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Pann

UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread

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Interesting! I was just about to make a post about how important a proper catchup mechanic is at launch and that "Future Todd and Blair" better get on that. Seems like they were one step ahead of me as is usual for time travellers. Wonder if it'll be at all similar to my own thoughts.

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We will have the video uploaded to YouTube later today. I am also working on a write-up for those who prefer skimming news articles over watching videos. A new Skills FAQ will be published in the next week or so. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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On 9/7/2017 at 7:45 PM, Tinnis said:

i'll remain neutral on the "controversy" but my one comment would be:

- cap how often any tome can be used on an account e.g. 1 per week or whatever

I'd rather they just didn't let people have more time trained than the game was live. That would still make it a catch up mechanic, but would make abuse not possible.

 

Edit: This obviously wasn't well thought out by me, VIP will have more time trained than the game was live... accounting for VIP, combined with the respec possibilities sounds like pay to win... So clearly I had a bad idea there, maybe best is the way they decided with diminishing returns. But not just on the tree your in, but also on your total training time, making it even harder to misuse it.

Edited by BDr

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37 minutes ago, Pann said:

We will have the video uploaded to YouTube later today. I am also working on a write-up for those who prefer skimming news articles over watching videos. A new Skills FAQ will be published in the next week or so. 

Can u write down something to the tome machanic didn't get that system sorry was showing up later

Edited by DravoiX

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13 minutes ago, DravoiX said:

Can u write down something to the tome machanic didn't get that system sorry was showing up later

If you "over train" a skill tree (e.g. leave a node training at 100% or whatever) - the hours go into your "time bank" [24 hours for non VIP or 30 days for VIP]

you can either

- use that time ONLY in the same sub tree for your next training

- move the time into a "tome" - which is an item that can be traded:
- - again the time into that tome is only relevant into an exact skill tree (so 70+ different tomes)
- - has diminishing returns when used based on how far into a tree someone is, so not very effective the deeper into a tree someone is
- - they need to have reached the relevant tree the normal way too.

Edited by Tinnis

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Yeah but gives u a tome 100% ? @Tinnis or only time for that skill that u are working like:

I have a skill harvesting ore copper (blentiful) that I started it now and it takes 12 days to completely finish. When I'm using a tome did I finish it completely or can I decide how many time I want invest. And what happened with the rest time ? Can I go to the next spell ? Need the training with a tome the same time like normal training or longer ?


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1 minute ago, DravoiX said:

Yeah but gives u a tome 100% ? @Tinnis or only time for that skill that u are working like:

I have a skill harvesting ore copper (blentiful) that I started it now and it takes 12 days to completely finish. When I'm using a tome did I finish it completely or can I decide how many time I want invest. And what happened with the rest time ? Can I go to the next spell ? Need the training with a tome the same time like normal training or longer ?

A Tome provides up to 72hours of training...with Diminishing Returns. At 0% Trained using a Tome for that Skill would be 72 hours worth...at 50% it would only be 36 hours worth.

As for using the Time Bank yourself you can use what Time is Built to progress in that Skill Tree (up to 24 hours stored for non VIP, 30 days for VIP)

Edited by Scorn

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Just now, DravoiX said:

@Scorn so a tome has only a one time usage ? On only one skill ?

I believe so...to 'make' a 72 hour Tome an Account would have to accumulate 72 hours of TimeBank (Training time not actually Training)
I got the idea that consuming a Tome added to an Account's TimeBank in that Skill Tree

I'm not quite sure though if it's limited to 1 skill or just used to add to the Consumers TimeBank for that Tree
 

 


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1 minute ago, Scorn said:

I believe so...to 'make' a 72 hour Tome an Account would have to accumulate 72 hours of TimeBank (Training time not actually Training)
I got the idea that consuming a Tome added to an Account's TimeBank in that Skill Tree

I'm not quite sure though if it's limited to 1 skill or just used to add to the Consumers TimeBank for that Tree
 

 

U need 72 hours of over training or ? So no progress for me. How is doing that only for a other dude. It's like u are crashing your car to repair the other


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16 minutes ago, DravoiX said:

@Scorn so a tome has only a one time usage ? On only one skill ?

 

13 minutes ago, Scorn said:

I believe so...to 'make' a 72 hour Tome an Account would have to accumulate 72 hours of TimeBank (Training time not actually Training)
I got the idea that consuming a Tome added to an Account's TimeBank in that Skill Tree

I'm not quite sure though if it's limited to 1 skill or just used to add to the Consumers TimeBank for that Tree

from what i understand any hours you put into a bank or tome are only usuable for the specific sub tree it came from

e.g. can only use it in the "Elf" tree etc 

Edited by Tinnis

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@jtoddcoleman I really like everything you came up with, with one exception:

We should be allowed to train 2 skills in general, as listed, but only 1 in each category (combat / exploration / crafting) instead of allowing 1 per tree.  Making that one simple change would fix the only concern I have.

I love that I can harvest and pvp on the same account now.... except that when I get past combat basics, I'll be forced to train weapons and armor in order to keep up with the Joneses.  I can personally alleviate that decision a little bit by using my 5 alt accounts (all of which have VIP) to create 72-hour exploration tomes to feed my main (with 5, I can stagger when I pass specific skill tomes off, for a relatively efficient gain).   If you allow only one train in each category, you remove the incentive for this to happen, and fix the only thing that appears problematic with the skills / VIP / Tomes systems.

 

Edited by durenthal

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I think the major contradiction in what you guys said during the Stream is that VIP gives only lateral progression and width of options. Blair gave an example at the end of the Stream explicitly stating a VIP could opt to put both of his profession trainings inside the Combat category, in two different combat trees. That's a vertical advantage. Those stats will all add up on the same avatar. Armor + weapons, ranger having 1h + ranged at the same time, etc. 

An easy solution would be to limit your two Profession trainings to be spent on separate categories only (combat/crafting/exploration). Do not allow VIPs to double dip. They can still spend $$ on tomes from alts or other players to double dip, but at least diminishing returns limits the extent to which they can do that a little more. Not ideal IMO, but better than what we have now with VIP double dipping. 

Edited by Rikutatis

 

 

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Anything I say in this post is my personal point of view on the announced changes and should be taken in as just that.

 

You didn't "hit the nail on the head" you attempted to screw it in with a screwdriver.

  1. My first issue is with balancing and how you expect to balance 70+ trees containing 20-30 upgrades each with /5 pip states through the entire life of the game? That's never going to happen so you may as well kissing balancing goodbye for the most part.
  2. The last method of training worked well, you got to choose between combat/crafting forcing players to really think about what they want to be in Crowfall. Sure that makes it a lot more irreversible for the more casual player but this can be solved with respec mechanics post game launch.
  3. Previously you could train 3 classes independently from each other meaning I could play my Assassin main but also level my Cleric and Confessor along side it at the same progression rate however that is no longer the case and I have to chose between melee/ranged/tank? I already have 1 dps character why do I need another? (This change alone just ruined one of the most modern advantages of your game because NO one wants to level anymore).
  4. Race training just doesn't need to be a thing, I don't care how much time or effort you've put into developing it just shouldn't matter. You already have enough diversity in your races via bloodline passives etc you don't need to make things more complicated by watering it down into training. The note I wrote concerning this point while watching the stream was quite literally "class training is merged now while races are separated? It should be the other way around. ?????? wtf". I'd rather this be done with individual classes than races but once again refer to point 1.

Let's move onto catch up mechanics and your tomes.

This has been a big issue with Crowfall since I started following and I've thought about how you'd get past this hurdle so much that I even came up with a few ideas myself but I think you fell over the hurdle and face-planted the dirt. Meaning you can recover but you're a bit behind now and you've got to decide whether or not you'll keep crawling to the finish line or if you're going to take the time to stand back up.

You current plan for tomes is quite frankly stupid. It sounds like someone in the creative department thought of it and you ran with it either because you're short on ideas or you've actually lost your mind so I'll try to address some of the issues with it now;

  • The DR mechanics are useless to those willing to pay to progress so they only affect the less fortunate.
  • Tomes aren't valuable as a catch up mechanic unless new players know about them and/or have the resources to purchase them.
  • Blair stated that you need to progress to a particular tree to bank time for tome creation but this just means players with several accounts can bank t1 training tomes meaning their main characters can progress to t2 asap by skipping pips etc. These alt accs can also do this same method to progress to t2 training and beyond albeit with some downtime but the progression speed is noticeably faster in the end.

To fix the whale/alt problems I would suggest a time-cap solution, where no one can progress past the point of time since game launch. That way someone who's played since day 1 can be caught up by someone on day 7 but whales can't progress past others.

However in all honesty I would fix the entire problem by scrapping this method. I don't think tomes are the answer and I would suggest pivoting into another direction.

 

I also have a few questions related to the stream that I wanted more information on if anyone can answer them.

  1. Is the time bank activated when 5/5 pips are achieved or is it manually activated?
  2. JTC said something along the lines of "you as a none player can take advantage of this by trading tomes for VIP tickets"? Are the tickets a method being VIP without paying the monthly fee? @46m into the stream

p.s I don't think twinking means what you think it means. 

Edited by Midas

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18 minutes ago, Midas said:

p.s I don't think twinking means what you think it means. 

wikipedia disagrees with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

Todd

 


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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I also think that capping out training time to the duration the game has been out is a good move. The tome mechanic should be a catch up mechanic and not a way to buy power.

However I've gotten word that you guys don't have a system to track this and it's likely a non-starter. I would say capping the amount of tomes you can use per month would be a good move but then that caps the amount of catching up you can do.

It's definitely a tricky situation but even if you do nothing I don't think it'll be THAT big of a deal. With the diminishing returns and skill tree progression it's going to be fairly cumbersome and expensive to buy significant amounts of power. However I'm sure there will be a few MEGA WHALES that take tomes to the extreme but to be honest I don't think it will matter much in the end. 

The skill system is still a pretty minor part of your overall power at the end of the day and I think it's easy to forget that.

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