Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Pann

UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread

Recommended Posts

Another option, which might be too big of a change to be feasible, would be to give VIP accounts two separate Profession training lines. Upon entering a vessel for the first time, players would pick one of those lines, and the vessel would be locked into that line.

This would give VIP accounts exactly the same kind of Profession training as players would have had with two non-VIP accounts, while still giving them the benefit of more race/class combinations.

From a lore standpoint, it would represent the crow having too much knowledge to be contained within the memories of the vessel, and thus having to choose what skills it retains when it enters its corporeal form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Verot I don't know why they are doing this all of a sudden. Before it was just that you had to go online to click your skills and I understood that VIP had an advantage there because non-vip were forced to stand up at night and train their skills but right now they are giving VIPs a direct advantage. Before VIP was only making the game play more comfortable. I cannot really understand the reason behind this sudden change (Good game will sell anyhow and you do not need to give certain ppl an advantage so they feel better and will play the game because they can dominate it; I mean it is not that far in CW right now but if AC is changing so much stuff with VIP ppl might thinkg they are intending to make VIP even stronger in the future).

For me its seems they want to advertise "buy and play" but most people will most likely feel needing VIP so its kind of a subscription fee. In the end they don't want to advertise "subscription fee" needed because they hope to draw people to game since it is only "buy and play". I just hope most ppl don't feel disappointed after buying the game and will inform them before they do about VIP and Non-VIP.


I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not particularly against the change they made to VIP. Personally I think for what you are getting, its not a lot to ask $15 a month to play a game especially for most players who will be devoting a significant portion of their free time playing it. I have more of a problem with the Skill Tome system as currently explained. If you look at it from a $/EntertainmentHr then $15 is a bargain compared to most other forms of entertainment. I planned on being a VIP player from the start so the changes are welcome by me because it still provides tons of options especially if they allow you to train multiple trees in the same profession. Some players will be specialists and train 2 trees in one profession (Weapons/Armor) some players will be more hybrid for convenience (Combat/Harvesting, or Crafting/Harvesting). It does not make players and island unto themselves because of the branching nature of all of the trees, however it does provide some options not available to non-vip players. I will not pretend that the new VIP does not constitute an advantage and that is just more options, it most definitely does provide a power advantage regardless if they allow players to double train 1 profession (Armor/Weapons) or force 2 separate professions.

The game requires funding and VIP as suggested provides a very compelling incentive to get players to purchase it. Is it P2W? In its more conservative definition, yes. However that P2W advantage is capped at just $15 a month, which is well within the reach of almost all players who were going to be dedicating 10+ hours a week towards the game anyway. Now, the major problem with the Skill Tomes, is it removed the $15 cap of advantage and basically makes it full bore P2W (the bad kind).

I understand players instant reaction to anything P2W, and purists will never be willing to accept any level of P2W no matter how benign. Well, the game needs to be funded and someone has to pay the ongoing staff/infrastructure/maintenance bills. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only major issue I see with this skill system reveal is that subscribers get two professions skills that can then be used on profession skills that overlap such as weapons and armor. Being able to train both in armor and weapons, where a non-VIP can only train in weapons, would be overpowered. This is an issue with the tomes as well.

I would also like to see a skill cap based on possible playable hours since the game was released. This would mean anyone could catch up, but never exceed it.

Edited by frozenshadow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Pann thank you for the write up ;)

i really like the whole system, but it needs some adjustments in the combat sector because it shouldnt be allowed to train amor and weapons at the same time.

Question: What happend with the Siege and Stealthed tree ?


rUQlYHs.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DravoiX said:

@Pann thank you for the write up ;)

i really like the whole system, but it needs some adjustments in the combat sector because it shouldnt be allowed to train amor and weapons at the same time.

Question: What happend with the Siege and Stealthed tree ?

According to the stream, the only things they show are working, so since siege and stealth don't have working code, and used to be just placeholders, so they don't show up yet.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/7/2017 at 4:23 PM, jtoddcoleman said:

Good catch and valid criticism of current table design.  We'll need to address this.

Todd

 

To address this, maybe you could break skills down into 5 top level categories like you have them in the “windows explorer” (Combat, Crafting, Exploration, Race, and Class).

Everyone gets one training slot in each of the skill categories. If you want to specialize, you can forego training in up to two categories in favor of training a second or third skill in another category, though there would be diminishing returns in applying the cross-category training slots (say 75% and 50% skill rate, to throw some numbers out there). This would allow anyone (even non-VIP) to specialize and “double dip.”

VIP gets you access to additional training slots for Race and Class (one each, at 100% rate) with the same skill tree restrictions as you initially described. 

VIP gets you access to one additional training slot that can be applied (at 100% rate) to either of the Combat, Crafting, or Exploration categories. 

As a VIP, you still would be limited to training no more than 3 skills in any one category.

I am not sure this fully solves the issue of vertical training... but it seems to address at least some of the issue. 


The Shipwrecked Pirates

yarrr....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, virt said:

To address this, maybe you could break skills down into 5 top level categories like you have them in the “windows explorer” (Combat, Crafting, Exploration, Race, and Class).

Everyone gets one training slot in each of the skill categories. If you want to specialize, you can forego training in up to two categories in favor of training a second or third skill in another category, though there would be diminishing returns in applying the cross-category training slots (say 75% and 50% skill rate, to throw some numbers out there). This would allow anyone (even non-VIP) to specialize and “double dip.”

VIP gets you access to additional training slots for Race and Class (one each, at 100% rate) with the same skill tree restrictions as you initially described. 

VIP gets you access to one additional training slot that can be applied (at 100% rate) to either of the Combat, Crafting, or Exploration categories. 

As a VIP, you still would be limited to training no more than 3 skills in any one category.

I am not sure this fully solves the issue of vertical training... but it seems to address at least some of the issue. 

The purists will call this P2W. Diminished or not the end result is $ let you do what non-vip players can't, so in the strictest of definitions it is P2W. As stated previously I don't have a problem with the 2/2/2 model for VIP even with double dipping different trees in the same profession.

Edited by Verot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is mentioning combat...

Same should apply to crafting/exploration as well.

Easier still - just make the 2 x skills train at different speeds.. 1 at the same rate as now. 1 at a MUCH slower speed...

 

 


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Everyone is mentioning combat...

Same should apply to crafting/exploration as well.

Easier still - just make the 2 x skills train at different speeds.. 1 at the same rate as now. 1 at a MUCH slower speed...

 

 

$15 is not too much to ask for people who will be spending 10+ hours a week in a game. If you are not spending that kind of time in the game then you were not going to be as effective as the other VIP players anyway. If you don't want to spend the money then just trade for the VIP with other in game resources.

Is the new VIP P2W? In the purest sense of P2W, yes.

This is a very benign form of P2W. First it is limited in scope and terms of power. It is capped at $15 a month, and is available for cash or as a traded commodity in game. It solves the funding issues for ACE as it is a limited/expiring commodity which will require players to keep buying more.

Also, if you restrict VIP too much then you no longer have an incentive for buying VIP and will instead just buy an alt account. A one time $30 charge for an alt account is not as beneficial to ACE as having someone pay $15 for the life of their account.

Edited by Verot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Verot said:

$15 is not too much to ask for people who will be spending 10+ hours a week in a game. If you are not spending that kind of time in the game then you were not going to be as effective as the other VIP players anyway. If you don't want to spend the money then just trade for the VIP with other in game resources.

Is the new VIP P2W? In the purest sense of P2W, yes.

This is a very benign form of P2W. First it is limited in scope and terms of power. It is capped at $15 a month, and is available for cash or as a traded commodity in game. It solves the funding issues for ACE as it is a limited/expiring commodity which will require players to keep buying more.

Also, if you restrict VIP too much then you no longer have an incentive for buying VIP and will instead just buy an alt account. A one time $30 charge for an alt account is not as beneficial to ACE as having someone pay $15 for the life of their account.

Who is talking about what I want to spend or dont want to spend?  What on earth does that have to do with anything.

 

If anything Im saying - limit the VIP to be - services of comfort.  Like was said they would be from the start.  Where as not the P2W it is move towards.

 

There are other ways to incentive to buy VIP - whoch dont include double general training.  Allow for race x2 and so on... just -not- general.

 

As for alts. If u want them, get them.  I really dont care.


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Everyone is mentioning combat...

Same should apply to crafting/exploration as well.

Easier still - just make the 2 x skills train at different speeds.. 1 at the same rate as now. 1 at a MUCH slower speed...

 

 

I don't think this need to be "solved", but a different option, possibly simpler to code, would be for VIP to only allow 1/1/1 trained, and the second 1/1/1 to be pushed into tomes directly.

Tome time is recovered with diminishing returns, so if you elect to focus rather than spread it around, you would automatically trigger higher diminishing returns.

I suspect the whole "different training times under specific conditions" would be a new system, personally I hate everything time/date related when I code, and would be more expensive for ACE to code than working within existing systems, not to mention both changes would be harder to explain.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol ... the purest form of P2W.  :lol:

You do realize that in order to be Pay to Win, you actually have to win.  Double training does not give you double the advantage in PvP or in crafting.  Right now, we are talking about very small advantages for all that extra training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Who is talking about what I want to spend or dont want to spend?  What on earth does that have to do with anything.

 

If anything Im saying - limit the VIP to be - services of comfort.  Like was said they would be from the start.  Where as not the P2W it is move towards.

 

There are other ways to incentive to buy VIP - whoch dont include double general training.  Allow for race x2 and so on... just -not- general.

 

As for alts. If u want them, get them.  I really dont care.

You do understand that double training in the race/class lines provides the same benefit right? I'll get to train the base race node to 50% then train the next tree while also training the base tree to completion. I'm still getting more power than non-vip.......

Edited by Verot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, zolaz said:

lol ... the purest form of P2W.  :lol:

You do realize that in order to be Pay to Win, you actually have to win.  Double training does not give you double the advantage in PvP or in crafting.  Right now, we are talking about very small advantages for all that extra training.

I completely agree, maybe we should call it pay for power? P4P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, zolaz said:

lol ... the purest form of P2W.  :lol:

You do realize that in order to be Pay to Win, you actually have to win.  Double training does not give you double the advantage in PvP or in crafting.  Right now, we are talking about very small advantages for all that extra training.

Not to mention you CAN get the VIP without dropping a single dollar, because it's a tradable commodity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize that fully.

 

They just dont get professions and abilites related to harvesting/crafting other than what the racials are.

 

This would put at least something back into choices matter and leave enough for wanting VIP


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get how people will be ok with letting someone train 2 class/race trees at once but are vehemently against training two professions at once, be it with or without double dipping the profession.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...