adjustments if necessary. These are the design concepts that get ironed out in early access. But locking the Warhammer Witch Hunter/ Fantasy Pirate/GW Thief/WoW Outlaw Rogue playstyle to guinnea pigs only, and then ruining a great class with ridiculous gimmicks to match the guinnea pig race, is absolutely a mistake.

Its simple math that a popular class will bring people in, and enjoying leveling up that character will make them stay. So if they don't enjoy the race, they won't enjoy progression, and they won't stay. And by locking it to one race that is easily the least recognizable in comparison to the other fantasy staples that are posted, you drastically cut the number of players that class can appeal to. 

Edited by Baron2009
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11 minutes ago, Baron2009 said:

Its simple math that a popular class will bring people in, and enjoying leveling up that character will make them stay. So if they don't enjoy the race, they won't enjoy progression, and they won't stay. And by locking it to one race that is easily the least recognizable in comparison to the other fantasy staples that are posted, you drastically cut the number of players that class can appeal to. 

Leveling up? Levels in Crowfall? You're in the wrong place.

"Las batallas van y vienen pero mis soldados son eternos"

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5 hours ago, Baron2009 said:

Its just very frustrating that you put 12 races in a game, and add a wonderful, highly popular playstyle - but lock that playstyle to what is easily the least popular race.

It just makes no sense. If the Guincean burrows thats great, make it a racial trait. But its certainly not worth locking the class over. Add it to humans and half elves, without burrowing. Make minor adjustments if necessary. These are the design concepts that get ironed out in early access. But locking the Warhammer Witch Hunter/ Fantasy Pirate/GW Thief/WoW Outlaw Rogue playstyle to guinnea pigs only, and then ruining a great class with ridiculous gimmicks to match the guinnea pig race, is absolutely a mistake.

Its simple math that a popular class will bring people in, and enjoying leveling up that character will make them stay. So if they don't enjoy the race, they won't enjoy progression, and they won't stay. And by locking it to one race that is easily the least recognizable in comparison to the other fantasy staples that are posted, you drastically cut the number of players that class can appeal to. 

It's a matter of time and money. For the last 2 years, we've had archetypes, which means race and class were tied together. You want to be a knight? Have to be human. Want to be a myrmidon? Have to be a minotaur. They were able to split the archetypes into race and class, which they are still working on, but they don't have the time and money to make every possible combination. Post launch, I'm sure they will add more combinations, and I don't doubt that they will add more races for the duelist. 

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That makes sense, though again, the decision to put it on a guinnea pig before anything else strikes me as absurd. But I'll look back into this game when they do get around to unlocking it a bit further.

Don't get me wrong, its cool that certain races might have their own class. Its just a shame such a particularly popular theme is locked to such an unlikely, and for many unlikable, race. 

I'm using leveling up by the way as a placeholder term for character progression in general. If somebody wants to build a grizzled navy captain fighting on land, no amount of equipment acquired will satisfy him if his avatar is a guinnea pig. 

Edited by Baron2009
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On 28.7.2017 at 2:28 AM, Baron2009 said:

That makes sense, though again, the decision to put it on a guinnea pig before anything else strikes me as absurd. But I'll look back into this game when they do get around to unlocking it a bit further.

thats your best bet

 

 

On 28.7.2017 at 2:28 AM, Baron2009 said:

Its just a shame such a particularly popular theme is locked to such an unlikely, and for many unlikable, race. 

what are you basing that on? i haven't heard of alot of people who are not satisfied with the guinea pigs

6XZoThV.jpg

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I'm basing it off of 20+ years of playing fantasy games, and patterns developed over that time. At this point its common knowledge really, but sure I'll post it here, why not.

The vast majority of any playerbase in any fantasy game is Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs. Undead are often high on the list too. Anything else is a minority, every time. Its great to sprinkle in variety, but the iconic fantasy races are iconic for a reason. They have proven the most popular, over the course of decades.

Rogue based classes, including pirate/witch hunter archetypes, are easily among the most popular as well. An MMO takes massive amounts of resources to keep growing, which means that successful mmos make sure core decisions appeal to their widest possible customer pool, to maximize sales and put that money back into the game. 

So breaking down why it only being on a minor race suggests a large problem. Say, you have a class, like rogue, that is popular. You'd assign that a high number value, of people who would want to play it. Now you take a race, like elf, that is popular. You'd also assign that a high number value, people like elves, numbers are numbers. So to maximize playerbase, you multiply the number of people interested in playing a rogue, with the number of people interested in playing an elf, and you get a high number. 

Elf rogue. Just those two words together, pretty stereotypical, right? Popular, proven, etc. Now you take that same class, and instead multiply it by a much lower number. The number of people who will choose guinnea pig over human, this is no contest. So, low number. Your result is that by choosing to lock it onto a guinnea pig first, you drastically reduce the number of people who would play the class. This drastically reduces the number of people who will continue playing the game, which in turn reduces the amount of money the developers will have access to, to put back into the game. And this mistake alone, on one of the most profitable and widest liked class archetypes, on an mmo scale, is quite a lot of money. The reason its an issue is because if the developers don't see this, then who knows how many other choices like this they will make. Even if it were a matter of just time to apply it to other races, whose idea was it to apply it first to a relatively unpopular class? 

This is very concerning as mmos typically are an investment of hundreds of hours. The last thing anyone wants to do is invest hundreds of hours into a game where the direction and prioritization will eventually cost the developers money. It means that you are not going to be given back the highest quality game updates, because sooner or later they will run out of funds, and/or not use their funds efficiently. 

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On 7/26/2017 at 2:33 AM, Tinnis said:

CF_Race-and-Class-Combos-1024x576.jpg

Knight and Cleric simply don't fit for Guinecean. Champion, assasin, confessor would sound all bettor for me. I can't imagine how so small pig can resist a mighty blow for half giant. Are these races already in game?

 

Mercenary guild is recruiting. Send me a message if you are interested.

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